Pieces of paper prove nothing

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  • BrettPGH
    BrettPGH Posts: 4,716 Member
    It's only evidence that they did enough to get a passing grade and graduate, it says nothing to them having actually learned or retained any knowledge at all. Just by having a degree in a subject doesn't necessarily make them more knowledgeable in a given subject then someone without one

    Yes, but that's evidence of more than someone without a degree has, at first glance. Once two people have made an argument you can examine each side to determine who's right. But if you want to figure out who might be more knowlegeable on a given subject you should put faith in those with degrees first, until they do something to prove themselves wrong. Discrediting someone's academic achievements beforehand for no good reason besides "Aww what does a degree prove?" is bad logic.

    If someone hands you a $20 bill for a stick of gum it COULD be counterfeit. Just because it looks like a $20 doesn't mean it is one. But we don't call the forensics team to analyze every bill in our wallets. We generally trust that the money we have is in fact money. There should be a similar level of trust with academic degrees. Otherwise what's the point? Don't ask a lawyer about legal matters, the guy next door MIGHT know more. Why ask a physical trainer who spent 6 years studying about exercise? Just see what people are saying on the internet...

    Having the degree is proof that at the very least you've put a certain amount of work into learning about a field. No, it does not automatically make you an expert. But it does put you ahead of people without one. You've proven that by earning your degree. They really don't just hand them out to anyone.

    I just hate where this argument goes sometimes. Some people like to act like having an advanced degree proves you are in fact NOT that smart. "I'd rather trust the guy I can have a beer with".. that sort of thinking. I really hate that.
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
    It's only evidence that they did enough to get a passing grade and graduate, it says nothing to them having actually learned or retained any knowledge at all. Just by having a degree in a subject doesn't necessarily make them more knowledgeable in a given subject then someone without one

    Yes, but that's evidence of more than someone without a degree has, at first glance. Once two people have made an argument you can examine each side to determine who's right. But if you want to figure out who might be more knowlegeable on a given subject you should put faith in those with degrees first, until they do something to prove themselves wrong. Discrediting someone's academic achievements beforehand for no good reason besides "Aww what does a degree prove?" is bad logic.

    If someone hands you a $20 bill for a stick of gum it COULD be counterfeit. Just because it looks like a $20 doesn't mean it is one. But we don't call the forensics team to analyze every bill in our wallets. We generally trust that the money we have is in fact money. There should be a similar level of trust with academic degrees. Otherwise what's the point? Don't ask a lawyer about legal matters, the guy next door MIGHT know more. Why ask a physical trainer who spent 6 years studying about exercise? Just see what people are saying on the internet...

    Having the degree is proof that at the very least you've put a certain amount of work into learning about a field. No, it does not automatically make you an expert. But it does put you ahead of people without one. You've proven that by earning your degree. They really don't just hand them out to anyone.

    I just hate where this argument goes sometimes. Some people like to act like having an advanced degree proves you are in fact NOT that smart. "I'd rather trust the guy I can have a beer with".. that sort of thinking. I really hate that.

    First using the PT example is a poor one as many of them are idiots and you're using bad logic by automatically holding someone with a degree in higher regard then one without, when just comparing two people side by side.

    What of the people like Bill Gates or any other successful people that didn't graduate from college? What about all the stories going around now about the for profit schools that are giving their students little to none actual applicable job skills?

    I'm certainly not discounting the value of a college degree, but I also don't automatically assume that by having a degree they are knowledgeable in a given subject
  • almc170
    almc170 Posts: 1,093 Member
    As someone who holds a master's degree and works in higher ed, I can assure you that merely holding a degree is not a reliable indicator of expertise in a subject. In fact, graduate education is often more about navigating academic politics than significantly contributing to a body of knowledge.
  • BrettPGH
    BrettPGH Posts: 4,716 Member
    First using the PT example is a poor one as many of them are idiots and you're using bad logic by automatically holding someone with a degree in higher regard then one without, when just comparing two people side by side.

    Am I? Example: You're being sued. Who do you consult? A lawyer? But why? Just because they have a law degree doesn't prove anything right? You have a lawyer and your neighbor side by side, do you really consider the two of them equals in the field of law? When you have nothing to go off other than the fact that one person has a degree and the other doesn't the smart choice will always be to choose the person who has proven a certain amount of experience in the field. That's what a degree is. Proof that a certain amount of knowledge has been obtained. IF the second person in question has qualifications that put them above the person with the degree than fine. But until that time the degree wins because it's automatically a certain level of proof.
    What of the people like Bill Gates or any other successful people that didn't graduate from college? What about all the stories going around now about the for profit schools that are giving their students little to none actual applicable job skills?

    I'm certainly not discounting the value of a college degree, but I also don't automatically assume that by having a degree they are knowledgeable in a given subject

    There will always be examples of people who are successful without degrees. Bill Gates never graduated college, Dave Thomas never graduated high school, etc. etc. These people are the exception, not the rule. They prove it's POSSIBLE. That's all. I never said it wasn't. To look at their example and say "Well that proves education doesn't mean much" is a fallacy. You CAN run a marathon backwards, that doesn't make it a good idea. You wouldn't say "Aw who cares about running forward! You can do either one, they're both the same."
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member

    Am I? Example: You're being sued. Who do you consult? A lawyer? But why? Just because they have a law degree doesn't prove anything right? You have a lawyer and your neighbor side by side, do you really consider the two of them equals in the field of law? When you have nothing to go off other than the fact that one person has a degree and the other doesn't the smart choice will always be to choose the person who has proven a certain amount of experience in the field. That's what a degree is. Proof that a certain amount of knowledge has been obtained. IF the second person in question has qualifications that put them above the person with the degree than fine. But until that time the degree wins because it's automatically a certain level of proof.

    You're using an example of a highly specialized field and an advanced degree, while i'm talking in more general terms. In your hypothetical I would most likely take the person with the degree. One of our sticking points is that I don't agree that having a degree necessarily confers a certain amount of knowledge has been obtained, all it says is that you did enough to pass and graduate, you can get through college with just doing barely enough to get by and not actually learning a damn thing.

    And this is a bit off topic, since the original point was to point out that bad advice given by those with degrees in relevant fields doesn't make it any more true then if they didn't have one
  • BrettPGH
    BrettPGH Posts: 4,716 Member
    You're using an example of a highly specialized field and an advanced degree, while i'm talking in more general terms. In your hypothetical I would most likely take the person with the degree. One of our sticking points is that I don't agree that having a degree necessarily confers a certain amount of knowledge has been obtained, all it says is that you did enough to pass and graduate, you can get through college with just doing barely enough to get by and not actually learning a damn thing.

    And this is a bit off topic, since the original point was to point out that bad advice given by those with degrees in relevant fields doesn't make it any more true then if they didn't have one

    I think it's something we've both been doing. Using extreme examples to either prove ourselves right or the other wrong. In truth we've both been saying the same thing most of the time. I agree that the simple act of having a degree is not conclusive proof of extensive knowledge on a given subject.

    Trust me I know. I didn't learn a damn thing in college. Unless you count learning to make a gravity bong.

    You are exactly right, bad advice is bad advice no matter who it comes from.
  • secretlobster
    secretlobster Posts: 3,566 Member
    Listen to me, I have a Master's degree in Penguin Physics and I minored in Undeclared
  • cassieko
    cassieko Posts: 40 Member
    Well I'm an RD with a specialty certification in Nutrition Support, so I AM considered an expert in the field and I DO know what I'm talking about... but I usually avoid internet nutrition debates because even though I know what I'm talking about, if someone is convinced of their junk science, logic and facts do precious little to change their minds.

    "I can't come to bed yet! Someone is wrong on the internet!"
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
    Well I'm an RD with a specialty certification in Nutrition Support, so I AM considered an expert in the field and I DO know what I'm talking about... but I usually avoid internet nutrition debates because even though I know what I'm talking about, if someone is convinced of their junk science, logic and facts do precious little to change their minds.

    "I can't come to bed yet! Someone is wrong on the internet!"

    I've seen seen quite a few RD's talk about the myth of increased meal frequency has a metabolic advantage and how one must jumpstart one's metabolism by eating breakffast
  • cassieko
    cassieko Posts: 40 Member
    Well that's just embarrassing.

    Edit: I guess there are dummies in every field. Some of the best nutrition advice I have read comes from Michael Pollan, a journalist with no nutrition degree.

    I can assure you I'm an excellent dietitian :)
  • jnance82
    jnance82 Posts: 149
    But everyone knows the unicorns became extinct because of crapping out rainbows.

    Rainbows are big. Things tore.


    :laugh:
  • Anomalia
    Anomalia Posts: 506 Member
    In my opinion a degree does mean something greater than "had enough money to pay for college". Sure there are some idiots with degrees who tell you crap and just smoked pot and cheated their way through college but there are plenty of people who earned there degrees and do have a large knowledge base in their area of study.
  • ericabrothers
    ericabrothers Posts: 115
    I completely agree. I'm an LPN and I've worked with stupid as hell RN's and stupid as hell Doctors. The fact that you have a degree doesn't impress me. Prove to me that you have a brain and are able to use it and not just memorize facts.
  • secretlobster
    secretlobster Posts: 3,566 Member
    Well that's just embarrassing.

    Edit: I guess there are dummies in every field. Some of the best nutrition advice I have read comes from Michael Pollan, a journalist with no nutrition degree.

    I can assure you I'm an excellent dietitian :)

    Michael Pollan also keeps his advice very simple, because a) eating should be simple and b) the concept of "just eat real food" is impossible to argue with
  • BrettPGH
    BrettPGH Posts: 4,716 Member
    Well I'm an RD with a specialty certification in Nutrition Support, so I AM considered an expert in the field and I DO know what I'm talking about... but I usually avoid internet nutrition debates because even though I know what I'm talking about, if someone is convinced of their junk science, logic and facts do precious little to change their minds.

    "I can't come to bed yet! Someone is wrong on the internet!"

    See that's the sort of thing I was railing against. The idea that "Yer fancy degree don't mean nothin'! I read this on Wikerpedian!"
  • JennieAL
    JennieAL Posts: 1,726 Member

    Michael Pollan also keeps his advice very simple, because a) eating should be simple and b) the concept of "just eat real food" is impossible to argue with

    Bingo. How can he go wrong with that?? LOL. Genius.
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