Weight lifting -when to start trying for muscle gain

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  • MaximalLife
    MaximalLife Posts: 2,447 Member
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    What suggestions do you have for cycling diet?

    Eat maintenance calories or more on lifting days, eat your body weight in protein every day, and eat maybe a 10% or 20% deficit on rest days. High fat, low carb on rest days, high carb, low fat on lifting days.
    I need more info on this - sounds good!
  • Huffdogg
    Huffdogg Posts: 1,934 Member
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    Eat maintenance calories or more on lifting days, eat your body weight in protein every day, and eat maybe a 10% or 20% deficit on rest days. High fat, low carb on rest days, high carb, low fat on lifting days.
    I need more info on this - sounds good!

    Check out Leangains, maybe, or even just http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/. Even if you aren't using an IF protocol for your diet, the calorie cycling can be an effective way to build muscle and burn fat.
  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member
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    Check out Leangains, maybe, or even just http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/. Even if you aren't using an IF protocol for your diet, the calorie cycling can be an effective way to build muscle and burn fat.

    I'm a big fan of IF/Leangains but I also want to chime in that you can accomplish the same thing by recomping at maintenance.
  • Rae6503
    Rae6503 Posts: 6,294 Member
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    I started bulking (gaining muscle, eating at a surplus) when I still had 10lbs to lose. It was winter time and I was tired of dieting. It's really personal preference.

    But I'll add I don't think strong lifts is any more focus on building muscle size than New Rules is. Both are strength programs not "hyper trophy" programs (at least from what I've read and gathered, I'm not an expert).
  • deekaydee
    deekaydee Posts: 158 Member
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    But I'll add I don't think strong lifts is any more focus on building muscle size than New Rules is. Both are strength programs not "hyper trophy" programs (at least from what I've read and gathered, I'm not an expert).

    I think I agree with this....I was mostly looking for what to do after NR, and something that was a little "easier" (in terms of plan) -- I really liked the three compound lifts idea for each workout. I am loving NR, but think I'll soon be ready for something that is more streamlined, rather than starting NR over again.
  • Dkittery
    Dkittery Posts: 82
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    What suggestions do you have for cycling diet?

    Eat maintenance calories or more on lifting days, eat your body weight in protein every day, and eat maybe a 10% or 20% deficit on rest days. High fat, low carb on rest days, high carb, low fat on lifting days.

    Thank you for this answer. :)

    I would start building now and not worry about the scale. I was at 22% body fat about 5 months ago and according to my mirror and measurements I have lost more fat by building my muscle.

    I have been working out for three years and my trainer had me doing 3 sets of 10 with weight that I could handle, after a week, up the weight. This is how I accomplished this. And of course changing it what I'm doing every month.

    My goals have changed (want to do a fitness comp (figure)) so I am changing how I work out. I now need to gain more muscles. So I work out 6 days a week, some days twice. My new routine is go heavy in am work out and my night work out is light weight with many rep's.

    This works for me, you need to find what works for you. :) Everyone is different. Good Luck
  • ckapes
    ckapes Posts: 31
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    Muscle burns fat. You should be doing strength training all along:-)
  • tigerblue
    tigerblue Posts: 1,526 Member
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    This is EXACTLY what I would like to get some answers to, as we have it very similar! I too am 5'7", but my low weight was 156 a couple weeks ago and now suddenly it's back up to about 159 (I've been doing the P90X program with weight training for six weeks and am hoping that the stall/gain is due to muscle building/water retention). I have read so many different things about how I should be eating at a surplus to gain lean muscle mass but then I should be reducing calories to lose fat, etc. etc. I'm so confused! I too want to be around 135-140, maybe even 145 if that looks good enough with great muscle mass. Part of me says I should just back off on the weights for a while and cut the calories a little (I am NETTING around 1700-1900, which means that I actually EAT 2200-2700 on workout days, which is six days a week) so I can lose some weight again BUT I really, really do not want to go back to JUST burning fat AND muscle! I would rather stay at this weight and have some strength and tone than be just skinny and weak and flabby! But isn't there some way to continue to lose weight AND gain lean muscle mass??

    Please feel free to add me as a friend, as we have very similar goals! :)
    My height and weight goals are not similar, since I am shorter and probably smaller framed than you, but I'm in the same situation with wanting to lose just a few more pounds, but also struggling with wanting to build muscle, too. Like you, I'm up a couple of pounds, and hoping they are muscle! I'd love some answers/advice too!
  • ckapes
    ckapes Posts: 31
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    It is not what the scale says. Muscle is heavier then fat (which I am sure all of you know). That is why they recommend you take measurements as well as monitoring the scale. I have friends who have actually gained weight but dropped two or three dress sizes. The scale is a tool, not something to live by. If you feel and look good that is what counts.
  • tigerblue
    tigerblue Posts: 1,526 Member
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    muscle gain can be achieved even with a defisit. last pt assesment i had lost 3kgs of fat and gained 2kgs lean muscle mass - just make good food choices - high protein in every meal

    How do you know that you have gained muscle/lost fat? Even with my "fat measuring" scales, it seems hard to get a consistent fat reading. It jumps around wildly from day to day, so I don't trust it. I'd love to know how to get an accurate measurement.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,704 Member
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    Looking for advice on how best to achieve my goals....

    I'm 5'7, 153 lbs. My original goal weight was135-140, but I'm now thinking 145 may be more realistic since I've incorporated weight training. But, I'm still 10ish lbs from my goal and definitely have addl fat loss to accomplish.

    I'm currently eating at a 250 cal deficit and eating exercise calories, to fuel my workouts. I'm in the middle of the New Rules of Lifting For Women program. I lift MWF, and do cardio interval training, incline work, and usually one day of longish running (5-6 miles) on non-lift days. I am losing at the 1/2 lb per week rate. All told I have lost 28 lbs since August.

    I'm anxious to start gaining muscle, but really want to lose some additional fat before I do so. I'm thinking of continuing with NR thru the next 3 stages, then moving to maintenance for two weeks, then starting a slight calorie surplus and moving on to Stronglifts 5x5 or some other similar program.

    My question is, if I haven't accomplished all the fat loss I'm hoping for, will this be counter-productive? Should I continue at a deficit until I've reached my fat-loss goal? Or can I start building muscle sooner?
    You gain fat when you gain muscle. It's inevitable. How much you gain in fat/muscle ratio will depend on how you workout, your rest, and how you eat.
    Strong lifts isn't a muscle building program it's a strength program. You may build a little muscle, but to get effective muscle hypertrophy the reps will usually between 8-12 reps and the volume of sets high. You are looking to build sarcoplasmic hypertrophy and not necessarily myofibrillar hypertrophy.


    A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
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    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • deekaydee
    deekaydee Posts: 158 Member
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    You gain fat when you gain muscle. It's inevitable. How much you gain in fat/muscle ratio will depend on how you workout, your rest, and how you eat.
    Strong lifts isn't a muscle building program it's a strength program. You may build a little muscle, but to get effective muscle hypertrophy the reps will usually between 8-12 reps and the volume of sets high. You are looking to build sarcoplasmic hypertrophy and not necessarily myofibrillar hypertrophy.

    Okay, I guess what I really want is to see more significant gains in terms of weight lifted, so I suppose strength building versus muscle building. Should I continue on a deficit doing this program? I just feel like I'm not seeing many gains there anymore, or at least very slow, so thought I might need to move to muscle gain to do that.
  • Huffdogg
    Huffdogg Posts: 1,934 Member
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    But I'll add I don't think strong lifts is any more focus on building muscle size than New Rules is. Both are strength programs not "hyper trophy" programs (at least from what I've read and gathered, I'm not an expert).

    I don't know anything about NR, but you are definitely right about StrongLifts. I don't think the OP is specifically looking for bulk, though. I stand by my recommendation. Cycle calories, surplus on work days, deficit on rest days, something like StrongLifts is a good starting point. High protein always, high carb work days, low carb rest days.
  • Rae6503
    Rae6503 Posts: 6,294 Member
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    I saw a LOT of strength gains the first month or two eating at a surplus. I went from dead-lifting 65lbs to 140. I've kind of leveled out now though, which is disappointing (but I wasn't able to stay consistent with training through the holidays so that might have had some effect).
  • deekaydee
    deekaydee Posts: 158 Member
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    I saw a LOT of strength gains the first month or two eating at a surplus. I went from dead-lifting 65lbs to 140. I've kind of leveled out now though, which is disappointing (but I wasn't able to stay consistent with training through the holidays so that might have had some effect).

    Great, good to know, thanks for all the input!
  • Nopedotjpeg
    Nopedotjpeg Posts: 1,806 Member
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    Strong lifts isn't a muscle building program it's a strength program. You may build a little muscle, but to get effective muscle hypertrophy the reps will usually between 8-12 reps and the volume of sets high.

    I'm sure I don't know the intricacies, but how exactly is not gaining muscle when they're exponentially increasing their strength and eating a surplus of calories?
  • Huffdogg
    Huffdogg Posts: 1,934 Member
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    There is a marked difference between a program designed to build Strength (with growth in muscle size being an ancillary benefit) and a program designed to build MASS (which will generally also increase strength but not with the same efficiency).
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,704 Member
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    Okay, I guess what I really want is to see more significant gains in terms of weight lifted, so I suppose strength building versus muscle building. Should I continue on a deficit doing this program? I just feel like I'm not seeing many gains there anymore, or at least very slow, so thought I might need to move to muscle gain to do that.
    If strength is what you're looking for then stick to high weight low reps (6 and fewer are good). Overload methods with negatives help, however you need a good spotter with this.


    A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • kristyhooker
    kristyhooker Posts: 36
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    Both at the same time, lifting will help you lose fat.... but you will be gaining muscle, so definately you'll want to tape and not worry so much about what the scale says.... but if you keep doing what your doing and keep lifting you will actually lose the fat faster than just trying to do a bunch of cardio... and when the fat comes off it will look much better on your already toned physique!!
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,704 Member
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    Both at the same time, lifting will help you lose fat.... but you will be gaining muscle, so definately you'll want to tape and not worry so much about what the scale says.... but if you keep doing what your doing and keep lifting you will actually lose the fat faster than just trying to do a bunch of cardio... and when the fat comes off it will look much better on your already toned physique!!
    It's not usual to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time with the exception of a few people. In order to gain muscle there has to be a calorie surplus. But on surplus, it's practically impossible to lose any fat. So you usually have to choose which is most important to you first. Fat loss or muscle gain.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

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