Runners knee - Physio or acupuncture?

Dragonfly1996
Dragonfly1996 Posts: 196 Member
edited December 16 in Fitness and Exercise
Hi - don't know if there are any physio's on here or similar or if anyone has suffered from the same but could do with some advice on runners knee!!

I am running London marathon in 4 weeks. I am due to do my longest run of 22mi this week before tapering. Since I started ramping up my mileage from 16mi (so the last 4-5 long runs) I have suffered with knee pain from about 7/8mi onwards. General consensus is that it's my IT band or runners knee. I have been having massages for this but the pain remains!! I was scheduled to do 16mi last weekend but stopped at 14.5mi as knee even hurt whilst walking. It started niggling at just 4mi & got progressively more painful (up to scale of 8 out of 10) but sort of came & went.

The pain is around the outside of my knee & sometimes up the outside of my leg about 3in & sometimes deep in my glutes.

I have trained for various 5k, 10k & 2 half marathons in the last 2 years with no problems whatsoever!! My last HM was Nov 2011. I had no specific pain at all. My trainers are fine & were professionally assessed & fitted. I also have no problems with shorter runs, intervals, cycling, spinning, kettle bells, walking or general gym work.

I have made an appointment with an acupuncturist as my cousin said that sorted hers out but the lady said it may not help me & I could by magnesium deficient!! She also said perhaps my body just doesn't want to run!! Can't really understand that as I have been running for 2 years with no problems until this marathon training (my first by the way). It's not cheap to see her which I can't really afford but I am now at a loss of what to do.

I really don't want to defer.

Should I see a physio that may be able to pinpoint my body's weak point & treat it or go ahead & try acupuncture?

I got quite upset this weekend on my long run & have eaten, breathed & dreamt of this race since I got in. More notably since Xmas just before training began.

I have tried walking bouts but nothing regimented. I had thought of run / walk 3 min to 1 min as this works for lots of people. Any thoughts on that? Last weekend I ran 6mi walked 1mi ran 5mi then ran/walked 1.5mi. The knee started really bothering me at 12/13mi.

I have posted similar posts to this before so it may look like I am repeating myself to some of you!! I am getting quite emotional & desperate about it now which is not going to help I know but I am so annoyed that fitness & mentally wise I can do this - I just have to convince my right knee / ITB to do the same!!

Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanx DF:flowerforyou:

Replies

  • BerryH
    BerryH Posts: 4,698 Member
    Oh DF, poor you, as well you know, I fully understand your frustration!

    At this stage nothing can hurt, so why not try the acupuncture alongside the physio (advise both therapists about the other treatment) and take a multivitamin and mineral (I wouldn't take magnesium alone as minerals tend to work in balance with each other). If you're not doing so already, add in a joint supplement. I take a cheap cod liver oil/glucosamine/chondriotin capsule from Tesco.

    Are you doing strength training for your legs? I'm pretty sure squats/lunged/step ups have helped keep my knees aligned a bit better this time round.

    You know I'm a big fan of walk/run, it can really take the stress off your joints just by doing a different action for a bit. 3:1 would be about the right ratio for your pace:
    http://www.jeffgalloway.com/training/walk_breaks.html

    After saying nothing can hurt, what COULD hurt would be running long on a bad knee.

    Now, take this under advisement from the pros you're seeing, but based on advice from my Ironman triathlete friend, unless you're sure you can do this long run without pain, I would drop it altogether, or at least cut it short to a distance you know you can go pain-free.

    You've been so good with your training you've got the bulk of your mileage in, the main thing to do now is to get to that start line in one piece. Mentally this will be hard, but physically, I reckon it's the best you can do for your body now.

    Good luck! :flowerforyou:
  • nickyfm
    nickyfm Posts: 1,214 Member
    Definitely see a physio.

    I used to be a runner, but I was constantly getting sever shin splints and knee injuries. He classed my body as "not made for running", lol.

    The physio will help to release the scarred muscles, tendons etc, and will give you exercises for it to heal
  • BerryH
    BerryH Posts: 4,698 Member
    Ooh, I mis-read that, I thought you were already seeing a physio and were thinking about seeing the acupuncturist. No, between the two ditch the needles and see the physio, they will work on repair AND prevention in a far more practical way.
  • BrianSharpe
    BrianSharpe Posts: 9,248 Member
    Definitely see the physio therapist (is the massage you're getting a sports therapist? My IT band gave me hell last fall and a massage therapist helped a great deal).

    Are you suing a foam roller (as well as general stretching and IT band specific stretches)? I roll after every run now - it's made a huge difference.

    Best of luck.
  • em9371
    em9371 Posts: 1,047 Member
    another vote for seeing physio.

    ive run on and off for years, in january started with knee pain which has been diagnosed as runners knee after seeing physio, sports massage guy and finally a hospital appt and xrays last week. I was advised it was caused by a combination of overtraining (running / spinning and heavy weights), flat feet / muscle imbalance in thighs so kneecap is not correctly supported and can run slightly off centre and grind up the cartilage behind the kneecap. in your case i would suspect its the increased training for the marathon if you have never had problems before?
    Dr said to do NO running or high impact exercise at all at least until I have seen physio, and i only run max 1 hour so im not sure doing a marathon on a bad knee is a good idea, it will be hard to not do it especially after putting in the training, but you are better off deferring until next year rather than possibly do yourself long term damage and be unable to run again!!!!

    i saw this in runners world, its really helpful and helped me discover exactly what exercise makes my knee worse and why:
    http://runningdoctor.runnersworld.com/2007/07/27/should-a-stiff-html/
    good luck and hope you get it sorted!
  • Aperture_Science
    Aperture_Science Posts: 840 Member
    I'm not a fan of acupuncture in general (so you may want to consider thins with my answer) so, I'd be talking to a physio.

    But, there will be limited physio work that you could reasonably get in between now and London and as Berry says, getting to the start line is your number one goal (knowing that you have significant miles under your belt already).

    Good luck and best wishes.
  • BerryH
    BerryH Posts: 4,698 Member
    You might also want to look into insoles. They helped me with various foot and leg twinges. Here's what Sorbothane recommend for knee pain. Amazon sells them.
    http://www.sorbothane.co.uk/index.php/knee-pain.html
  • em9371
    em9371 Posts: 1,047 Member
    You might also want to look into insoles. They helped me with various foot and leg twinges. Here's what Sorbothane recommend for knee pain. Amazon sells them.
    http://www.sorbothane.co.uk/index.php/knee-pain.html

    thanks for that, will be worth a try i think following my physio appts :-)
  • seekingstrengthX2
    seekingstrengthX2 Posts: 771
    If not already doing so, I would start taking a glucoasmine supplement ASAP. Something like Triple Strength Osteo BiFlex, 2/day, every day. I injured my knee running many years ago and these are life saving for me. I can't run without them.
  • Dragonfly1996
    Dragonfly1996 Posts: 196 Member
    I think I am going to not bother with acupuncture & just continue with the sports massage. My friend is going to lend me her TENS machine to use at home. I am also thinking reducing the mileage of my runs over the next 3 weeks plus 3:1 run/walk will be the way to go & add in a 3rd strength training session.

    I have been using a foam roller 3 mornings a week & stretch exercises so I will increase this to perhaps every day.

    Was also going to look into a knee brace & insoles plus use freeze gel!!

    With regard to supplements I am rattling at the moment - I take wellwoman sport & fitness, jointace sport, carnitine & glutamate.

    Thank you for all the help & support - it's invaluable!! I won't let this beat me!! :flowerforyou:
  • dawnemjh
    dawnemjh Posts: 1,465 Member
    I reccomend Physio (if thats the same as what a physical therapist is here in the US)

    You could also google exercises to help IT band.

    I have the same problem, I usually start with pain in the right hip and it radiates down the right outer leg to the right knee. I did the walt disney world marathon in 2011 and I had to do an abridged training regimin so that I would hurt the IT band any more than it was already hurt. I usually could get to about 16-18 miles before I would get pain, and then eventually if I kept running it would get to the point where I would alter my gait and then the left knee would start to hurt. I knew if I got to like 16-18 miles without pain I could do the last 8 or so with pain.....unfortunately on race day I went out faster then I had trained and my knee started bothering me at like 9 miles :noway: it made for a very painful run!!!! The only way I was able to even run was by doing exercises to strengthen my IT---try googling, but there are a few : clam shells, hip abducters, etc

    GOOD LUCK!
  • dls06
    dls06 Posts: 6,774 Member
    I had 2 spinal surgeries and have been in constant pain since. I had tried acupuncture for 2 years. The results weren't what I thought it would be. It helped with the depression but not much for the pain.
    I would see a Doctor to find out what is causing the pain first then make your decision.
  • BerryH
    BerryH Posts: 4,698 Member
    This site has some good advice, stretches and strengthening exercises. I intend to try some tonight!
    http://familydoctor.org/familydoctor/en/prevention-wellness/exercise-fitness/sports-safety/running-preventing-overuse-injuries.html
  • katemaryberry
    katemaryberry Posts: 14 Member
    I am a physical therapist and therefore slightly biased. A lot of time, it's hip strength that is the issue when you are having pain in the knee. Definitely see a physio to see if your mechanics are off.... I have a leg length so I needed sports orthotics for a my longer runs. See them before the marathon- hopefully they will understand that NOT running is not an option!
  • ATT949
    ATT949 Posts: 1,245 Member
    You have classic symptoms of ITBS.

    If you hit runnersworld.com or any other site on running, you'll find scads of info on diagnosing and treating this issue.

    I got nailed by ITBS as I was training for my HM in August, 2011. If you look closely at my avatar picture, you can see that I'm wearing a Nathan water vest and, tucked away in the right hand pouch, was a little roller ball gizmo that I brought along just in case I needed to "roll out" the IT band.

    Relief was pretty straightforward — quality time with a foam roller. The roller I used was about 6" in diameter and it cleared the issue up very quickly.

    See in a doc/PT can't hurt but there's so much info about the common runner's injuries that you might save yourself a trip.

    I don't count out acupuncture as a treatment regimen but I do understand its limitations. Acupuncture, which has quite an interesting history, has zero ability to heal but it does have value. The double blind tests that have been conducted have shown that it's as powerful as a placebo and, as the medical world understands, the placebo effect can be very powerful. It won't cure ITBS but it may help by masking the symptoms.

    I got my ITBS that regular way - doing too much, too soon. If you've amped up your mileage (you should start tapering soon, right?), that might be what brought it on.



    Insofar as magnesium — that's very hot right now. My fiancée runs a medically-supervised weight loss clinic and she's heard a lot of buzz about it. Will it do anyting? I haven't looked at the results of the RCT's yet but I suspect that magnesium, like the dozens or hundreds of other "breakthroughs supplements", will pan out to be "much ado about nothing".



    Good luck with this and your race!




    The Nathan is here:
    http://www.nathansports.com/our-products/hydrationnutrition/race-vests/hpl-020
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