Frustrated?? Before you go and eat back your exercise calori
Prefessa
Posts: 90
Get to understand the real skinny on energy balance. If you are getting results then ignore this post...if your stuck...keep reading!
I have spent the better part of the past few weeks on a mission! I started out not eating all my exercise calories back and lost no weight and then I ate em all back and gained 4 pounds in a month, thats when I took a step back. First and formost....
TDEE is Total daily energy expenditure....It is your Resting Metabolic Rate multipled by a factor based on your activity level. Sooo...What factor do you choose??? Well folks...unless your a Roofer, Landscaper, Carpenter, or Construction Worker...I would err on the side of conservatism. Ask yourself...except for gym time...how active am I?? Do I sit? Stand or walk most of the day?? I now choose 1.2 sedentary!
Second of all...everything you get from the Net that is calculated....is just an estimate. It seems that formulas such as the Ketch-McKardle for estimating RMR are pretty accurate...but RMR only accounts for about 2/3 of our energy needs and for those that work out 6 days a week like I do...maybe only 1/2!!
What about when you sleep??? For most "healthy Folks with normal BMI...Sleeping Metabolic Rate=RMR...but if your are overweight....Sleeping Metabolic rate is less than RMR and the higher your BMI, the lower your Sleeping Metabolic Rate.
AnsweR to all this insantity....buy a good heart rate monitor that allows you to measure and input BOTH your VO2 Max and Heart Rate Max. If your are under 40 years old...220-age is pretty good....but if you are older...especially over 50...The best formula to use is 206.3 - (0.711 × Age).
Also you could determine your True HRM with various bench tests, or during a medically supervised stress test.
Why is it important...well for a HR monitor to do the best job at calulating calorie expenditure...it needs to know your true V02 Max and HRM as well as your age, weight, height ect.
Okay...so what about Active Metabolic Rate...in other words...you not sleeping, your not working out, what do you burn...this is an important number to know, because you need to SUBTRACT this from your workout calories. So if you burn 120 cals/hr not working out, but you just worked out intensly for 1 hour and you determined you burned 720 calories...that includes the 120 calories you would have burned anyway...you yneed to back those out...so net you burned 600 EXTRA calories.
So lets assume you went out...bought a good HRM(I have the Polar FT-40) did the "Own index" fitness test and determined your V02 Max, Either had your HRM determined, or used a more accurate formula(post age 40) to determine your true maximum heart rate...what to do do??
TDEE= RMR x Factor= Active Metabolic rate x hrs Awake +Sleeping Metabolic Rate x hrs Asleep.
So Active Metabolic Rate/hr (what you need to subtract from exercise calories) is (TDEE-Sleeping MR x Hrs sleeping)/Hrs awake.
So to measure RMR get up in the morning, consume no coffee and do no exercise other than maybe going to the bathroom. Strap on the heart rate monitor and lie down quietly undesturbed and click the remote for 1 hr, measure calories burned...there it is your Resting Metabolic Rate/HR.
So when you go to bed set your alarm clock for a predetermined time (I did it for 3-4 hrs) and strap on the HRM go to bed, when the alarm goes off, get your calories burned divide by the time asleep....that is your sleeping metabolic rate/hr. What if its less....Then your true RMR is RMR/hr x Hrs awake + SMR x hrs asleep. Once you get your true RMR then multiply it by the appropriate activity factor to get TDEE.
So now calculate AMR(Active Metabolic rate/ hr)=(TDEE-SMR x hrs Asleep)/Hrs awake.
So now you should have an accurate measure of RMR, AMR, SMR and TDEE....so now you take the calories burned that your HRM says you burned and REMOVE the calorie Contribution for AMR.
For instance my AMR is 100 cals/hr or 1.67 cals/min.
This AM I biked at 14 Mph average for 1 hr 93 minutes....My HRM read 851 cals base calories for 93 minutes is 155 cals
My Net Burn is....696 cals
Guess what...MFP said based on my input data(height,weight age, sex ect) I shoud be burning 1114 cals! an error of 60%...so If I ate back those calories...I would gain back almost a pound a week!! Which...Yeah I did!
My issue was I was grossly over determining my cals burned and overeating to compensate for a falsley high calorie burn. and going into calorie surplus! Likely I was also under reporting Calories in. It is difficult to nail calories in if you eat foods that have many ingredients and you use a generic calorie consumption. Like for me making Turkey Meatloaf, but getting lazy and using the calories per serving for Meatloaf, Turkey, Generic Recipe.
MFP did in my case calculate my RMR and TDEE to within 20 calories! BUT...thats because I am fortunate to have my RMR equal to my Sleeping Metabloic Rate! For the Obese or Morbidly Obese Sleeping Metobolic Rate can be 20-40 percent LOWER than RMR according to the scientific literature!, which can overestimate RMR and TDEE.
So there you have it....The first law of Thermodynamics as applied to weight loss!!! Enjoy!
I have spent the better part of the past few weeks on a mission! I started out not eating all my exercise calories back and lost no weight and then I ate em all back and gained 4 pounds in a month, thats when I took a step back. First and formost....
TDEE is Total daily energy expenditure....It is your Resting Metabolic Rate multipled by a factor based on your activity level. Sooo...What factor do you choose??? Well folks...unless your a Roofer, Landscaper, Carpenter, or Construction Worker...I would err on the side of conservatism. Ask yourself...except for gym time...how active am I?? Do I sit? Stand or walk most of the day?? I now choose 1.2 sedentary!
Second of all...everything you get from the Net that is calculated....is just an estimate. It seems that formulas such as the Ketch-McKardle for estimating RMR are pretty accurate...but RMR only accounts for about 2/3 of our energy needs and for those that work out 6 days a week like I do...maybe only 1/2!!
What about when you sleep??? For most "healthy Folks with normal BMI...Sleeping Metabolic Rate=RMR...but if your are overweight....Sleeping Metabolic rate is less than RMR and the higher your BMI, the lower your Sleeping Metabolic Rate.
AnsweR to all this insantity....buy a good heart rate monitor that allows you to measure and input BOTH your VO2 Max and Heart Rate Max. If your are under 40 years old...220-age is pretty good....but if you are older...especially over 50...The best formula to use is 206.3 - (0.711 × Age).
Also you could determine your True HRM with various bench tests, or during a medically supervised stress test.
Why is it important...well for a HR monitor to do the best job at calulating calorie expenditure...it needs to know your true V02 Max and HRM as well as your age, weight, height ect.
Okay...so what about Active Metabolic Rate...in other words...you not sleeping, your not working out, what do you burn...this is an important number to know, because you need to SUBTRACT this from your workout calories. So if you burn 120 cals/hr not working out, but you just worked out intensly for 1 hour and you determined you burned 720 calories...that includes the 120 calories you would have burned anyway...you yneed to back those out...so net you burned 600 EXTRA calories.
So lets assume you went out...bought a good HRM(I have the Polar FT-40) did the "Own index" fitness test and determined your V02 Max, Either had your HRM determined, or used a more accurate formula(post age 40) to determine your true maximum heart rate...what to do do??
TDEE= RMR x Factor= Active Metabolic rate x hrs Awake +Sleeping Metabolic Rate x hrs Asleep.
So Active Metabolic Rate/hr (what you need to subtract from exercise calories) is (TDEE-Sleeping MR x Hrs sleeping)/Hrs awake.
So to measure RMR get up in the morning, consume no coffee and do no exercise other than maybe going to the bathroom. Strap on the heart rate monitor and lie down quietly undesturbed and click the remote for 1 hr, measure calories burned...there it is your Resting Metabolic Rate/HR.
So when you go to bed set your alarm clock for a predetermined time (I did it for 3-4 hrs) and strap on the HRM go to bed, when the alarm goes off, get your calories burned divide by the time asleep....that is your sleeping metabolic rate/hr. What if its less....Then your true RMR is RMR/hr x Hrs awake + SMR x hrs asleep. Once you get your true RMR then multiply it by the appropriate activity factor to get TDEE.
So now calculate AMR(Active Metabolic rate/ hr)=(TDEE-SMR x hrs Asleep)/Hrs awake.
So now you should have an accurate measure of RMR, AMR, SMR and TDEE....so now you take the calories burned that your HRM says you burned and REMOVE the calorie Contribution for AMR.
For instance my AMR is 100 cals/hr or 1.67 cals/min.
This AM I biked at 14 Mph average for 1 hr 93 minutes....My HRM read 851 cals base calories for 93 minutes is 155 cals
My Net Burn is....696 cals
Guess what...MFP said based on my input data(height,weight age, sex ect) I shoud be burning 1114 cals! an error of 60%...so If I ate back those calories...I would gain back almost a pound a week!! Which...Yeah I did!
My issue was I was grossly over determining my cals burned and overeating to compensate for a falsley high calorie burn. and going into calorie surplus! Likely I was also under reporting Calories in. It is difficult to nail calories in if you eat foods that have many ingredients and you use a generic calorie consumption. Like for me making Turkey Meatloaf, but getting lazy and using the calories per serving for Meatloaf, Turkey, Generic Recipe.
MFP did in my case calculate my RMR and TDEE to within 20 calories! BUT...thats because I am fortunate to have my RMR equal to my Sleeping Metabloic Rate! For the Obese or Morbidly Obese Sleeping Metobolic Rate can be 20-40 percent LOWER than RMR according to the scientific literature!, which can overestimate RMR and TDEE.
So there you have it....The first law of Thermodynamics as applied to weight loss!!! Enjoy!
0
Replies
-
wow, lots of info there and it totally makes sense....if I sent you my numbers would you just do the math for me
0 -
Interesting. I'd heard that a HRM doesn't accurately calculate calories burned when you are not doing steady state aerobic exercise. Do you know if this is true?0
-
Would be interesting to see how a BodyMedia Fit or BodyBugg correlates to the tests that you mentioned! Sure be easier if they did 0
-
Don't be afraid to...0
-
bump to read later0
-
Interesting. I'd heard that a HRM doesn't accurately calculate calories burned when you are not doing steady state aerobic exercise. Do you know if this is true?
That is true, as the HRM bases intensity and oxygen uptake based on HR but HR does not cause these things it is just used as a proxy. and for other types of exercise the HR is elevated due to other physiological responses, so the oxygen uptake calculation in the HRM would not be accurate and more then likely over estimate your burn doing non-cardio activity.0 -
My issue was I was grossly over determining my cals burned and overeating to compensate for a falsley high calorie burn. and going into calorie surplus! Likely I was also under reporting Calories in. It is difficult to nail calories in if you eat foods that have many ingredients and you use a generic calorie consumption. Like for me making Turkey Meatloaf, but getting lazy and using the calories per serving for Meatloaf, Turkey, Generic Recipe.
Thanks for posting this.
I honestly wonder just how many of the "I'm eating 1200 calories but not losing weight" posts on these forums are due to just this.
Not everyone has the time or inclination to go through all of the calculations that you did, but I think that when we are not losing weight and/or inches, we should 1) be patient - wait a few weeks; 2) look really, really hard at whether we are recording everything we eat and recording it accurately (that includes correct portion sizes); and 3) reassess whether our exercise burns are realistic/accurate.0 -
Bump0
-
so.......2+2 doesn't =4?
Nah, JK. Good stuff, nice article.
0 -
i feel like im in pre calc class... i need to read this again...0
-
Interesting. I'd heard that a HRM doesn't accurately calculate calories burned when you are not doing steady state aerobic exercise. Do you know if this is true?
A real HRM (used to work with Polar) is designed to ONLY be worn during exercise. Also, the chest strap is the ONLY accurate read of a calorie burn. Those without the chest strap are not worth it and are not accurate.0 -
Thanks for this information. I'm going to do some recalculations.0
-
Great info here! Thanks. One reason I underestimate burn and over estimate calorie intake. Easier to make up for the error!
People with thyroid problems will have even lower RMR and SMR than most, and I've seen no one take this info into account for the calculations. So we need to be even more careful than others!0 -
Interesting. I'd heard that a HRM doesn't accurately calculate calories burned when you are not doing steady state aerobic exercise. Do you know if this is true?
I don't know, but I have heard the same. I've also read that it may not be accurate for those who are not yet "fit". Until you reach a certain fitness level your body does not use oxygen in the manner that HRM measure so it may over estimate your calories burned.0 -
bump for when I can wrap my brain around0
-
This sounds great but is there an easier way to do this? I am a stay at home homeschooling mom of six and I just don't have the time or money for a hrm. would it be okay to eat back only half of my exercise calories ? Do you think I would still get results?0
-
Wow ...Great Information...i will definatly do some calculations, I have a hypothyroid and I have always been able to excercise and maintain...but w/in the last couple of months i have gained and nothing seems to work...I have tried eating less , eating more...excerising , weights...and it's just has been very frustrating to know ...you are doing the right thing and your body is in a Hault!! I do have a HRM ...I will try this ...hope this works for me!! thanks for posting!!!0
-
bump0
-
Interesting. I'd heard that a HRM doesn't accurately calculate calories burned when you are not doing steady state aerobic exercise. Do you know if this is true?
Only if you DON'T subtract calorie contribution from your Active Metabolic Rate like I have posted. Also a HRM that does not allow you to enter your personal V02 max and HR Max will be less accurate...thats why it pays to buy one with those features. HR max doesn't reall change much, but as you get fit your V02 max will.
For example yesterday I did 1 hr of Yoga/ Pilates...I burned 219 cals, but subtracting the 100 cals I would have burned anyhow...gives me a total calorie burn of 119 cals....thats a bit more accurate for a class that essentially doesn't get your heart rate much above 100 and you don't sweat much. Same with weight training and other anerobic training.
This AM Bike to work burned 374 cals...MFP clocked it at 790!! Yet yesterdays bike home....same route same miles, brisk NW wind in my face the whole time and I had a Dr's Appt to get to, so I rode with maximal effort, often hitting my anerobic threshhold....672 cals!!0 -
Would be interesting to see how a BodyMedia Fit or BodyBugg correlates to the tests that you mentioned! Sure be easier if they did
You cant beat a Body Bugg for accuracy....its a device that measures calorie burn three ways....Heart Rate, Conductance(sweat) and Body Heat...plus you wear the thing 24/7 so you know just how many calories you burned in a day for all your activities. If it wasnt for the fact that you need to rent there web based software to use it I wouldn't have an issue paying for one. I don't like the idea of paying for an expensive piece of equiptment then having to continue to pay to use it. Sell me the device, sell me the software and be done taking money from me!0 -
This sounds great but is there an easier way to do this? I am a stay at home homeschooling mom of six and I just don't have the time or money for a hrm. would it be okay to eat back only half of my exercise calories ? Do you think I would still get results?
Yup! All you need to do is determine everything empirically. You need to have the dicipline to very accurately count calories in, then be committed to eating back say 1/2 your exercise calories. Then after each week, measure calories in, calories out and then measure weight loss. For every pound lost you created a 3500 cal deficit......so if you loose nothing for like 2 weeks, then eat back like 25% of your exercise calories. It can be done only if your workout regimin is predictable. For instance things like running, or outdoor cycling can vary drastically with terain or prevalent winds, but a machine like a treadmill is more consistent. Same with classes like Spin or Zumba, there are easy instructors and difficult ones. Once you figure out what it takes to loose a pound everything can be back calculated.
So if your TDEE as determined is say 1500 cals, and your lifesyle predominately sedentary....Divide 1500 by 1.2 and that is your RMR. make the assumption that RMR=SMR and do the math to figure out your AMR/hr that you now subtract from the exercise calories given by MFP...it takes a little more time and effort....but it costs nothing. Its like sweat equity!0 -
wow, lots of info there and it totally makes sense....if I sent you my numbers would you just do the math for me
Sure! PM me the numbers and I'll be glad to help!0 -
Would be interesting to see how a BodyMedia Fit or BodyBugg correlates to the tests that you mentioned! Sure be easier if they did
I wear a BodyMedia Fit. I'm a pretty small person (5'5", 121lbs) and I burn about 1 calorie a minute at rest (sleeping, watching tv, driving in a car, etc.) so about 1440 day even if I'm on my rear end all day long. I'm not a roofer or construction worker but I have a work-at-home job with a house, husband and 2 children to care for so I'm rarely on my rear end all day long (some days I wish!).
On a "sedentary" day for me (no formal workout) I usually burn 2000-2100 calories. Workout days for me range from a burn of 2500-3700 depending what I'm doing. I found that my BMF burns are *pretty* similar to what MFP gives, some a little more, some a little less. I think a lot of people (me included before I got my BMF) discount how much little daily activities add up.
Just FYI if you are super-super honest (like maybe try writing down for a couple days the exact minutes you do things) this calculator is quite accurate for giving you a TDEE:
http://www.health-calc.com/diet/energy-expenditure-advanced
If I plug in the minutes I'm actually doing the activities then it gives me just about spot-on the same burn as my BMF shows.0 -
[/quote]
I found that my BMF burns are *pretty* similar to what MFP gives, some a little more, some a little less. I think a lot of people (me included before I got my BMF) discount how much little daily activities add up.
[/quote]
What that means is your body fits the statistics used to calculate average net calorie expenditure that MFP uses, For those of us on the tail ends of the bell curve...a device like a BMF or Body Bugg are great tools.
I know what you mean about activities adding up....When I fish, I can burn up to about 400 cals/hr depending on what type and in the past a good season of surf casting would often strip 20+ pounds off me by the time I stowed the gear away for the season. Also I can relate to houshold chores(Mowing Lawns and Landscaping) and chasing after my kids can give significant calorie burn.0 -
Bump0
-
bump for later0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.7K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.3K Health and Weight Loss
- 176K Food and Nutrition
- 47.5K Recipes
- 232.6K Fitness and Exercise
- 431 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.6K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8.1K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.4K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.8K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 1.2K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions