research behind eating more to lose more?

From several studies, you don't actually have to loose much fat. If the difference is really great, the body for protection will hold on to those fat stores longer, making them harder to use. Because from it's point of view, it appears it may be starving and it thinks it will need it.

So now slower metabolism, and using less fat, breaking down muscle now. Which is the best fat burning thing you got!

http://www.ajcn.org/content/68/3/599.short

We assessed the importance of lean and fat tissue depletion as determinants of the adaptive reduction in basal metabolic rate (BMR) in response to food deprivation by reanalyzing the data on BMR and body composition for the 32 men participating in the classic Minnesota experiment of semi-starvation and refeeding.

Taken together, these results in normal-weight men responding to severe food deprivation reveal anthropometric predictors for human interindividual variability in the capacity for energy conservation and suggest that the adaptive reduction in BMR is partly determined by an autoregulatory feedback control system linking the state of depletion of fat stores to compensatory mechanisms that suppress thermogenesis.

ONCE AGAIN, NOT TRUE, even the article quoted here does not mention loosing muscle mass.

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THIS REPLY IS ABSOLUTELY FALSE! You are NOT loosing muscle mass! Unlike the unsubstantiated anecdotal support for eating more to loose more, there is scientifically sound research done by the military that proved that the human body does not go into true "starvation mode" until you are down to 5-6% body fat, which is SEVERELY underweight. Read: http://www.healthscience.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=512:are-you-in-the-starvation-mode-or-starving-for-truth&catid=102:jeff-novicks-blog&Itemid=267 It is not how much you eat but what and when you eat that causes your metabolism to drop. If you eat complex carbohydrates and proteins in four or five small meals per day and exercise 10-20 mins 2-3 times a day your metabolism will stay up and you will continue to loose. I know because I have been loosing consistently 2.5 pounds a week since May eating 1000 calories per day and not eating back exercise calories.
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When you eat too little calories, your body will make a choice: lose body fat or lose muscle. An inadequately fueled body will choose to drop calorie-burning muscle rather than fat. Excessive loss of lean muscle mass leads to weight loss without improvement of body composition or health. It's as simple as that.

Eating too low will do two things to your body, you will lose muscle, and you will slow down your metabolism.
Anyone really looking into losing weight/body fat in a healthy way should go see a certified trainer and have a body composition analyzer test done. That way, you will know your BMR (which will help you set the amount of calories you need a day, to lose or gain).

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From several studies, you don't actually have to loose much fat. If the difference is really great, the body for protection will hold on to those fat stores longer, making them harder to use. Because from it's point of view, it appears it may be starving and it thinks it will need it.

So now slower metabolism, and using less fat, breaking down muscle now. Which is the best fat burning thing you got!

http://www.ajcn.org/content/68/3/599.short

We assessed the importance of lean and fat tissue depletion as determinants of the adaptive reduction in basal metabolic rate (BMR) in response to food deprivation by reanalyzing the data on BMR and body composition for the 32 men participating in the classic Minnesota experiment of semi-starvation and refeeding.

Taken together, these results in normal-weight men responding to severe food deprivation reveal anthropometric predictors for human interindividual variability in the capacity for energy conservation and suggest that the adaptive reduction in BMR is partly determined by an autoregulatory feedback control system linking the state of depletion of fat stores to compensatory mechanisms that suppress thermogenesis.

ONCE AGAIN, NOT TRUE, even the article quoted here does not mention loosing muscle mass.

I also found this, first link I saw but there are many many many more explaining why too low calorie intake will make you lose muscle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieting

I read this quoted article as well and the foot notes that it is based on states "Overall, low-calorie diets are a safe strategy for weight loss. A sample 5040-kJ diet plan based on Canada's Food Guide to Healthy Eating is outlined in the online appendix (available at www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/174/1/56/DC1). " again, no mention of muscle loss.

There is a confusion about "starvation mode." As MFP uses it, it means metabolic slow down. Medically it is the point at which human being begin to consume lean body mass (muscles). I don't argue that it is possible to experience metabolic slow down if all you are doing is counting calories. What I am arguing against is the possibility that it will cause you to loose muscle mass if you are over weight, that has been scientifically disproven. I wish MFP did not call metabolic slow down "starvation mode" because it leads to this kind of misinformation.

I guess it would be good to clarify, I'm not talking about the sedentary woman example. I'm talking about what seems to be the common folks on this forum, they are exercising. And seem to be doing a great job at it too! And talking about eating so few calories for the level of activity they are at. And wondering about stalls and plateaus that occur, solved by eating more calories.

Sadly it was the post concentration camp victims that showed the body is willing to burn muscle to hold on to fat. And it took awhile to break their bodies out of fat-storage slow metabolism mode, realizing the food is coming on a regular basis.

That's not the situation I'm talking about. That is not the situation for the folks working out here.

But are some reaching the same kind of calorie deficits, and slow metabolism, because of it? Causing the body to enter such a state? Sounds like it.

So while a 800 calorie difference between normal BMR and current diet level might seem extreme (say BMR is really 1200, and you eat 400 calorie day), some of the exercise quantity and BMR and the diet level could still be 700, 800, or 900 deficit, and the body reacts the same way. Spare the fat and glucose for survival, tear down muscle.

So now your metabolism slows. But you still exercise, and it can only slow down so much because of the exercise, so it slows fat burn and stores as much as fat actually, and since energy is still needed and glucose has limited supply, here comes the protein breakdown to use the amino acids for energy.

I think if starvation mode was term used for the sedentary woman eating 1200 calories while estimates put energy needs at 1900, that indeed would be metabolic slow down, not starvation mode.

Now have the woman exercising 700 calories worth a day (energy needs 2600), lower eating to 1000 calories, and you have some effects that will occur most likely, with avg person, the same as starvation mode. Especially if kept up for weeks on end.
Body will stop burning fat nearly as much, and calories in general with lower BMR.
Body will start burning some muscle, but not nearly as much as true starvation mode.
Weight loss slows considerably or stops from what it was before. Performance if measured probably slows too, or heart rate goes up for the same effort.
Now you start eating more, but it takes a bit before weight loss starts again.
Muscle has to be built up again while fat is being burned again - no weight change.
Finally fat is being lost again, and weight.

I have read with interest what you have all wrote. I will be trying to eat some of my exercise calories back. I am fairly active and am on my feet for 12 hour shifts which I dont log as exercise I am pretty sure I can manage to take something more nutritious to work and maybe eat a protein bar after working out. I know I would hate to reach a point that I stop losing weight. I am doing this to be healthier not make myself ill. I work in healthcare it wouldnt be the right way to go about it. I could easily bump up my calories by eating nuts and seeds which I love.

Thankyou for the active discussion.

bump

I have trouble with this aswell I have been successfully losing weight eating 1200 cals on average and I dont eat my exercise calories back unless I use a few for the odd drink. I have consistantly lost weight and lost 4lbs this week in 7 days which I think is a really good amount I do exercise more than I used to but. Still unsure if i should eat them cals back. If my body was on starvation mode I surley wouldnt be losing 2-4lbs of fat a week I have been eating like this for 8 weeks now??? Anyone who can give me advice too would be much appreciated.
Good luck on your journey hun.

The thing is - you aren't losing 2-4 lbs of fat a week. Only the very very obese (VERY obese) will burn fat at that rate. What you are losing is muscle. The more muscle you lose, the more total weight you will have to lose to get the body composition you want (aka look good naked).

30% body fat looks flabby and chubby whether you weigh 110 lbs or 170 lbs.

THIS REPLY IS ABSOLUTELY FALSE! You are NOT loosing muscle mass! Unlike the unsubstantiated anecdotal support for eating more to loose more, there is scientifically sound research done by the military that proved that the human body does not go into true "starvation mode" until you are down to 5-6% body fat, which is SEVERELY underweight. Read: http://www.healthscience.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=512:are-you-in-the-starvation-mode-or-starving-for-truth&catid=102:jeff-novicks-blog&Itemid=267 It is not how much you eat but what and when you eat that causes your metabolism to drop. If you eat complex carbohydrates and proteins in four or five small meals per day and exercise 10-20 mins 2-3 times a day your metabolism will stay up and you will continue to loose. I know because I have been loosing consistently 2.5 pounds a week since May eating 1000 calories per day and not eating back exercise calories.

AngelikaLumie, during your weight loss journey have you tracked your body fat as well as your weight? I ask this because you can't say you are only losing fat if you dont' what your body fat is. Also, look at any VLCD (such as HCG) and you will find common trends; that trend is significant weight loss, but 30-50% of that weight loss is from lean muscle mass loss. I know we can all read and quote studies and scientific findings, but I can also point out several cases of people from this board that did VLCD's and lost 50% lean muscle mass, which equated to a 30% reduction in metabolism (first link 3rd page is a prime example).

Now if you tracked your weigh-in's and body fat, I can clearly demonstrate a coorelations because your Basal Metabolic Rate (your metabolism) and loss in lean body mass. I will note, it is very possible to maintain lean muscle mass but that requires very low deficits and an intense workout program that includes HIIT and weight training. I know that, as I have been able to maintain my lean body mass while losing 16 lbs and 6% body fat. If you don't believe I will do the math later but I dont' have time.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/356410-hcg-diet?page=3

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/382578-day-1-of-hcg

I really want access to bodpod..

bump!