runners, help please! friend asked question i could not answ

godblessourhome
godblessourhome Posts: 3,892 Member
edited November 12 in Fitness and Exercise
a friend of mine wants to start running and training for an october half-marathon. she knew i was training for one so she asked me some questions but i had no idea how to answer her. i would love some insight from fellow runners.

she asked how often i run and i said 3-4 days a week as most of the training schedules i saw say to run a minimum of 3 days a week, but not more than 5. she asked why is that? i don't know.

then she said that she only had 2 days available for running and asked if i thought 2 days a week was enough for training? one short day (30 minutes), one long day (based on miles). again i don't know.

then she asked if she could train using the elliptical since it is low impact. again i don't know.

i don't see the harm in only training 2 days a week, but then again, i don't know the rationale behind running 3-4 days a week. i don't want to steer her in a harmful direction. i also don't see the harm in training on an elliptical, except that she might be training different muscles or that she might not be prepared for the impact on race day. i don't know.

anyway, help please me answer her questions. thanks!

Replies

  • Fernandomike
    Fernandomike Posts: 95 Member
    I've only been running consistently for about a year and a half. One of the things I read when starting is you need to run 3 times a week to achieve any kind of improvement. There is a cumulative benefit that you miss out on if you run less.

    In terms of the elliptical, I would think that if she wants to run a half as soon as October, the best route to go would be to replicate that exercise. I think she needs to get off the elliptical and pound the pavement.
  • jaxCarrie
    jaxCarrie Posts: 214 Member
    You know, I have not one scientific answer for any of her questions. I feel like 3x a week in good(muscle memory)...one day of interval (short), one longer run (like 2 miles more than interval but solid pace) and a long run at a slower pace to build mileage. I know some training sessions require 4-5 days (Hal Higdon I think is 4 for a half)...I've made due with 3...but 2 days/might be tough. Again, I 'think' it has to do with muscle memory and making sure your body knows you run and can run for the half distance? If it's her first, and her goal is to finish, you do what you can do.... not much help, sorry. But I know she can do it with 3 days...I did (and I just finished my 3rd half w/a 3x training program). 4x/week would hurt me (plantar).
  • jaxCarrie
    jaxCarrie Posts: 214 Member
    forgot to mention...elliptical won't replicate the movement/weight bearing of running. sorry. gotta pound that pavement/trail/grass!
  • kgarman
    kgarman Posts: 61 Member
    Running is high impact and the odds for injury increase with the frequency of running.
  • neuro316
    neuro316 Posts: 42 Member
    I haven't run a half marathon (I'm concentrating on 5K for the time being), but I've walked two so I'm familiar with the basics of training for one.

    I think 3x a week is a good training frequency for a first-time half marathoner. When I was doing my training program it was set for 4x a week and the trainers told us to at least try to do 2 of the mid-week runs, plus the long one on the weekend. I think if you decrease the frequency below that, you run the risk of your body really not being as prepared as it should be for the long runs.

    Also, elliptical training is NOT sufficient at all. It's good for basic cardio health (I do elliptical training regularly and love it), but if you want to run a half marathon (or even just walk one), you need to actually train by running (or walking). Run on a treadmill if running outside is not an option. A major part of training is getting your body used to "pounding the pavement" - low impact training is not going to give you the same results.
  • Pebble321
    Pebble321 Posts: 6,423 Member
    I've only been running consistently for about a year and a half. One of the things I read when starting is you need to run 3 times a week to achieve any kind of improvement. There is a cumulative benefit that you miss out on if you run less.

    In terms of the elliptical, I would think that if she wants to run a half as soon as October, the best route to go would be to replicate that exercise. I think she needs to pound the pavement.

    This sounds spot on to me. If she only has 2 days a week available to run, it's going to be really hard to get enough mileage in her legs before the half marathon.
    And I find think an elliptical is such a different thing to running on roads/footpath - it will help build up her cardio endurance but not her running muscles.

    Honestly, if it was my friend, I would suggest that she either finds a way to make time for more running (and to get out onto the streets or at least a combo of treadmill and streets), or she sets a goal of a shorter race at this point in time. You have to balance your life with your sport and it doesn't sounds like she has time for such a big commitment of time and energy.
  • muzmacol
    muzmacol Posts: 358 Member
    hi there, I tend to run 2 days the rest 1. Sometimes i'll do 3 and rest. For me its about recovery, legs, joints muscles, especially when your just starting out. I've seen folk run for 7/8 days then rest, but some of their work will be different, low impact, weights or spinning etc. I think training twice a week for a half marathon would be very difficult, though i'm not an expert. I restarted running on 4th jan ( i have previously been a runner) it has taken me 10 weeks + to get to 8 miles comfortably. The basic couch to 5k is a 5 week programme. Sorry i know nothing about elliptical, unless you mean x trainers? Good for cardio, not sure it would help your legs get used to the stress and strain of road running.
  • NiekaM
    NiekaM Posts: 5
    I am a runner, but am no expert in that department, so I cannot give advice. I ran 5 Half Marathons last year, and am currently training for one in 3 weeks. I run as part of my usual weekly workout routine, so "training" for me means trying to increase my speed per mile and increasing the number of miles I run weekly. I am currently running 30-35 miles/week (4-5 days/week) and try to fit in one long run/week (9-10 miles at least/long run). I could not imagine running only 2 times/week in preparation for my first Half Marathon. Mostly because running for more than an hour at a time is something that does not happen overnight, and requires maintenance. Of course, if someone just wants to run a Half Marathon just to say they did it, and do not plan to start running regularly, 2 days/week will probably suffice, but the time invested in those two days would probably have to be significant (like running fast for that 30 minute day and running at least 60-90 minutes on Day 2). I love the website http://www.active.com/. It gives running advice all the time and even provides beginners advice. i would suggest your friend subscribe to their email list and start reading first! Good luck and happy running everyone!
  • Kougra
    Kougra Posts: 358 Member
    If anyone is interested in starting to run....check out the book From Start to Marathon by Kara Goucher. OMG...it is such a great read. It is so motivational and it is more focused on loving to run and staying healthy doing it. It will answer alot the questions your friend is asking. Yes running is high impact but if you take care of yourself and pay attention to your body, the risk of injury is pretty minimal. I suggest reading this book. This will help with training for a 5k, 10k, Mini Marathon and a Marathon. I am currently training for a 10k at the end of May. You can get the book on Amazon.
    best wishes to both on your journeys! =^_^=
  • arc918
    arc918 Posts: 2,037 Member
    Two days a week is not enough running to support the mileage needed to run a half marathon. You need miles on your legs to keep you from getting injured. You need to training your body to get used to the pounding.

    3-4 day per week of running is what you need. 4-5 day is better. FWIW, I run 6-7 days per week.

    Here is a basic training program.

    http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51131/Half-Marathon-Novice-1-Training-Program
  • bstamps12
    bstamps12 Posts: 1,184
    Elliptical is not good enough. It can be used as cross training if she is already running 3-4 days per week and wants to be active on the off days. Like others said, it does not imitate the pounding you get from actually running. You can get by with running 2 days per week one week per month (recovery week) but other weeks you need to run 3 times per week. I just ran a 2:09 half marathon running 3 times per week, but I could never have done near that well without following the training plan.
  • trijoe
    trijoe Posts: 729 Member
    Hi. I'm a natural born couch potato turned runner/triathlete. And here are my two cents.

    Can your friend only "run" twice a week, or does this include working out twice a week? Because if she can only workout twice a week and she wants to run a half marathon... Well, I hope she enjoys being sore, and they don't have a time limit. If she can only run twice a week, then my advice to her is that's not enough, time to figure out how to bump those numbers up. And/or she should seriously consider a 5 or 10K instead till she CAN adjust her workout schedule.

    As far as frequency: If you run all the time, you run the risk of overuse injury. Running can be murder on your body, particularly your legs and joints. And, unless you've been doing it for years on end, it's very easy to do too much of it. So rest days in-between runs - especially long runs - is crucial to letting your body properly recover. Thus lowering the chances of injuries. That's why they say to not run every day. However, it's a always a good idea to cross train - bike, swim, lift weights, etc. - vs/ take those days off altogether.

    It's been said many times already, though elliptical makes good cross training, it doesn't replicate the motions your body will take on race day.

    Good luck to the both of you! Race days are just fantastic! I wish you both good training and great racing!
  • Hoakiebs
    Hoakiebs Posts: 430 Member
    Hi. I'm a natural born couch potato turned runner/triathlete. And here are my two cents.

    Can your friend only "run" twice a week, or does this include working out twice a week? Because if she can only workout twice a week and she wants to run a half marathon... Well, I hope she enjoys being sore, and they don't have a time limit. If she can only run twice a week, then my advice to her is that's not enough, time to figure out how to bump those numbers up. And/or she should seriously consider a 5 or 10K instead till she CAN adjust her workout schedule.

    As far as frequency: If you run all the time, you run the risk of overuse injury. Running can be murder on your body, particularly your legs and joints. And, unless you've been doing it for years on end, it's very easy to do too much of it. So rest days in-between runs - especially long runs - is crucial to letting your body properly recover. Thus lowering the chances of injuries. That's why they say to not run every day. However, it's a always a good idea to cross train - bike, swim, lift weights, etc. - vs/ take those days off altogether.

    It's been said many times already, though elliptical makes good cross training, it doesn't replicate the motions your body will take on race day.
    This...I'd recommend you get the Book, Galloway on Running. It has some great advice and plans to help you meet your goals. With her limited time availability, I'd also think she is better off trying to find a 10K rather than a half-marathon FIRST, then aim for a half-marathon some time later.
  • Trainee_Jane
    Trainee_Jane Posts: 9
    Jeff Galloway has a program where you run 3x a week, but he hasa day of walking to. (Run 30 min Tues and Thurs, walk Fri, use Sun as your mileage building). My Dad and sister and I are going to follow that and cross train on off days. Resting is key with training since running can be hard on your body. Your muscles need time to heal in between and running evry day won't do that.
    She can't find a half hour one more day in the week to run? For me, that's just getting up an hour earlier. Its not always fun, but it ends up giving me more energy in my day.
  • madmickie
    madmickie Posts: 221 Member
    I dont understand why your friend has time to do the eliptical but not run.
  • Lynnmi07
    Lynnmi07 Posts: 131 Member
    I'm going to start by saying I'm not an expert. However, she has 7 months to train for a 13 mile race. I think if she was very consistent with her running 2x a week for the next 7 months she could do it. But I'm saying run (not use the elliptical). Plus if she starts out slow and is only running 2x a week hopefully the impact wouldn't be that bad and as she trained her body would be more equipped to handle the impact.
  • scottb81
    scottb81 Posts: 2,538 Member
    she asked how often i run and i said 3-4 days a week as most of the training schedules i saw say to run a minimum of 3 days a week, but not more than 5. she asked why is that? i don't know.
    Based upon a study cited in Noakes' book "Lore of Running" 3 days is the minimum needed to increase fitness, the marginal fitness gained by increasing that to 4 days is great. The marginal fitness gained by increasing that to five days a week is smaller, but still significant. The marginal fitness gained by increasing to 6 or 7 days a week is small and the probability of injury or overtraining (especially in those that haven't run a long time) is larger.
    then she said that she only had 2 days available for running and asked if i thought 2 days a week was enough for training? one short day (30 minutes), one long day (based on miles). again i don't know.
    2 days a week is not enough. In the long run her fitness will decrease, or at best stay the same, on two days a week training. 3 days a week is the minimum needed to increase fitness.
    then she asked if she could train using the elliptical since it is low impact. again i don't know.
    That won't work. If she is training to run a race then she needs to run. There is more to the conditioning than just the cardiovscular fitness. There is also the act of running and strengthening of the legs.
  • godblessourhome
    godblessourhome Posts: 3,892 Member
    thanks every one for the replies. i will pass the information on to her. :) glad i got to learn something as well.

    i am doing jeff galloway's plan (and that is what i recommended to her - i did hal higdon's plan last year and didn't love it), but i forget that he has books. thanks for the reminder!
  • godblessourhome
    godblessourhome Posts: 3,892 Member
    Of course, if someone just wants to run a Half Marathon just to say they did it, and do not plan to start running regularly, 2 days/week will probably suffice, but the time invested in those two days would probably have to be significant (like running fast for that 30 minute day and running at least 60-90 minutes on Day 2).

    i'm pretty sure she just wants to run one to say that she has and then she will never run again. lol.
  • godblessourhome
    godblessourhome Posts: 3,892 Member
    Can your friend only "run" twice a week, or does this include working out twice a week?

    she swims 3 days a week and plays hockey twice a week, so i am assuming that she only has time to add 2 additional days in for running. i do not believe her schedule allows for adding another day, unless she doubles up on a swiming or hockey day.
  • godblessourhome
    godblessourhome Posts: 3,892 Member
    I dont understand why your friend has time to do the eliptical but not run.

    the question on the elliptical was about being low impact, not time.
  • heathero76
    heathero76 Posts: 8 Member
    I agree that a person can run a half by training this way if: They are in good shape, are doing quality cross training alteast 2 other days a week, and have no hopes of having a great finishing time. I'm sure there will be lots of walk breaks and a finishing time of atleast 3hrs. My 2 cents!
  • godblessourhome
    godblessourhome Posts: 3,892 Member
    she asked how often i run and i said 3-4 days a week as most of the training schedules i saw say to run a minimum of 3 days a week, but not more than 5. she asked why is that? i don't know.
    Based upon a study cited in Noakes' book "Lore of Running" 3 days is the minimum needed to increase fitness, the marginal fitness gained by increasing that to 4 days is great. The marginal fitness gained by increasing that to five days a week is smaller, but still significant. The marginal fitness gained by increasing to 6 or 7 days a week is small and the probability of injury or overtraining (especially in those that haven't run a long time) is larger.
    then she said that she only had 2 days available for running and asked if i thought 2 days a week was enough for training? one short day (30 minutes), one long day (based on miles). again i don't know.
    2 days a week is not enough. In the long run her fitness will decrease, or at best stay the same, on two days a week training. 3 days a week is the minimum needed to increase fitness.
    then she asked if she could train using the elliptical since it is low impact. again i don't know.
    That won't work. If she is training to run a race then she needs to run. There is more to the conditioning than just the cardiovscular fitness. There is also the act of running and strengthening of the legs.

    thanks for the detailed reply.
  • brandyk77
    brandyk77 Posts: 605 Member
    2 days a week is insufficient for training for really any type of race in my opinion. you either make time or do something else.
  • otfan
    otfan Posts: 1
    i am 60 years old and i say suck it and see. I run 2x weekly, bike 2x weekly and swim 2x weekly I also go dancing. I am not into competitions only with myself. I have no injuries and have managed to almost come off my blood pressure medication. it works for me, and i have time for other things.
  • wadedawg
    wadedawg Posts: 315
    I started running a year ago when I restarted here on MFP. I used the C25K program, and really couldn't possibly recommend it any higher. Great program. You run 3 days a week, never on back to back days. This progresses you through nicely and allows you to rest and heal up. I'd tell your friend to look into it. There are several great apps for it, and if they're more advanced they also have 10k and 1/2 marathon trainers.
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