Does anyone have a clue about custody laws in Canada?

molsongirl
molsongirl Posts: 1,373 Member
edited September 19 in Chit-Chat
My son's gf is expecting a baby in September, she fully excluded him from all Dr. appts, she's already said she will not allow the baby in our home, if he wants to visit his child it will be on her terms and when convenient for her. She plans on breastfeeding however she's a szichophrenic? sp? and on meds, I don't know if nursing is a possibility. She plans on using the fact that we have anywhere btw 12-16 kids in our care at any given time and that the baby would be ignored and not well taken care of. She has my son scared that if he fights for any rights she has no problem takeing the baby over 200km away to live with relatives, this would pretty much guarantee he would have next to no access. I'm sick to my stomach over this girl, and the situation, my son is 16yrs old, she's 20. My son is on anti-depressants and at one point had a nervous breakdown, I feel completely helpless, this girl works at McDonalds with him, and if he avoids her, she catches his attention by punching herself in the stomach, my son has called me to pick him up because he was so upset by her behaviour. I have tried talking with her, with her mom, to no avail, they let me know that this is not my concern, they've told me that they don't want any money, no help they would like my son to "disappear" this would be a great idea provided my son wants to be a dad to this baby, he's working extra shifts for us, and has a part time job at McDonalds. My hubby is a lawyer, however not in family law or even close to it, but i'm trying to keep him out of this mess as much as I can and wondering if anyone can help out, suggestions, ideas. I'm wondering if it's possible to have a custody order in effect before the baby arrives, or is that jumping the gun? Any help or feedback would be great.

Replies

  • havingitall
    havingitall Posts: 3,728 Member
    I believe that your husband would be your best resource here. He would have contacts that could get you good information. Anybody here on MFP unless they are a lawyer in your province, will not be much help.

    With that being said, in my limited legal opinion, your son is a parent to the child and has every right to see him/her. A lawyer would be able to help more with that.
  • arewethereyet
    arewethereyet Posts: 18,702 Member
    Wow, so sorry MG. That really sux. I dont know what I would do if I had flesh and blood I could not hold or love.

    I bet someone in the foster network could help you with simple questions about custody.
  • molsongirl
    molsongirl Posts: 1,373 Member
    Wow, so sorry MG. That really sux. I dont know what I would do if I had flesh and blood I could not hold or love.

    I bet someone in the foster network could help you with simple questions about custody.
    Thanks guys, lately my life FREAKIN SUCKS! we don't need any more drama, my nerves can't handle it.
    I didn't really want to get hubby too involved, he's fuming over "my" son...now that he's made a poor choice he's "MY" son, he thinks my son should turn his back, if that's what the girl wants..which floored me, i'm disgusted with him, so i'm not really talking to the diick right now! :wink:
  • FluffnStuff
    FluffnStuff Posts: 387
    He is 16 and the chic is 20.... doesn't Canada have statutory laws?

    The whole situations sounds totally messed up.
  • naugustyniak
    naugustyniak Posts: 836 Member
    Sorry you have to be dealing with this, especially after all you have been through lately. Be careful with her wanting him out of her and the baby's life. My sister did the same thing to her daughter's father. He wanted to help but she told him under no circumstances would she allow it. He even called my dad and offered to pay the insurance premium on my sister (she was in college) during the pregnancy. He backed out because she did everything she could to keep him out. She then got married when my niece was 6 months old and asked the father to sign over his rights to her new husband so he could adopt her. He did this thinking it would be the best thing. She ended up getting a divorce (only married a year) before her husband could adopt her. Fast forward about 8 years and she decides that she wants child support. Not only child support but back support. AND THE JUDGE GRANTED IT. So this guy (not saying he was a saint or anything but he did try) had to pay not only child support on a child he never got to see (he lived in CA then, she was in IN) but he also had to pay 8 years of back support. My niece is now 23 years old and a mess. My sister blames her problems on the fact that she "never had a father" or "her father abandoned her": It takes everything I have in me to not go off on her when she starts talking about it.

    You also might want to make sure the child is his. My daughter has a friend who got pregnant and told everyone it was one guy's baby. He moved in with her and started taking care of her and his mom paid for a paternity test and found out the baby wasn't his. He stayed with her anyway.
  • chica1090
    chica1090 Posts: 2
    I work for a child protection agency in Ontario..there are many concerning things in your post but first let's talk about rights. There is technically nothing you can do if there is no baby. Any good family lawyer should give your son and/or you a half an hour free consultation on the matter. If this means you guys have to shop around - then do it, your grandbaby is worth it.

    I TOTALLY agree with naugustyniak - get an order for a paternity test. In my line of work, I have seen far too many men think they are the father for YEARS and once my agency gets involved the woman finally tells the truth and sure enough the child is not his - I MUST REPEAT - GET AN ORDER FOR A PATERNITY TEST!!!

    In addition to the above advise - if she continues doing things like punch herself in the stomach, stop taking her meds - contact your local child protection agency. You can be anonymous and I hate to say it - if the baby is apprehended (taken from the mother) - you have EVERY RIGHT to exercise your RIGHTS as the child's grandmother - be it, visitation or presenting a plan to care for the baby.

    I hope this helps and I am sendind positive thoughts your way.
  • molsongirl
    molsongirl Posts: 1,373 Member
    Sorry you have to be dealing with this, especially after all you have been through lately. Be careful with her wanting him out of her and the baby's life. My sister did the same thing to her daughter's father. He wanted to help but she told him under no circumstances would she allow it. He even called my dad and offered to pay the insurance premium on my sister (she was in college) during the pregnancy. He backed out because she did everything she could to keep him out. She then got married when my niece was 6 months old and asked the father to sign over his rights to her new husband so he could adopt her. He did this thinking it would be the best thing. She ended up getting a divorce (only married a year) before her husband could adopt her. Fast forward about 8 years and she decides that she wants child support. Not only child support but back support. AND THE JUDGE GRANTED IT. So this guy (not saying he was a saint or anything but he did try) had to pay not only child support on a child he never got to see (he lived in CA then, she was in IN) but he also had to pay 8 years of back support. My niece is now 23 years old and a mess. My sister blames her problems on the fact that she "never had a father" or "her father abandoned her": It takes everything I have in me to not go off on her when she starts talking about it.


    You also might want to make sure the child is his. My daughter has a friend who got pregnant and told everyone it was one guy's baby. He moved in with her and started taking care of her and his mom paid for a paternity test and found out the baby wasn't his. He stayed with her anyway.


    Thanks for the info, this is what scares me the most, having him excluded, then her coming back on him...years later, I just don't understand her mentality righ now. To the other reply, we have statutory laws, if he was under 16 at the time of the "act" which he wasn't he'll be seventeen tomorrow. I met her a few times, he met her at high school, she doesn't look any older then 16, 17 and I never thought to question being they were only a grade apart, he's in 11 she's in 12. The reason i'm told by her, that they broke up is because I requested a paternity test, that I would fully pay for once the baby arrives, to ensure that if my teenage son is going to take on financial responsibility for the rest of his freakin life then he should at least know that the baby is his...maybe I was wrong, she said I greatly offended her, and broke it up with my son :noway: :huh: , makes no sense, she has already "miscarried" two pregnancies with two previous boyfriends, that i'm just finding out, and she won't allow him to see any ultra sound pics she claims to have, one other thing....I saw her two days ago at the McD's and their was NO baby bump, I mean NOTHING, she's maybe 6 mos or a little more, she's about 5'0 tall and on a good day 90lbs...there is NOTHING, I looked, quite a few times actually when she saw me and the kids come in, she pretty much sprinted to the back of the restaurant, but by that point i'd already taken a look, no bump. :huh:
  • arewethereyet
    arewethereyet Posts: 18,702 Member
    I have a very very thing GF at work who showed at 4-5 months. There is nowhere to hide it if you dong have some fat.

    So I would question even if she is pregnant.

    I cant even imagine being in that situation. That was one of my worst fears. A knock on the door with a preg girl or worse one telling me she was aborting my sons child. OMG I would die!!

    I hope it all works out. You sure dont need this crap right now:angry:
  • Sapporo
    Sapporo Posts: 693 Member
    If she is pregnant do whatever you can not to have her go through with the moving away threat. My friend pays mega child support for a kid who lives across the country. When the mother moved he couldn't do anything about it, can't see his kid unless pays for a plane ticket from Ontario to BC but still has to pay high child support. Makes sense that he can't forbid her from moving and child support is still a responsibility but the situation sucks.
  • keiko
    keiko Posts: 2,919 Member
    I'm going to pray for peace for you and your family as you walk through this time.

    But I have to say that after reading your description of this young woman I doubt she is pregnant. Like Jeannie said when you're that small there is no where to hide it. I was a skinny one the first time I got pg and people were talking behind my back before I even went to the dr. And I found out when I was 7 weeks! So yes by 6 weeks I was already getting a bump.

    I also know a young man who went through a pregnancy with a girl thinking he was the father. At her mothers suggestion a paternity test was done. He is not the father and is devestated. Him and the girl are now trying to see if they can continue their relationship or what. He loves this baby as does his family.

    I agree with the person that said to file an anonymous report with protective services if she continues to abuse herself and ultimately her unborn baby.
    :heart:
  • mszSHOGAN
    mszSHOGAN Posts: 2,277 Member
    I had my oldest when I was18 and my mom didn't want me to have his father be a part of his life. She took me to meet this lawyer who basically told me the father has rights but if he doesn't exercise those rights for a period of time (I believe it was 6 months) I could file to have his right involuntarily removed. She said if he made no attempt to help financially, see the baby, etc. for that period of time then the court would consider relinquishing his rights. I never went through with it though because I didn't think it was right to do to my son. I wanted him to chose to remove his father from his life. Since your son is underage I would definitely seek legal help because that probably complicates the situation. Its very sad to hear you story; so many women would love to have a man willing to step up and here is one trying to prevent that from happening! She sounds troubled. You can seek legal help without involving your husband - even children, youth and family services may be able to help or atlest point you in the right direction. I wish you the best of luck and hope that justice prevails!
  • getfitjane
    getfitjane Posts: 10
    sorry to hear that you guys are dealing with such a heavy situation. Please have your son talk to legal council in his area... whereabouts in Canada are you (province only)?

    many drugs are not passed through breast milk. contact your local La Leche League for info on that if you are concerned.

    if she is indeed pregnant and your son is the father, if he has not had a negative impact physically or mentally on this lady, there will be no reason the courts won't grant him visitation or even custody. The custody laws in Canada boil down to one basic tenet... what is in the best interest of the child. Right after birth, best interest of the child is clearly with mom for many reasons unless the child is in some sort of danger. if your son wants to have a chance to be included in the child's life and/or attempt for custody, he must be involved in the baby's life from the start. this can be granted simply by applying for such via family court. if he is the first to file a motion, the courts will note his earnest attempts to be part of the child's life.

    In Canada, the status quo is the other pertinent decider besides stability and safety. If a child has always lived with the mom or always with the dad, the courts tend to lean that way. If there are other children in the home, the courts are more likely to keep the kids together.

    I have done daycare for years and one of the hardest situations to see kids deal with however is the 50/50 custody situation, being 2 weeks at one house and 2 weeks at the other (as an example) . kids get confused and never really feel stable. sometimes this comes out in aggression or depression.

    if there is any reason at all to feel that this woman is putting the unborn child and/or herself in serious danger, filing a motion through family court is a very wise idea. it is important to note that this must be something really obvious and clearly dangerous or the courts will not take kindly to someone filing what they will view as a "frivolous" motion.

    the bottom line is what is the best for this child. if you all love this child, you will all find a way to put worries, frustrations, bias and attempts to have the upper hand aside and simply be there. be there with love and caring and help as much as possible. follow up with paternity testing which can be ordered before the birth of the baby if there is to be an amnio done.

    good luck to you and your family, the mom AND the baby. it's really all about the baby. :D
  • getfitjane
    getfitjane Posts: 10
    oh, and one more thing... if your son files for custody before she tries to move, she will have to attend court where the motion was filed and she will be prevented from leaving the region until the custody situation has been resolved... if the baby has already been born that is. i went through a custody situation and even though my child had been living with me full time for 8 years, i still had to get the court's permission to move 300 km away. I believe that is the case for anything over 2 hrs drive but don't quote me on that.
  • Girlmom282109
    Girlmom282109 Posts: 2,643 Member
    I would make sure that you keep all records of times he calls her so if the courts ask for it as proof you will have it. Maybe if he does call her call from a cell phone or something. Record it on a recorder. so the courts can hear that he actually is tring to be part of this babies life. If there is a baby. Get a court ordered paternity test. I had a friend who didn't show until 6 or 7 months and she was tiny. It just depends.

    Good Luck!!!
  • naugustyniak
    naugustyniak Posts: 836 Member
    I have a very very thing GF at work who showed at 4-5 months. There is nowhere to hide it if you dong have some fat.

    So I would question even if she is pregnant.

    I cant even imagine being in that situation. That was one of my worst fears. A knock on the door with a preg girl or worse one telling me she was aborting my sons child. OMG I would die!!

    I hope it all works out. You sure dont need this crap right now:angry:

    My daughter's best friend was very thin and graduated 7 months pregnant and no one knew. She hid it well so I think it depends on the person.
  • molsongirl
    molsongirl Posts: 1,373 Member
    holy crap....:angry: , i'm so upset about the whole situation. I've decided to move ahead and seek legal advice, I know no other option at this point. I don't want to take this baby away from her, I just want her to understand that he actually wants to be a part of the childs life. He wants a chance to make things right. I don't think she's being fair, by trying to make this decision for him, she doesn't have that right. I want to push my son forward and get him to file a motion in court requesting a paternity test, I know she won't comply if he alone asks...everything seems to have to be sooo freaking complicated with her. I know she's going through alot right now, honestly I think she realizes that it's not exactly a cake walk for our family as well....i'll keep you posted, he meets with a family law lawyer on Friday. I've also contacted a group here in Ontario, Rights for Fathers, hopefully when they get back to me, things may seem a little more clear.
  • chrissyh
    chrissyh Posts: 8,235 Member
    glad you're seeing a lawyer - sounds like the only way to get it settled. Good luck.
  • paddlemom
    paddlemom Posts: 682 Member
    I would make sure that you keep all records of times he calls her so if the courts ask for it as proof you will have it. Maybe if he does call her call from a cell phone or something. Record it on a recorder. so the courts can hear that he actually is tring to be part of this babies life. If there is a baby. Get a court ordered paternity test. I had a friend who didn't show until 6 or 7 months and she was tiny. It just depends.

    Good Luck!!!

    MG - I wish you all the best with this on top of all the other trauma you have had recently. Recording any phone conversations with this girl might be of real value in the long run. This is NOT phone tapping and is legal and admissible in court. As long as one of the parties on the phone (ie your son or you, depending on who is talking to the girl or her family) is aware that the call is being recorded - the other one doesn't have to know.

    My brother-in-law used this tactic regularly and successfully. He's a jerk, a chronic law suit filer and a pain in the *kitten*, but he's good at working the system! - but that's another story. The one thing I have learned from him, is that when you are dealing with someone who is petty but determined, you can never be too diligent about taking the steps to protect yourself.

    p.s. at the end of the day, be proud that YOUR SON has his mother's unwavering sense of morality in the face of truly difficult times. It's rarely easy to take the high road.
  • molsongirl
    molsongirl Posts: 1,373 Member
    I would make sure that you keep all records of times he calls her so if the courts ask for it as proof you will have it. Maybe if he does call her call from a cell phone or something. Record it on a recorder. so the courts can hear that he actually is tring to be part of this babies life. If there is a baby. Get a court ordered paternity test. I had a friend who didn't show until 6 or 7 months and she was tiny. It just depends.

    Good Luck!!!

    MG - I wish you all the best with this on top of all the other trauma you have had recently. Recording any phone conversations with this girl might be of real value in the long run. This is NOT phone tapping and is legal and admissible in court. As long as one of the parties on the phone (ie your son or you, depending on who is talking to the girl or her family) is aware that the call is being recorded - the other one doesn't have to know.

    My brother-in-law used this tactic regularly and successfully. He's a jerk, a chronic law suit filer and a pain in the *kitten*, but he's good at working the system! - but that's another story. The one thing I have learned from him, is that when you are dealing with someone who is petty but determined, you can never be too diligent about taking the steps to protect yourself.

    p.s. at the end of the day, be proud that YOUR SON has his mother's unwavering sense of morality in the face of truly difficult times. It's rarely easy to take the high road.

    She doesn't call..she texts my son relentlessly on his blackberry...can I save these? I have no idea how....can they be used if need be? she says some pretty mean things to him, this morning alone, she told him that just "maybe" he baby wasn't his...and that "maybe" it was his best friends..and "maybe" she'll miscarry because the women on her side of the family have a hard time carrying a pregnancy...wtf??:huh: why would someone want to be so hurtful, then the next text...she's like...."I'm sorry, I wub u"...that's what she wrote..."wub u" :laugh:
  • naugustyniak
    naugustyniak Posts: 836 Member
    I would make sure that you keep all records of times he calls her so if the courts ask for it as proof you will have it. Maybe if he does call her call from a cell phone or something. Record it on a recorder. so the courts can hear that he actually is tring to be part of this babies life. If there is a baby. Get a court ordered paternity test. I had a friend who didn't show until 6 or 7 months and she was tiny. It just depends.

    Good Luck!!!

    MG - I wish you all the best with this on top of all the other trauma you have had recently. Recording any phone conversations with this girl might be of real value in the long run. This is NOT phone tapping and is legal and admissible in court. As long as one of the parties on the phone (ie your son or you, depending on who is talking to the girl or her family) is aware that the call is being recorded - the other one doesn't have to know.

    My brother-in-law used this tactic regularly and successfully. He's a jerk, a chronic law suit filer and a pain in the *kitten*, but he's good at working the system! - but that's another story. The one thing I have learned from him, is that when you are dealing with someone who is petty but determined, you can never be too diligent about taking the steps to protect yourself.

    p.s. at the end of the day, be proud that YOUR SON has his mother's unwavering sense of morality in the face of truly difficult times. It's rarely easy to take the high road.

    She doesn't call..she texts my son relentlessly on his blackberry...can I save these? I have no idea how....can they be used if need be? she says some pretty mean things to him, this morning alone, she told him that just "maybe" he baby wasn't his...and that "maybe" it was his best friends..and "maybe" she'll miscarry because the women on her side of the family have a hard time carrying a pregnancy...wtf??:huh: why would someone want to be so hurtful, then the next text...she's like...."I'm sorry, I wub u"...that's what she wrote..."wub u" :laugh:

    I am not sure about blackberry but my phone has the ability to save texts and I think I might even be able to print them off. Call your service provider and ask if there is a way. KEEP ALL CONTACTS she has with him and your son with her.
  • keiko
    keiko Posts: 2,919 Member
    See what the lawyer says. But I'd be tempted to call the police. She is not a girl but an adult even though she is not acting like one. It sounds like she is using your son for whatever emotional kick she is getting by causing drama.
    I am still doubting that she is pregnant. I think it's something to torment your son with.
    There are some really messed up people out there and I think she is one of them.
    I hope the lawyer has some good advice for you on Friday.
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