NO Saints Bounygate/Jeremy Shockey accusations...
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I wonder if any players will be fined and suspended...
I think they ought to be if it can be proven that they took part in the program. My sister in law and I knew something wasn't right whenever we watched a Saints game last season. We kept saying, "I SWEAR it looks like they're TRYING to hurt someone!" Turns out, they were. Whether the disciplinary action was to severe or not, I'm just glad the NFL put a stop to it before someone was SERIOUSLY injured...and I'm not talking knee injuries and such. The way they were hitting people, it was only a matter of time before someone was paralyzed or killed. Don't get me wrong. I love to see a good tackle as much as the next football fan. I understand it's a violent sport and injuries are bound to happen. I don't even have a problem with coaches encouraging their players to be more aggressive. However, there is a difference between aggressive playing and malicious behavior. What they were doing was unethical and malicious, not to mention against the NFL rules and safety regulations.
Ok yea I am a Saints fan and could care less if Shockey ratted or not....and yes what the team did was wrong but everyone is acting like the Saints were trying to literally KILL other players....not so much! It is a contact sport...hello??!!? I don't want to see flag football......and what about the other players who have been fined and suspended during the season for rough plays? Like the colts Suh who intentionally stomps on players and bangs their head into the turf..... I mean apparently the Saints hits were legal hits. Even the guys who were supposedly targeted are not in an uproar (Kurt Warner and Brett Farve) everyone is saying that it happens in every NFL locker room.
Don't get me wrong I do believe that there should be some discipline but this is ridiculous a whole season we lose our head coach?? C'MON NOW
Now just to leave you with a bit of information.
So, Sean Payton gets suspended longer than Michael Vick got for gambling and murdering dogs....longer than Ben Roethlisberger got for multiple rape accusations...longer than Bill Belichek got for actually cheating..longer than Donte Salworth got for killing someone while driving drunk.....longer than Ray Lewis got for being part of a murder committed by his posse...longer than Michael Irvin got for cocaine possession.....longer than Chris Henry got for assaulting a teenager......longer than Tank Johnson got for his arsenal of guns and assaults........longer than Plaxico Burress got for illegally discharging a gun in a New York nightclub.........All for playing a little HARD hitting FOOTBALL!!!
Did you read my ENTIRE comment? Or did you skip over parts of it? I did say I DON'T have a problem with AGGRESSIVE playing, but that particular bounty program was offering $1000 for a strong hit (what they called a KO hit) and $1500 to get someone carted off the field. I never said they were trying to KILL someone, I said they were intentionally trying to HURT someone. Because of this, the playing was getting OVERLY aggressive to the point that it was only a matter of time before someone DID get killed or paralyzed as a result of malicious behavior on the field. Not to mention, it was causing some poor sportsmanship on both sides of the ball.0 -
I wonder if any players will be fined and suspended...
I think they ought to be if it can be proven that they took part in the program. My sister in law and I knew something wasn't right whenever we watched a Saints game last season. We kept saying, "I SWEAR it looks like they're TRYING to hurt someone!" Turns out, they were. Whether the disciplinary action was to severe or not, I'm just glad the NFL put a stop to it before someone was SERIOUSLY injured...and I'm not talking knee injuries and such. The way they were hitting people, it was only a matter of time before someone was paralyzed or killed. Don't get me wrong. I love to see a good tackle as much as the next football fan. I understand it's a violent sport and injuries are bound to happen. I don't even have a problem with coaches encouraging their players to be more aggressive. However, there is a difference between aggressive playing and malicious behavior. What they were doing was unethical and malicious, not to mention against the NFL rules and safety regulations.
Ok yea I am a Saints fan and could care less if Shockey ratted or not....and yes what the team did was wrong but everyone is acting like the Saints were trying to literally KILL other players....not so much! It is a contact sport...hello??!!? I don't want to see flag football......and what about the other players who have been fined and suspended during the season for rough plays? Like the colts Suh who intentionally stomps on players and bangs their head into the turf..... I mean apparently the Saints hits were legal hits. Even the guys who were supposedly targeted are not in an uproar (Kurt Warner and Brett Farve) everyone is saying that it happens in every NFL locker room.
Don't get me wrong I do believe that there should be some discipline but this is ridiculous a whole season we lose our head coach?? C'MON NOW
Now just to leave you with a bit of information.
So, Sean Payton gets suspended longer than Michael Vick got for gambling and murdering dogs....longer than Ben Roethlisberger got for multiple rape accusations...longer than Bill Belichek got for actually cheating..longer than Donte Salworth got for killing someone while driving drunk.....longer than Ray Lewis got for being part of a murder committed by his posse...longer than Michael Irvin got for cocaine possession.....longer than Chris Henry got for assaulting a teenager......longer than Tank Johnson got for his arsenal of guns and assaults........longer than Plaxico Burress got for illegally discharging a gun in a New York nightclub.........All for playing a little HARD hitting FOOTBALL!!!
Wow, did you miss the point of it all. First, part of the penalty was that they did these bounties. For Gregg Williams, it was a pattern going back a decade. For Payton and their GM, they knew about it and allowed it. Second, part of the penalty is because of the cover up and lying. They were told 2 years ago to clean it up and they didn't. They broke the rules and continued to do it. so the NFL has come down on them.
Most of your other examples are things that were done outside of football - Vick spent more time out of football, Ray Lewis was never charged with anything, etc. Just like Pete Rose in baseball or Tressel at Ohio State, the cover up and lying is worse than the crime.0 -
I'm a huge Saints fan. The way I see it is it really doesn't matter how the NFL found out or who "snitched". Greg Williams and the Saints players who participated broke some serious rules. If someone had the balls to step up and say "This is wrong," good for them. Someone should have said something sooner. The players chose to do it and Sean Payton chose to let it go on. They need to face the consequences of their actions.
Thank you. :flowerforyou:However, I think the consequences are a bit steep. I personally believe that the commissioner imposed such a serious punishment because of all the pending litigation surrounding him. Many current and former players are suing the NFL saying that the league didn't do enough to protect players from getting serious injuries. (If you don't want to get hurt, don't play a sport where huge men are trained to hit you really hard multiple times.)
I know legal liabilities were a big motivating factor for the commish, but he has done alot to improve the safety of the game since he's been in charge. All his hard work in that regard, and that of other NFL officials, would have been for naught if he just swept this issue under the rug now.I'd like to know if the NFL is going to investigate the other teams that do this sort of thing, or if he's just going to make an example of the Saints and be done with it. Greg Williams coached more than one team in his career...
I agree, "what's good for the goose, is good for the gander". And I certainly hope he will come down on any other teams that are participating in this sort of thing. He does have to be able to prove it, though. Let's not forget that the Saints had been warned before to knock it off, and they kept doing it anyway...and they were getting more and more blatant about it, to boot.0 -
i am a die hard saints fan born and raised in new orleans and although i think that the punishment that our team got is COMPLETLY far fectched i still think that it totally unacceptable the way my fellow saints fans have been acting towards shockey who was once seen as a hero for our city and team.
Thank you. :flowerforyou:0 -
Screw that franchise and any of its fans who are crying about this. I hope the saints descend into decades of misery.
I knew something was up when i was watching the vikes play them in 09. People called Minn fans whiners, but it looks as though we had legit issue to complain about after all.
i hope they enjoy their permanent sb asterisk. the only good that came out of this is now Patriot fans have comrades who feel their pain.0 -
Anybody else following this? Since I'm a Carolina Panthers fan, I've been completely hooked on this particular drama for a couple of reasons:
1. Jeremy used to play for the Saints, but played for us last year.
2. The Saints are a division rival of Carolina.
Personally, I don't care one way or the other if Jeremy did snitch. (Although, I happen to be of the opinion that he did not.) I do, however, think it's absolutely SHAMEFUL what people are posting on his Facebook and Twitter pages all because ONE guy (Warren Sapp) pointed the finger and said, "He did it! He snitched and got the Saints in trouble! It's all his fault!" Granted, Jeremy has a reputation of being something of a hotheaded badboy, but I don't think he deserves the awful remarks people are making. Seriously, some of this stuff I'm reading just makes me want to cry it's so full of hate.
P.S. I don't mind people posting critical remarks, but please keep it clean and civil. I don't want this thread to get locked.
Edit: Spelling error in tagline *bounTygate*
The New Orleans people are a lively bunch. An emotionally driven bunch. And their reactions to such news will always be emotional ones. If Shockey did snitch, I don't have a problem with people voicing their feelings of betrayal. These are mostly people who remained a Shockey fan after being sad to see him go. My own mother posted on his FB wall... It wasn't crude. It was simply "I wish I could figure out how to 'unlike' you on this darn phone application." (She's not so tech savvy.) I think it's totally justified for the fans to be upset. They're fans. All they know to care about is winning. When their team is punished (possibly rightfully so) in a way that could potentially kill TWO seasons, they are allowed to have ruffled feathers. (I'm not saying it's okay to send death threats. But voicing disdain is not inappropriate.)
I'm kind of in the minority on this in general, b/c I expect football to be a dirty game. I've grown up watching SEC football. It's just what I know. However, paying for "take outs" and "cart offs" is wrong. And I do believe a punishment is in order. But punishing a CURRENT group of guys for something FORMER guys did is RIDICULOUS. Suspend Payton for a year, sure. Punish the manager for letting it happen on his clock, yea. Fine the organization, okay. TWO YEARS OF DRAFT PICKS taken away?! No effin way. Fine/suspend the players (those currently still with the Saints and those who have moved on). I'm fine with that. But there are innocent men being punished for this "crime." And that is a bunch of chickenpoop.
Then there would be no way the NFL could hand down a punishment severe enough to make a point if they were worried about players currently on the team. If we follow your logic, then Williams shouldn't be suspended because the Rams had nothing to do with this scandal either.0 -
I wonder if any players will be fined and suspended...
I think they ought to be if it can be proven that they took part in the program. My sister in law and I knew something wasn't right whenever we watched a Saints game last season. We kept saying, "I SWEAR it looks like they're TRYING to hurt someone!" Turns out, they were. Whether the disciplinary action was to severe or not, I'm just glad the NFL put a stop to it before someone was SERIOUSLY injured...and I'm not talking knee injuries and such. The way they were hitting people, it was only a matter of time before someone was paralyzed or killed. Don't get me wrong. I love to see a good tackle as much as the next football fan. I understand it's a violent sport and injuries are bound to happen. I don't even have a problem with coaches encouraging their players to be more aggressive. However, there is a difference between aggressive playing and malicious behavior. What they were doing was unethical and malicious, not to mention against the NFL rules and safety regulations.
Ok yea I am a Saints fan and could care less if Shockey ratted or not....and yes what the team did was wrong but everyone is acting like the Saints were trying to literally KILL other players....not so much! It is a contact sport...hello??!!? I don't want to see flag football......and what about the other players who have been fined and suspended during the season for rough plays? Like the colts Suh who intentionally stomps on players and bangs their head into the turf..... I mean apparently the Saints hits were legal hits. Even the guys who were supposedly targeted are not in an uproar (Kurt Warner and Brett Farve) everyone is saying that it happens in every NFL locker room.
Don't get me wrong I do believe that there should be some discipline but this is ridiculous a whole season we lose our head coach?? C'MON NOW
Now just to leave you with a bit of information.
So, Sean Payton gets suspended longer than Michael Vick got for gambling and murdering dogs....longer than Ben Roethlisberger got for multiple rape accusations...longer than Bill Belichek got for actually cheating..longer than Donte Salworth got for killing someone while driving drunk.....longer than Ray Lewis got for being part of a murder committed by his posse...longer than Michael Irvin got for cocaine possession.....longer than Chris Henry got for assaulting a teenager......longer than Tank Johnson got for his arsenal of guns and assaults........longer than Plaxico Burress got for illegally discharging a gun in a New York nightclub.........All for playing a little HARD hitting FOOTBALL!!!
Like BB, the saints actually cheated too. What is it with you saints fans that want to point to other things totally unrelated to this?
The fact is, your team cheated to get to the SB, they deserve everything they get.
Did you see Favre's ankle after the game? That is not due to legal hits as you seem to think. that came from repeated attempts at your D diving for his ankles. Tell me, what would you be thinking of Breese's ankle looked like that after the game or if it was the other way around?
You can hit hard in football, but it doesn't have to be the type of hit designed to inure a guy or end a career.
You can cry about a couple of lost seasons, but as a vikes fan, it will be a long time before we can contend for a title. Your team ruined the shot we had because they were not man enough to win straight up.
yes the vikes made some mistakes on their own that game, but I don't know of any team that can overcome self-inflicted mistakes, bad refs, and a cheating opponent during the same game.0 -
Well, I'm putting up a grand to anyone who takes him out this season. Who's with me? Oh wait...
Can we vote Swannysez for a "funniest posts" award? Where do I send that to? I have to say, Swanny, your posts regularly make me laugh!
He's got my vote
Mine too!0 -
Anybody else following this? Since I'm a Carolina Panthers fan, I've been completely hooked on this particular drama for a couple of reasons:
1. Jeremy used to play for the Saints, but played for us last year.
2. The Saints are a division rival of Carolina.
Personally, I don't care one way or the other if Jeremy did snitch. (Although, I happen to be of the opinion that he did not.) I do, however, think it's absolutely SHAMEFUL what people are posting on his Facebook and Twitter pages all because ONE guy (Warren Sapp) pointed the finger and said, "He did it! He snitched and got the Saints in trouble! It's all his fault!" Granted, Jeremy has a reputation of being something of a hotheaded badboy, but I don't think he deserves the awful remarks people are making. Seriously, some of this stuff I'm reading just makes me want to cry it's so full of hate.
P.S. I don't mind people posting critical remarks, but please keep it clean and civil. I don't want this thread to get locked.
Edit: Spelling error in tagline *bounTygate*
The New Orleans people are a lively bunch. An emotionally driven bunch. And their reactions to such news will always be emotional ones. If Shockey did snitch, I don't have a problem with people voicing their feelings of betrayal. These are mostly people who remained a Shockey fan after being sad to see him go. My own mother posted on his FB wall... It wasn't crude. It was simply "I wish I could figure out how to 'unlike' you on this darn phone application." (She's not so tech savvy.) I think it's totally justified for the fans to be upset. They're fans. All they know to care about is winning. When their team is punished (possibly rightfully so) in a way that could potentially kill TWO seasons, they are allowed to have ruffled feathers. (I'm not saying it's okay to send death threats. But voicing disdain is not inappropriate.)
I'm kind of in the minority on this in general, b/c I expect football to be a dirty game. I've grown up watching SEC football. It's just what I know. However, paying for "take outs" and "cart offs" is wrong. And I do believe a punishment is in order. But punishing a CURRENT group of guys for something FORMER guys did is RIDICULOUS. Suspend Payton for a year, sure. Punish the manager for letting it happen on his clock, yea. Fine the organization, okay. TWO YEARS OF DRAFT PICKS taken away?! No effin way. Fine/suspend the players (those currently still with the Saints and those who have moved on). I'm fine with that. But there are innocent men being punished for this "crime." And that is a bunch of chickenpoop.
Then there would be no way the NFL could hand down a punishment severe enough to make a point if they were worried about players currently on the team. If we follow your logic, then Williams shouldn't be suspended because the Rams had nothing to do with this scandal either.
If you read my "logic" again, I'm not fussing over any of the suspensions or fines. Pretty sure I said I was okay with Payton getting suspended. ANYONE DIRECTLY INVOLVED should be suspended. My ONLY complaint, jackarse, was on the revoking of second round draft picks for TWO years. ONLY complaint. ONLY ONE! Now, stop whining about something that happened two years ago that appropriate people are being punished for, and get on with looking forward to next season.0 -
I wonder if any players will be fined and suspended...
I think they ought to be if it can be proven that they took part in the program. My sister in law and I knew something wasn't right whenever we watched a Saints game last season. We kept saying, "I SWEAR it looks like they're TRYING to hurt someone!" Turns out, they were. Whether the disciplinary action was to severe or not, I'm just glad the NFL put a stop to it before someone was SERIOUSLY injured...and I'm not talking knee injuries and such. The way they were hitting people, it was only a matter of time before someone was paralyzed or killed. Don't get me wrong. I love to see a good tackle as much as the next football fan. I understand it's a violent sport and injuries are bound to happen. I don't even have a problem with coaches encouraging their players to be more aggressive. However, there is a difference between aggressive playing and malicious behavior. What they were doing was unethical and malicious, not to mention against the NFL rules and safety regulations.
Ok yea I am a Saints fan and could care less if Shockey ratted or not....and yes what the team did was wrong but everyone is acting like the Saints were trying to literally KILL other players....not so much! It is a contact sport...hello??!!? I don't want to see flag football......and what about the other players who have been fined and suspended during the season for rough plays? Like the colts Suh who intentionally stomps on players and bangs their head into the turf..... I mean apparently the Saints hits were legal hits. Even the guys who were supposedly targeted are not in an uproar (Kurt Warner and Brett Farve) everyone is saying that it happens in every NFL locker room.
Don't get me wrong I do believe that there should be some discipline but this is ridiculous a whole season we lose our head coach?? C'MON NOW
Now just to leave you with a bit of information.
So, Sean Payton gets suspended longer than Michael Vick got for gambling and murdering dogs....longer than Ben Roethlisberger got for multiple rape accusations...longer than Bill Belichek got for actually cheating..longer than Donte Salworth got for killing someone while driving drunk.....longer than Ray Lewis got for being part of a murder committed by his posse...longer than Michael Irvin got for cocaine possession.....longer than Chris Henry got for assaulting a teenager......longer than Tank Johnson got for his arsenal of guns and assaults........longer than Plaxico Burress got for illegally discharging a gun in a New York nightclub.........All for playing a little HARD hitting FOOTBALL!!!
Like BB, the saints actually cheated too. What is it with you saints fans that want to point to other things totally unrelated to this?
The fact is, your team cheated to get to the SB, they deserve everything they get.
Did you see Favre's ankle after the game? That is not due to legal hits as you seem to think. that came from repeated attempts at your D diving for his ankles. Tell me, what would you be thinking of Breese's ankle looked like that after the game or if it was the other way around?
You can hit hard in football, but it doesn't have to be the type of hit designed to inure a guy or end a career.
You can cry about a couple of lost seasons, but as a vikes fan, it will be a long time before we can contend for a title. Your team ruined the shot we had because they were not man enough to win straight up.
yes the vikes made some mistakes on their own that game, but I don't know of any team that can overcome self-inflicted mistakes, bad refs, and a cheating opponent during the same game.
Considering your other posts you sound more worked up than we Saints fans are. Personally I've heard nothing about Shockey telling tales or whatever it was and really I don't care because guess what no one's perfect. There's always going to be someone doing what they shouldn't and someone who rats on something.
Do the Saints deserve punishment for what they did? Yes, and so does any other team that does it. As for Sean Payton's suspension, well that was the NFL's call and I can't say I agree with it but I'm not exactly well-versed on the politics involved in football.
But seriously dude, take a chill pill, walk it off. You're spitting on us and claiming victimization at the same time. Choose your point of view, choose your argument, and stay with it. Don't hit us then crawl back to your side of the pen and whine when you've sneered at the Saints fans whining.0 -
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you are crazy if you dont think that this is going on on EVERY team! its pro football with a bunch of alpha males of course this is going to happen, oh and not a SINGLE one of those hits were even penalized, they could have not been that horrible.0
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you are crazy if you dont think that this is going on on EVERY team! its pro football with a bunch of alpha males of course this is going to happen, oh and not a SINGLE one of those hits were even penalized, they could have not been that horrible.
It's not that the hits were that bad, although some of them were pretty rough. It's the fact that they were being executed in a way that made it blatantly obvious that they were playing dirty and intentionally TRYING to hurt people. It was only a matter of time before they DID seriously hurt someone. THAT'S why so many people have a problem with it. Like I said before, I have no problem with aggressive playing. That's the very nature of football. However, there is a HUGE difference between being aggressive and being malicious.
Aggressive--vigorously energetic, especially in the use of initiative and forcefulness.
Malicious--motivated by wrongful, vicious, or mischievous purposes.
The following video clip is an example of malicious behavior. Even though the physical impact of the hit may not have looked "that bad", it was obvious that Roman Harper intentionally hit Steve Smith WAAAAAY late. He had PLENTY of time to stop himself or change his course, but chose not to. Then he went straight for Smitty's head. This kind of stuff went on ALLL season long. And this is just a mild example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq7gVv7I4MA&feature=related
P.S. Steve Smith rocks, btw. Did you see that catch?! This is why Panthers fans love him in spite of the fact that he can be a hothead. Although, in this case, I think he was totally justified.0
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