Saturated fats - as evil as they are made out?

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castadiva
castadiva Posts: 2,016 Member
Hoping some of the scientists here will have some answers for me. I am frequently over the saturated fats recommendation (but under total fats) by a few grams, with the majority of these fats coming from eggs, fish, poultry, seeds/nuts and dairy (plus occasional red meat - my housemate, for whom I cook, doesn't eat it).

My understanding is that the historic concern about saturated fats comes from their typically-high cholesterol levels. As cholesterol is increasingly viewed as a red herring in cardiovascular health by the medical fraternity, it seems likely that the risks of saturated fats may also have been overstated. I have a metabolic/hormonal condition similar to PCOS, which means that a high-protein, low-to-moderate refined carbohydrate diet is the best option for me, but I wonder if I need to be concerned about the saturated fats associated with that? Any thoughts?
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Replies

  • Jeff92se
    Jeff92se Posts: 3,369 Member
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    Saturated as in trans fats? I think those are pretty bad for you. Not only that but the foods they are featured in are usually pretty bad too. Chips, fries etc.... Probably not a game changer unless you eat alot of it. Which I don't think you do
  • castadiva
    castadiva Posts: 2,016 Member
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    Not trans fats (rarely eat any of those, if I can avoid it), but general saturated fats - my egg this morning, for example, had 2g of saturated fat, according to the food database, the smoked salmon I had at lunch had 4g etc....
  • ncahill77
    ncahill77 Posts: 501 Member
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    Transfats are not saturated fats. There is an article on wikipedia about both saturated and transfats. I think as long as most of it is coming from lean protein sources you are not doing yourself a disservice.
  • Jeff92se
    Jeff92se Posts: 3,369 Member
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    I think those have good fats. I personally don't worry about them Your body needs some fats to operate normally. They might up your choloesteral levels but it should only elevate the good number and not the bad number.

    Unless you have a high choloresteral level right now?

    My sis in law is off most meats and dairy in an attempt to lower here choloresteral levels and she's done it. But her number was well over 200.
  • _HeathBar_
    _HeathBar_ Posts: 902 Member
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    Saturated fats are good for you. They have no double bonds which makes it easier for your body to use as fuel then unsaturated and trans fat.
  • kantone999
    kantone999 Posts: 174
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    Saturation is one way of classifying fats. The other method is based on molecular size or length of the carbon chain in the fatty acid. You have short-chain fatty acids (SCFA), medium-chain fatty acids(MCFA), and long-chain fatty acids (LCFA). Another term you will often see in reference to fatty acids is triglyceride. Three fatty acids joined together make a triglyceride, so you may have short-chain triglycerides (SCT), medium-chain triglycerides (MCT), or long-chain triglycerides (LCT).

    The vast majority of the fats and oils you eat, whether they are saturated or unsaturated or come from an animal or a plant, are composed of long-chain triglycerides. Probably 98 to 100% of all the fats we eat consist of LCT. Food scientists have long noted the nutritional benefits of medium-chain triglycerides. MCT from coconut oil are used in hospital formulas to feed the very young, the critically ill, and those who have digestive problems. It makes up a vital part of the solutions fed to patients intravenously or through a tube inserted down the throat.

    For at least five decades researchers have recognized that the MCT were digested differently than other fats. This difference has had important applications in the treatment of many digestive and metabolic health conditions and since that time MCT have been routinely used in hospital and baby formulas.

    The digestive health advantages of MCT) over LCT are due to the differences in the way our bodies metabolize these fats. Because the MCT molecules are smaller, they require less energy and fewer enzymes to break them down for digestion. They are digested and absorbed quickly and with minimal effort.

    Pigs fed vegetable oil feed gained weight but those who were fed cocounut oil (a saturated fat) actually lost weight. There's a lot of research out there. Here's a good article: http://www.coconutresearchcenter.org/article10612.htm
  • LabRat529
    LabRat529 Posts: 1,323 Member
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    <---- scientist, but not a specialist in nutrition/diet/cardiovascular health. I specialize in neuroscience, so take this with a grain of salt... or no salt, whatever your preference.

    Brains are quite rich in cholesterol, for the record. :P

    But anyway... my understanding is that you're correct and that for the most part neither saturated fats nor cholesterol are the boogiemen they've been made out to be. The exception to this rule are those who, for whatever reason (be it genetic or whatever) are prone toward high cholesterol. Those individuals might benefit from a low cholesterol diet, which is usually also low in saturated fats. The other group that might benefit from a diet low in saturated fats and cholesterol is those who already have cardiovascular disease- that's something they should discuss with their cardiologist and/or a nutrition specialist.

    I will add that I don't know of any BENEFITS of a diet high in saturated fats that could not be obtained from a diet high in unsaturated fats. So... while it probably doesn't hurt, it also probably doesn't hurt to minimize consumption of them either.

    I do think it's a preference thing... I eat relatively high fat, including high in saturated fats, because it helps with feelings of satiety and because my blood work indicates my cholesterol and triglyceride levels are fine. I also like foods that contain saturated fats and cholesterol, eggs being one of them.

    Transfats, as Jeff92 mentioned, should be avoided as much as possible. I believe the reason is we don't have enzymes to effectively process them, but I could be wrong about that.
  • castlerobber
    castlerobber Posts: 528 Member
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    From what I read, saturated fats and dietary cholesterol have pretty much been exonerated as the cause of cardiovascular disease, and may even be good for you. While saturated fat does raise cholesterol somewhat, it raises both the good HDL and bad LDL, and improves the LDL from small and dense to large and buoyant. I don't have my source in front of me right now, but IIRC, the fat in, say, a steak, breaks down to 49% monounsaturated fat (oleic acid, the same as in olive oil). Part of the remaining fat is stearic acid, the same "good fat" that's in dark chocolate.

    Man-made trans fats, OTOH, are horrible and should be avoided.
  • Jeff92se
    Jeff92se Posts: 3,369 Member
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    Coconut oil consumption means lower weight? Interesting.


    I wonder why the skipper on Gilligan's Island never lost weight? haha j/k
  • taunto
    taunto Posts: 6,420 Member
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    Well, I'm no food scientist but so far I've learned that it all depends on what sources the fats are coming from. Lean protein, dairy, butters and oil (peanut butter and olive oil )and other natural sources are fine by me. Its the processed food that contains saturated fat is what I try hard to avoid.
  • Captain_Tightpants
    Captain_Tightpants Posts: 2,215 Member
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    (Not a scientist)

    Saturated fats are necessary and healthy in moderation.

    In excess, there are ample studies relating them to certain health issues, however there are also lots of confounders so the sat fats themselves may or may not be the culprits.

    I try for an even balance of polyunsaturated, monounsaturated and saturated.

    Avoid trans fats like they have a chainsaw and a hockey mask.

    Further info: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/a-primer-on-dietary-fats-part-1.html
  • PaleoPath4Lyfe
    PaleoPath4Lyfe Posts: 3,161 Member
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    Breast milk is 50-60% saturated fat and is the preferred source of feeding a baby.

    Something to think about.........

    Also, every living thing (yes, including plants) contains saturated fats, even at very minute levels. That should tell people the importance saturated fats play in our health and well being.

    I had a chart that showed how much saturated fats are in different vegetables. However, it is small amounts, but still present.
  • castadiva
    castadiva Posts: 2,016 Member
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    Many thanks, all! Your feedback and input is much appreciated. I've been aware of the importance of fats for brain function, those wonderful EFAs!, for some time, but have only relatively recently become aware of the change in view on cholesterol etc. Fortunately, my numbers on that front at least are all good. It's great to have my thoughts on the matter of saturated fats from protein sources confirmed fairly unanimously. No matter how logical something seems, it's good to have a second, third, fourth...opinion to make sure one is actually being logical, rather than indulging in wishful thinking!

    One quick question for kantone999; other than coconut oil, are there other, more easily-available sources of MCTs?
  • lickmybaconcakes
    lickmybaconcakes Posts: 1,063 Member
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    Here goes my explain,( it's been a little while since I studied these.);

    There is a general positive relationship between saturated fats and Cardiovascular disease (CVD) as serum cholesterol levels rise as increase high density lipo-proteins and low density-proteins decrease, as a general rule for you HDL is "good"(takes cholesterol away from the arteries and back to the liver) and LDL is "bad"( can build on your arteries and can narrow them making them less flexible this is called atherosclerosis I think), so I hear you ask but if there is HDL "good" in there why is it bad for me?
    The answer is that generically there will be a higher ratio or LDL to HDL in saturated fat.

    But remember both LDL and HDL are related to the steroid cholesterol and a level too high of either is not good for your arteries.

    Balance is the key.

    (sorry for my bad English today, I have been writing in Spanish for most of the day.)
  • hpsnickers1
    hpsnickers1 Posts: 2,783 Member
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    NO! NO! NO!

    There is no such thing as a cholesterol level. We only have one kind. There is no 'good' and 'bad' cholesterol. There are lipoproteins that carry cholesterol and cholesterol is critical to brain function and to life. And the HDL - pound for pound - has more cholesterol than all the lipoproteins. Interesting the the lipoprotein that is considered "good cholesterol" actually contains the most cholesterol. 20% of the weight of the brain is from cholesterol. Cholesterol is needed to turn sunlight into vitamin D. I like to call it our bodies duct tape (it's in the artery plaques because it is trying to repair the cracks in the artery walls). The brain makes its own cholesterol (glial cells) because the lipoproteins can't break the blood-brain barrier.

    http://chriskresser.com/heartdisease

    There is a list of articles down the page some.

    Also look into:
    The Great Cholesterol Con
    Ignore the Awkward: How the Cholesterol Myths are Kept Alive
    The Cholesterol Delusion

    (The authors all have different views on what causes heart disease. I think they can all play a factor)

    You can also read the different books on the dangers of statin side effects. They also go into detail about how important cholesterol is in the body.


    The only reason the "experts" consider saturated fat evil is because it allegedly raises cholesterol levels. And raised cholesterol levels allegedly cause heart disease. WRONG!! Saturated fat plays no part in the synthesis of cholesterol and therefor plays no part in heart disease.

    Dietary cholesterol and blood cholesterol have no connection OTHER than this: you eat more cholesterol, your body will make less.
    You eat less, your body will make more - to maintain a specific level.
    What's really interesting: Carbohydrates create the small dense LDL particles that ARE considered a risk factor for heart disease.
    Saturated fat creates the large, fluffy LDL that aren't a risk factor for heart disease.

    Stop listening to the media, the government, the USDA and the FDA and do your own research.

    All those wonderful studies done? People who got heart disease had high, low and normal cholesterol (whatever normal is). People who succumbed to heart disease were ever more likely to have very low cholesterol. The only reason that more people have "high" cholesterol these days is "they" keep dropping the number that is considered high.

    I eat more fat than any other macronutrient and I eat mostly saturated fat. Since I went Primal I have doubled my weight loss, hit a weight I haven't seen since before puberty; I don't get sleepy anymore during the day. I also don't have to eat every few hours because my "carb fix" has worn off.

    You know what our bodies turn excess carbohydrates into (what the body doesn't use immediately)? Saturated fat. Yes. Even our bodies can't understand just how evil saturated fat is.
  • hpsnickers1
    hpsnickers1 Posts: 2,783 Member
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    Here's something from Primal Body, Primal Mind:

    The Need for Steady Fuel: Where fueling the fire of our brain and body's metabolism is concerned, carbohydrates can best be described as kindling. Whole grains and legumes are somewhat like twigs; starch, such as cereals and potatoes, and simple sugars are like paper on the fire; and alcohol might best be described as gasoline on the fire. If you're relying on carbohydrates as your primary source of fuel, you need to feed that fire often, regularly, and consistently. You will be craving that fuel. Unfortunately, most people today have forcibly adapted their bodies to this sort of an unnatural dependence by over-consuming carbohydrates in their diet. (Most - if not all alcoholics have - for instance - severe issues with dysglycemia and sugar addiction. Alcoholics are dependent on and regularly seek fast sources of sugar - alcohol being the fastest...because the problem in alcoholism, in fact, isn't really alcohol, per se, but severe carbohydrate addiction (this is interesting to me because most people I know that have completely stopped drinking develop sweet tooths.)...One might get a burst or a ball of flame with respect to energy from many carbohydrate sources, but no one can get long-term, sustainable energy. As soon as the flame starts to die out, which doesn't take long, you're stuck with cravings for fuel or stimulants again. It can be quite a roller coaster ride. This is why dome dietary experts are always telling you to eat every two hours or to eat "numerous small meals throughout the day". If you're sugar dependent - and almost everyone in this culture is victim to that unnecessary reality - then frequent small meals become necessary to maintain an even keel. If you have ever heated your home with a wood stove using paper, twigs and lighter fluid all day, you'd be a slave to that fire and you'd need a mountain of fuel to constantly feed that hungry beast. You'd be forever preoccupied with keeping that fire going, and you'd have little other life...Nature would never have intended for us to constantly live this way. It is a terribly impractical state to maintain, particularly if you view this from the primitive perspective of ongoing survival in a less certain world where food wasn't constantly available. Our primitive (particularly ice-age) ancestors would never have made it this far if carbohydrates were essential to the diet or if glucose were necessary as a primary source of energy. Nature isn't that crazy or stupid...Mind you, it is possible to live in a state of primary glucose dependence. The idea that we are necessarily dependent on sugar as our primary source of fuel is true only conditionally, only if we've metabolically adapted ourselves to that unnatural dependence....It isn't necessary at all and it will age you faster (and cost you much more in grocery bills and health care). Dietary fat, in the absence of carbohydrates, is like putting a nice big log on the fire. Fat's flame burns as a regular, even rate, and is easily dept going, Protein, consumed in moderate quantities, is mainly diverted toward repair and maintenance. Only in excess does it convert to sugar. Fat's even flame keeps the hormone leptin under control, keeps insulin quiet, and keeps our appetite satisfied...One can go many, many hours on this longer-burning type of fuel without experiencing any discomfort or cravings at all. You may eventually get hungry if you really go a long time without eating, which is normal, bu you are far less likely to experience irritability, dizziness, brain fog, cravings, fatigue, jitteriness, or mood swings because of it. That's the way it's supposed to be!

    I am no longer a sugar burner. I am a fat burner. Obesity doesn't come from eating too much fat. It comes from eating too many carbs (mainly refined but I don't touch whole grain or legumes either) which keeps your body from burning fat. How can it when it has to burn sugar every few hours?
  • kantone999
    kantone999 Posts: 174
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    Many thanks, all! Your feedback and input is much appreciated. I've been aware of the importance of fats for brain function, those wonderful EFAs!, for some time, but have only relatively recently become aware of the change in view on cholesterol etc. Fortunately, my numbers on that front at least are all good. It's great to have my thoughts on the matter of saturated fats from protein sources confirmed fairly unanimously. No matter how logical something seems, it's good to have a second, third, fourth...opinion to make sure one is actually being logical, rather than indulging in wishful thinking!

    One quick question for kantone999; other than coconut oil, are there other, more easily-available sources of MCTs?

    Uh, yeah but I don't know about more easily available and certainly not as palatable to western tastebuds. Two of them most people will not want to add to their diet. The other rich sources of MCTs are palm kernel oil, camphor tree drupes and mare's milk. Numerous cultures use camphor as a spice while in the west it's usually considered only a liniment. In botany, a drupe is a fruit in which an outer fleshy part (exocarp, or skin; and mesocarp, or flesh) surrounds a shell (the pit, stone or pyrene) of hardened endocarp with a seed inside.

    Kumis is a fermented dairy product traditionally made from mare's milk. The drink remains important to the peoples of the Central Asian steppes, of Turkic and Mongol origin: Bashkirs, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Yakuts, Mongols and Kalmyks.[1] It was also consumed by Baltic, Hungarian tribes.[2]

    Kumis is a dairy product similar to kefir but is produced from a liquid starter culture, in contrast to the solid kefir "grains". Because mare's milk contains more sugars than the cow's or goat's milk fermented into kefir, kumis has a higher, though still mild, alcohol content. I've had it. It's stronger than cow or goat milk. The taste has to grow on you, kind of like yogurt or cottage cheese. I'm of the opinion that if you put enough strawberries in it, it will eventually taste good.

    Yes, you can buy it in some ethnic food stores so you don't have to milk your own horse.
  • castadiva
    castadiva Posts: 2,016 Member
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    Really interesting reading - thank you! I'll have a look for the books you mention - the title "Ignore the Awkward" calls to me in particular! I love things that stir the pot against the popular tide, especially if that tide is misinformed :wink:

    Duharforstae - your English is an awful lot better than my Spanish! Thanks for the input.
  • castadiva
    castadiva Posts: 2,016 Member
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    Many thanks, all! Your feedback and input is much appreciated. I've been aware of the importance of fats for brain function, those wonderful EFAs!, for some time, but have only relatively recently become aware of the change in view on cholesterol etc. Fortunately, my numbers on that front at least are all good. It's great to have my thoughts on the matter of saturated fats from protein sources confirmed fairly unanimously. No matter how logical something seems, it's good to have a second, third, fourth...opinion to make sure one is actually being logical, rather than indulging in wishful thinking!

    One quick question for kantone999; other than coconut oil, are there other, more easily-available sources of MCTs?

    Uh, yeah but two of them you may not want to add to your diet. The other rich sources of MCTs are palm kernel oil, camphor tree drupes and mare's milk. Numerous cultures use camphor as a spice while in the west it's usually considered only a liniment.

    Kumis is a fermented dairy product traditionally made from mare's milk. The drink remains important to the peoples of the Central Asian steppes, of Turkic and Mongol origin: Bashkirs, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Yakuts, Mongols and Kalmyks.[1] It was also consumed by Baltic, Hungarian tribes.[2]

    Kumis is a dairy product similar to kefir but is produced from a liquid starter culture, in contrast to the solid kefir "grains". Because mare's milk contains more sugars than the cow's or goat's milk fermented into kefir, kumis has a higher, though still mild, alcohol content. I've had it. It's stronger than cow or goat milk. The taste has to grow on you, kind of like yogurt or cottage cheese. Yes, you can buy it in some ethnic food stores so you don't have to milk your own horse.

    Ah... perhaps I'll go looking for some coconut oil after all! Sadly, milkable or otherwise, there's not much room for stabling a mare (and presumably foal) in Central London. Thanks for expanding on why coconut oil is clearly the preferable option :laugh: