Why use a restrictive dieting plan...
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AGREE. Wholeheartedly. I lost 50 pounds few years ago because I ate the same thing every day and restricted so many foods. Needless to say, I gained about 30lbs back. Now I'm losing weight slowly, but I'm not restricting myself in a psychotic way. I was talking to a co-worker who avoids sugar and bread (who isn't diabetic) and I told her that **I** personally cannot do that because it is unrealistic for me to avoid chocolate cake for the rest of my life! Moderation and good choices lead to long-term weight loss (and pleasure with food!) NOT CRASH DIETS.0
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I'm guessing some people hard to restrict portions.
i.e. I can't eat just one small block of chocolate without eating the whole lot, so for me it's been easier to stop all together and now I don't crave it as much.
driaxx, I do agree with this. I think it's okay to restrict certain foods in the very beginning as well when you're trying to jump-start your diet change. Sometimes I'll avoid certain foods when I feel like I'm about to binge because just one taste will be my downfall. However, I indulge in certain foods when I know I can eat a moderate portion.0 -
I think it's up to the individual to decide what approach is best for them. I can only speak for myself when I say that I do restrict and outright omit eating certain foods. Why do I do this? Because for me, it's a slippery slope - Let's take Saturday for example. I thought to myself, yeah, I can buy a can of Pringles, and just eat a little bit. No big deal, right? Nah, I ate the entire can...and I know if I had another one, I'd go for that one too. I just can't bring that stuff in the house - when it's not there, I don't miss it, but when I have it around...it's just THAT much harder to resist. Does that make me weak? Maybe. Does not having it in the house at all help me stay on track and lose weight? Most definitly.
I think the trick of it is not to feel sorry for yourself when you say: "aawww I can't have that b/c im on this stupid diet." You're already defeating yourself by saying it that way. I think it also helps to have your friends and family respect your decision to omit certain things from your diet. Like my dear mother who, if I don't take a second serving, will pout in the corner b/c she thinks I don't like her food.
I guess I would describe myself as an "all or nothing" kinda girl. I wish I could moderate my "guilty" foods, but truth is, I would throw it all away if I did.0 -
You're comparing apples and oranges based on this thread. If you have an underlying medical issue, then that condition probably doesn't qualify for eating in moderation but a SPECIAL DIET.No, everyone does not overeat. Sorry to say, there are many, many obese people in this Country (U.S) that do not overeat. In fact, there are those people like me that have underlying medical issues and barely eat and by eliminating processed fake and processed foods are able to eat more and lose weight.
But if you OVERCONSUMED more calories than you burn and come in at a surplus daily, regardless of how you ate, you would gain weight. Or do you defy science somehow and are able to do this?I eat more calories now than I have in years and I can lose weight instead of gaining, gaining, gaining. However, I only eat fat, protein and the only carbs I get come from vegetables and some fruits.
They stand by it because it's what they believe too. That doesn't mean it's necessarily correct for EVERYONE.Between my 3 doctors, personal trainer and my chiropractor that has a background in nutrition they all agree with me about the excuses. I stand by how I feel.
Untrue. My family is from the Philippines. I left there in 1968 and even then they were eating canned foods, boxed foods, etc. Compare the average Filipino to the average American and you can tell even with the access to foods, that the majority are still with good BMI numbers.And most countries do not have that much processed foods until recently when they started importing American junk food and hence now the obesity epidemic is on the rise in these countries also.
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For those that are "all or nothing", you can learn how to control it through repetition. IMO, it's all or nothing because first chance you get at it while having restricted it for awhile, you'll take the stance that you won't have it again. Part of being successful for my clients is actually learning how to control portions of their favorite foods. Smaller plate sizes in the house, splitting up snacks in little baggies (and not eating out of the container itself) make it easier to learn. If you're WILLING TO DO IT, it can be done. Like anything else, you can't be convinced against your will, you have to make the choice to do it.
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I feel the same way..for me personally, restriction works and I don't give myself "treats" or rewards that are food related (see my profile pic!). If I have a strong enough craving for something, I might go for it, if I've worked hard enough in the gym that day or week, but I do have things I consider to be trigger foods and quite honestly, after cutting them out of my diet long enough, they don't even taste that good anymore. In my case, this works toward what I consider a lifestyle change (and my new lifestyle doesn't include pizza on any regular basis).I think it's up to the individual to decide what approach is best for them. I can only speak for myself when I say that I do restrict and outright omit eating certain foods. Why do I do this? Because for me, it's a slippery slope - Let's take Saturday for example. I thought to myself, yeah, I can buy a can of Pringles, and just eat a little bit. No big deal, right? Nah, I ate the entire can...and I know if I had another one, I'd go for that one too. I just can't bring that stuff in the house - when it's not there, I don't miss it, but when I have it around...it's just THAT much harder to resist. Does that make me weak? Maybe. Does not having it in the house at all help me stay on track and lose weight? Most definitly.
I think the trick of it is not to feel sorry for yourself when you say: "aawww I can't have that b/c im on this stupid diet." You're already defeating yourself by saying it that way. I think it also helps to have your friends and family respect your decision to omit certain things from your diet. Like my dear mother who, if I don't take a second serving, will pout in the corner b/c she thinks I don't like her food.
I guess I would describe myself as an "all or nothing" kinda girl. I wish I could moderate my "guilty" foods, but truth is, I would throw it all away if I did.
Everyone is different and if eating "everything in moderation" works for you, that's great, but cutting out things that offer no nutritional benefits doesn't always mean you are "depriving" yourself and that you'll fail and gain it all back.0 -
Amazing post and sums up exactly how I feel. Although I'm apart of the "anything in moderation" camp, it took me some time to get here, so I understand those just starting out who restrict certain foods. If they're constantly failing while restricting, then perhaps they should reevaluate their plan, but in time, they'll get to a sustainable place regarding their eating habits.Different strokes for different folks, not just with eating, but anything else. You can't understand it because you're standing at the north pole while they're standing at the south, so there's no direct line of sight.
Congrats on trying to change your perspective by inquiring though! Here's some thoughts:
Some people started from such a bad place they have no choice but to have a no-no list.
Some people are on doctor's orders.
Some people have "trigger" foods that it's best if they avoid if they don't want to fall back into bad habits.
Some people might even say they are restricting certain foods, but it isn't really 100% of the time. It's "under normal circumstances," but on special occasions the rules are relaxed. Some people like the idea of "cheating" so they create restrictions, just so they can "cheat!"
Some people also exaggerate their resolutions online, not because they want to lie to their fellow mfpers, but because making a public declaration helps them stay on the wagon (even if they have a few lapses here and there).
There are probably truckloads of reasons that either haven't come up yet or I haven't thought of.
Hope that helps! (^_^)0 -
My doctors agree with me on the whole everything is moderation is an excuse to keep eating junk food. My doctors have also told me if they had more patients that they would have to write a lot less prescriptions, but people don't want to give up the junk and fast food so therefore they have to keep writing prescriptions in ridiculous numbers.
You're aware though, that unless you're dealing with someone very specialist, most doctors (particularly GPs) have next to no training in nutrition... ?
I am dealing with my General Practioner who is Paleo, my metabolic Endocringologist and a Naturopathic M.D. who is also Paleo.
So, only one specialist and 2 regular doctors and everyone of them are clean eaters that abandoned any form of junk foods.
Paleo is extremely historically inaccurate and does not work for everyone. Someone eating a paleo diet does not indicate that they are a good source of advice on anything (except, possibly paleo). Which isn't to say that they can't advise on other thins - just that eating a paleo diet doesn't indicate anything either way.0 -
If you cut it out completely you will end up craving it even more and binge on it when you have the chance which is much worse then allowing yourself to have it in moderation.0
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If you cut it out completely you will end up craving it even more and binge on it when you have the chance which is much worse then allowing yourself to have it in moderation.
Or, as others have pointed out, you may break the habit and find you no longer crave/enjoy said food.
People have different relationships with food. Saying that everyone who cuts out a particular food will end up craving it worse and cave is not accurate. For some, yes. Not all.0 -
This.I'm guessing some people hard to restrict portions.
i.e. I can't eat just one small block of chocolate without eating the whole lot, so for me it's been easier to stop all together and now I don't crave it as much.0 -
My doctors agree with me on the whole everything is moderation is an excuse to keep eating junk food. My doctors have also told me if they had more patients that they would have to write a lot less prescriptions, but people don't want to give up the junk and fast food so therefore they have to keep writing prescriptions in ridiculous numbers.
You're aware though, that unless you're dealing with someone very specialist, most doctors (particularly GPs) have next to no training in nutrition... ?
I am dealing with my General Practioner who is Paleo, my metabolic Endocringologist and a Naturopathic M.D. who is also Paleo.
So, only one specialist and 2 regular doctors and everyone of them are clean eaters that abandoned any form of junk foods.
Paleo is extremely historically inaccurate and does not work for everyone. Someone eating a paleo diet does not indicate that they are a good source of advice on anything (except, possibly paleo). Which isn't to say that they can't advise on other thins - just that eating a paleo diet doesn't indicate anything either way.
Can you provide your source about its historical accuracy? I've seen a number of discussions regarding the paleo diet, but this is the first time I've heard historical inaccuracy as an argument against it.0 -
I think the essential thing in all of this is the use of the word "diet." It has come to mean: a trendy way of eating that is completely unrealistic to maintain in the real world. All "diets" work. All diets make you cut *something* out and you see results. Not many "diets" teach you a new way of relating to food. Weight loss is not about short-term, cure-all solutions, magic pills and powders and fruit extracts. It is a lifestyle change that you have to commit to and embrace.
For example: I knew what I had to do to lose weight: logically, I knew I had to eat less and eat better and move more. But I wasn't committed...for years, I made excuses (stress, work, healthy food costs more, the kids won't eat it, etc.) Then when I decided it really was time to change, I did it. I don't pretend to eat "perfectly": I'll never eat clean or vegan or anything that I know is much better for me, but I have changed my portion sizes and the way I relate to food and I do not deprive myself of anything. If you say to yourself, "I will never eat _____ ever again," you're just setting yourself up for disaster. Maybe early on, you need to cut it out (like I did with potato chips), but once you've changed the way you look at food, once you start really thinking about every bite, you can be satisfied with less. My kids still it's funny that Mommy counts potato chips and french fries.
But I told them that's what Mommy has to do to be healthier.
Eat to live, not live to eat!0 -
Good post. Relationship with food can someone's downfall or a strength. I would think that many family gatherings revolve around food, and if people don't want to go to them because they think they will fail at "dieting" then is that more important than actually spending a good time with the family?I think the essential thing in all of this is the use of the word "diet." It has come to mean: a trendy way of eating that is completely unrealistic to maintain in the real world. All "diets" work. All diets make you cut *something* out and you see results. Not many "diets" teach you a new way of relating to food. Weight loss is not about short-term, cure-all solutions, magic pills and powders and fruit extracts. It is a lifestyle change that you have to commit to and embrace.
For example: I knew what I had to do to lose weight: logically, I knew I had to eat less and eat better and move more. But I wasn't committed...for years, I made excuses (stress, work, healthy food costs more, the kids won't eat it, etc.) Then when I decided it really was time to change, I did it. I don't pretend to eat "perfectly": I'll never eat clean or vegan or anything that I know is much better for me, but I have changed my portion sizes and the way I relate to food and I do not deprive myself of anything. If you say to yourself, "I will never eat _____ ever again," you're just setting yourself up for disaster. Maybe early on, you need to cut it out (like I did with potato chips), but once you've changed the way you look at food, once you start really thinking about every bite, you can be satisfied with less. My kids still it's funny that Mommy counts potato chips and french fries. But I told them that's what Mommy has to do to be healthier.
Eat to live, not live to eat!
Life is to enjoy and not worry about a high calorie meal occasionally. As stated, if you're COMMITTED to getting a good body weight under control, you can eat things you really like and still attain it.
Now before the "exception" people jump on this post, stick to what you have to do, but for the "average" person trying to lose, learn how now and eventually you'll get it down. It does take some discipline and will power, but not as much as you really think.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
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Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Can you provide your source about its historical accuracy? I've seen a number of discussions regarding the paleo diet, but this is the first time I've heard historical inaccuracy as an argument against it.
Here's a bit of a starting point for you: http://paleovegan.blogspot.com/2010/10/problem-with-paleodiet-gurus-is.html
There's certainly no solid empirical base for this approach to diet, one way or the other.0 -
To a point, I have to be restrictive--I'm diabetic, and some things don't fit in at all unless I have SO little of it that there's no point. One slice of pizza parlor pie? There goes my entire carb allowance for half the day. So I've only had one slice of pizza since April, when I was diagnosed. Same goes for birthday cakes with thick icing and nacho chips with all the fancy dips--I've had each exactly once, and that was it for my carbs that meal. But for the most part? I've just found a way to work around things, to watch the numbers and juggle as needed to make what I want fit in with what I can have. Heck, I'm having pasta with parmesan romano red sauce and an Italian sausage for dinner. So, for me, it's not really restricting so much as it's keeping very close track. No thoughtless eating, everything is planned out in advance and carefully measured. In addition, I've found that "padding" my meals with veggies really does help with the portions issue--instead of a heaping plate of pasta, I have one serving, plus julienned carrots and squash under that sauce. So it looks and feels like a lot more pasta than it really is, and it tastes amazing. Every meal comes with a salad and another two veggies, so by the time I get to my main course, I'm perfectly happy and satisfied with a single, sane portion. Hey, this far into it, it seems to be working for me!
Kris0 -
No thoughtless eating, everything is planned out in advance and carefully measured.
^^^ THIS, exactly!!0 -
I'm guessing some people hard to restrict portions.
i.e. I can't eat just one small block of chocolate without eating the whole lot, so for me it's been easier to stop all together and now I don't crave it as much.
I agree that there are some foods I choose to not eat as a general rule. I started healthy eating about ten years ago, and while all things may be allowable, all things are not necessarily wise at any given time. This may especially apply in emotional situations such as a family reunion potluck when there is so much going on. I try to examine the circumstances and make each choice as it comes. Some things may be to hot to handle at certain times, and that's okay. 0 -
Good post. Relationship with food can someone's downfall or a strength. I would think that many family gatherings revolve around food, and if people don't want to go to them because they think they will fail at "dieting" then is that more important than actually spending a good time with the family?
Life is to enjoy and not worry about a high calorie meal occasionally. As stated, if you're COMMITTED to getting a good body weight under control, you can eat things you really like and still attain it.
Now before the "exception" people jump on this post, stick to what you have to do, but for the "average" person trying to lose, learn how now and eventually you'll get it down. It does take some discipline and will power, but not as much as you really think.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
What if the food is the only reason you go to the family event?
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This thread really reminds me of the book I am reading "The Thin Commandments" by Stephen Gullo. He talks about allowing high calorie treats in moderation as long as they are not a trigger food. Some people have issues with one or more foods where they can't control the portion size and eating it once will lead to binging and constant cravings. I have chose to restrict or "box out" certain foods that I have portion control issues with. Potato chips, muffins, baked goods and all you can eat buffets are my triggers. I am learning to recognize my problem foods based on past behaviors and it is actually a relief that I don't have to worry about eating these foods and battling with my willpower anymore. Perhaps I can add them back at a later time but for me, they cause more harm than good and I don't need to have them. I have also learned how to modify some of my favorites to make them lower calorie so I can enjoy them more often, as long as they don't trigger food issues and binges again. I highly recommend the book because it is very insightful. Even though I am not following the diet at the back of the book, I am still benefiting from the information.0
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Can you provide your source about its historical accuracy? I've seen a number of discussions regarding the paleo diet, but this is the first time I've heard historical inaccuracy as an argument against it.
Here's a bit of a starting point for you: http://paleovegan.blogspot.com/2010/10/problem-with-paleodiet-gurus-is.html
There's certainly no solid empirical base for this approach to diet, one way or the other.
Thanks for the link, though the author's argument seems rather fallacious. The argument with which he bases his entire post around is that those following the paleo diet believe that because chimpanzees (our closest living relative) hunt, then it's only right that we do, as well, and therefore, the paleo diet has no foundation in science. Either the author is sorely mistaken about the rationale behind the paleo movement (he makes it well known that his blog isn't about "dieting" and he considers the paleo diet a "fad diet," though, ironically doesn't think of his own veganism the same way), or he's deliberately setting up a red herring/straw man (he's a vegan, which may contribute to it, as vegans and paleos tend to butt heads and like insisting that they're right and the other is wrong), or, potentially, both.
If you have any other resources on the matter, I would love to see them, as I am genuinely curious about the arguments of the historical accuracy of the paleo diet.0 -
sorry dragon, it wasn't me making the claim about its historical basis, i was just being helpful, providing a link to the kind of info I suspect was being referred to. I'm a vegetarian, so have no interest in paleo, other than when someone tries to attack me for following an 'unnatural' diet or being evolutionarily misinformed.... And generally, I just raise a quizzical eyebrow at such individuals. As I've said before, I know there's no real empirical evidence for the effectiveness of the diet. Apart from that, it's one of those obscure corners of the dieting world that holds no interest for me.0
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I get what you're saying, OP. While I understand why people set these kinds of limitations for themselves, I don't really agree with the approach unless it's a change that they are trying to make permenantly.
I made up my mind that this change will be for life. I'm not looking at this as dieting. So along those lines, I refuse to cut out anything that I don't plan on removing for the rest of my life. Soda? I can live without it. Cheese, pizza, bacon, and chocolate? No way. So I plan on eating whatever I want. I *am* trying to make better choices with healthier food, but all the while I am aware that things like pizza or ice cream are not off limits. I just need to account for them within my calorie budget.
Of course there people who are genuinely wanting to make these drastic changes to their lifestyle and diet. That's cool too. I'm just not at the point where I feel compelled to remove all grains or dairy from my daily life. I can't say that my feelings on the subject won't change in the future, but for now I fully anticipate eating pizza, cookies, and cheese for the rest of my life. And the thought makes me feel a lot less overwhelmed about all the other changes I'm trying to make.0 -
I'm going to have to completely disagree with this one. I've lost 35 lbs since July by cutting out some foods completely , and haven't lost control and binged once.If you cut it out completely you will end up craving it even more and binge on it when you have the chance which is much worse then allowing yourself to have it in moderation.
I'm not saying I eat perfectly by any means, and have had a few days when I chose (planned) to eat something from my bad habit days, and every time, it tasted too salty, too greasy or just plain gross, and it ended up giving me a stomach ache later on, so just knowing that will happen makes it even easier to keep those bad foods out of my plans. A lot of people just don't WANT to give up certain foods, and that's fine, but different things work for different people, so there's no 'one size fits all' way to do this. Personally, I like that my body responds negatively to unhealthy food now.0 -
If you have any other resources on the matter, I would love to see them, as I am genuinely curious about the arguments of the historical accuracy of the paleo diet.
How about this? 45-50% of their daily kcal came from CHO. Also i fail to see how a Paleo diet is better then a non Paleo diet, as a non Paleo dieter can eat all the "Paleo" foods and all the non Paleo foods, giving them access to much greater range of food choices, nutrients etc
Eaton et al. Paleolithic nutrition revisited: A twelve-year retrospective on its nature and implications. European Journal of Clinical Nutrition (1997) 51, 207±216
"The typical carbohydrate intake of ancestral humans was similar in magnitude, 45±50% of daily energy, to that in
current affuent nations, but there was a marked qualitative difference."0 -
Some good responses here. I also want to add that there are other reasons people choose to eliminate certain foods from their diets besides just for nutrition, health, or taste reasons. And for some people, cutting out certain foods or not going to some places to eat is not something they consider "restrictive" to them. I have had people look at my diary and ask me how I eat so healthy so consistently, and I don't know how to answer it other than saying that I eat the foods I love to eat. I'm not eating "health foods" because I want to restrict myself.
And some people really do need to eliminate certain foods, at least for a while, to gain some control over the amount of calories they eat all the time, or to learn how to cook and eat a wider variety of food.0 -
Some good responses here. I also want to add that there are other reasons people choose to eliminate certain foods from their diets besides just for nutrition, health, or taste reasons. And for some people, cutting out certain foods or not going to some places to eat is not something they consider "restrictive" to them. I have had people look at my diary and ask me how I eat so healthy so consistently, and I don't know how to answer it other than saying that I eat the foods I love to eat. I'm not eating "health foods" because I want to restrict myself.
Im here with you. We just teach ourselves to eat better choices. Then it becomes second nature. Where I work, they have candy out all the time. Doesn't even phase me anymore. And may I add, once my body got used to eating right, eating wrong became a really bad thing. Body really rejected the food.0 -
Personally I cut out refined carbs like white flour, bread and pastas a year ago. Now I have lightened up a little bit on this over the past few months when I hit my WL goal. But I will still try to get pizza on whole grain or whole wheat crust. But occasionally I will just have a regular slice and enjoy it.0
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If you cut it out completely you will end up craving it even more and binge on it when you have the chance which is much worse then allowing yourself to have it in moderation.
This is just not true for EVERYONE. I cut out all refined sugars, artificial preservatives, colors, processed foods, white breads and pastas, and went to a clean eating plan. The first week was tough because I was used to eating so many of these things and not paying attention to labels NOT because I had cravings. I did not crave any of it. In fact after about 9 months and well past my weight loss goal I had M&M's my kids got for Halloween... I ate 2 and threw the bag away, they tasted disgusting to me, left a horrible taste in my mouth. I used to LOVE them. I have lightened up a bit (once my weight goal was reached) on the refined carb aspect but I actually prefer the whole grain options to it.0 -
If you cut it out completely you will end up craving it even more and binge on it when you have the chance which is much worse then allowing yourself to have it in moderation.
This is just not true for EVERYONE. I cut out all refined sugars, artificial preservatives, colors, processed foods, white breads and pastas, and went to a clean eating plan. The first week was tough because I was used to eating so many of these things and not paying attention to labels NOT because I had cravings. I did not crave any of it. In fact after about 9 months and well past my weight loss goal I had M&M's my kids got for Halloween... I ate 2 and threw the bag away, they tasted disgusting to me, left a horrible taste in my mouth. I used to LOVE them. I have lightened up a bit (once my weight goal was reached) on the refined carb aspect but I actually prefer the whole grain options to it.
I totally agree with you on this ^^^^0
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