3500 Calories?

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  • jsapninz
    jsapninz Posts: 909 Member
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    I am pretty strict about all of this.

    Again, does that mean you are skipping some days, meals? Are you measuring your food or just estimating?
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    I've seen 3 dietitians who have told me NOT to eat exercise calories back because I'm still so over weight (244lbs) they said I don't need to until I get a LOT closer to goal. I'd just just upping it by a couple of hundred calories and see how you go... I don't know the science, but 3 of them all have the same opinion and I've been losing weight well. Zara

    And the vast majority that have stated that same thing realized they did NOT explain how MFP works, there is NOT a deficit to your total daily expenditure, but only to non-exercise daily activity.

    When they know you already have a 1000 cal deficit, and they realize adding another 500-700 cal to that deficit by not feeding your workouts, it doesn't take much to do the math and realize what will happen in regards to a safe deficit, and side effects.

    Muscle has weight too, and burning off 600 cal of muscle shows more weight loss than 3500 cal in a lb of fat. And too big a deficit with lots of exercise will do that sadly. As you'll discover when you get closer to goal weight and can't seem to eat more for maintenance level.
  • MereBear1985
    MereBear1985 Posts: 36 Member
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    It's going to be different for everyone. I eat my BMR and eat back my exercise calories and I am steadily losing. You just have to play with the number and see what works for you.
  • dltaylor4
    dltaylor4 Posts: 6 Member
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    Your BMR looks about right. Add in 600 exercise calories and you get yourself up to the range you cited TO STAY AT 325. But, to lose 2 pounds a week, you need a 1000 calorie per day deficit. So if you do your exercise EVERY DAY you can eat 2400-2500 calories per day. You'll need a 7000 calorie per week deficit to accomplish the 2# per week.


    This might be were I am having trouble understanding. They way I understand, I need to take the 10-15% cal from my TDEE, but at least eat my BMR everyday. I am not even getting to my BMR right now.

    I know its a numbers game, but I am an engineer, and that is how my mind works. I wish I could just forget it and continue on.
  • bagge72
    bagge72 Posts: 1,377 Member
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    How many inches are you losing? I think that might be a better measurement for you. If you are working out 5 days a week you are likely adding a lot of muscle carrying around that weight, and you are also retaining a lot of water weight. This is going to make your weight loss slower, but your size should be decreasing at a good rate. Take pictures, and don't worry about the scale as much unless you don't see a change in size either.
  • dltaylor4
    dltaylor4 Posts: 6 Member
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    I am pretty strict about all of this.

    Again, does that mean you are skipping some days, meals? Are you measuring your food or just estimating?

    I have a scale at home. They salads I eat are mostly from bags and restaurants, so I use what they have on the side or web site for the numbers.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    Your BMR looks about right. Add in 600 exercise calories and you get yourself up to the range you cited TO STAY AT 325. But, to lose 2 pounds a week, you need a 1000 calorie per day deficit. So if you do your exercise EVERY DAY you can eat 2400-2500 calories per day. You'll need a 7000 calorie per week deficit to accomplish the 2# per week.

    Actually, you are mixing up BMR with TDEE, or in this case, non-exercise maintenance.

    And the fact he HAS been doing that deficit this whole time and weight loss has slowed, it's exactly what is expected from metabolism that has had to slow down from lack of food. Not much, but a little slowdown.

    But then again, he's been eating at 2200, exercise takes 700 avg, leaving 1600 for the BMR, when his body was willing to spend upwards of 2600 doing the same activity.

    So until it slowed down, he had better deficit, but now it's closer to 300-400 probably.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    How many inches are you losing? I think that might be a better measurement for you. If you are working out 5 days a week you are likely adding a lot of muscle carrying around that weight, and you are also retaining a lot of water weight. This is going to make your weight loss slower, but your size should be decreasing at a good rate. Take pictures, and don't worry about the scale as much unless you don't see a change in size either.

    You literally cannot gain muscle if your body can't take care of the basic functions of the BMR. That gets priority.

    You can have muscle store more energy, which would indeed cause not so much weight loss, for about a week or two.

    To actually gain muscle on deficit, you need a small deficit, focus on weight lifting, and enough protein.
    And not be trim and fit already.
  • jsapninz
    jsapninz Posts: 909 Member
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    This might be were I am having trouble understanding. They way I understand, I need to take the 10-15% cal from my TDEE, but at least eat my BMR everyday. I am not even getting to my BMR right now.

    I know its a numbers game, but I am an engineer, and that is how my mind works. I wish I could just forget it and continue on.

    You can do it either way: the 10-15% cut of TDEE method is supposed to make sure you aren't losing too much (so to stave off people who only have 15 lbs to lose and shouldn't lose 2 lbs a week), but you can also do it from a driect calories cut from your TDEE approach, such as 2 lbs a week = 1000 cals a day deficit (taking care not to go way under your BMR). It's just a different way of calculating it.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    This might be were I am having trouble understanding. They way I understand, I need to take the 10-15% cal from my TDEE, but at least eat my BMR everyday. I am not even getting to my BMR right now.

    I know its a numbers game, but I am an engineer, and that is how my mind works. I wish I could just forget it and continue on.

    You are correct, that above post was the wrong way to put it, confusion on BMR and TDEE.

    And you can take 20% cut to TDEE safely for now, and should be above better estimated BMR.

    Just make sure to include exercise calories in sedentary estimate before taking 20% cut.

    Read my other post above.
  • bagge72
    bagge72 Posts: 1,377 Member
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    How many inches are you losing? I think that might be a better measurement for you. If you are working out 5 days a week you are likely adding a lot of muscle carrying around that weight, and you are also retaining a lot of water weight. This is going to make your weight loss slower, but your size should be decreasing at a good rate. Take pictures, and don't worry about the scale as much unless you don't see a change in size either.

    You literally cannot gain muscle if your body can't take care of the basic functions of the BMR. That gets priority.

    You can have muscle store more energy, which would indeed cause not so much weight loss, for about a week or two.

    To actually gain muscle on deficit, you need a small deficit, focus on weight lifting, and enough protein.
    And not be trim and fit already.

    If this is true, I'm not sure how I have increased my weight training at the gym over the last two month so significantly. I mean like going from being able to bench 225 to 335 now, being able to shoulder press 185 to now finishing sets with 245, and so on for each muscle group, and that is with having a deficit lower than what I'm suppose to be taking in. The truth is that he is taking in enough calories to gain muscle, it's not enough of a deficit to stop that he would probably have to eat well below the 2000 range for that to happen. He is big enough that the rules don't always apply the same, and he can eat less than the websites tells him, and still see results. The problem is probably that his metabolism is just slowing down to much because of the drastic change, but his body can still function perfectly fine eating around 2000 calories, and taking in a good amount of protein.
  • thomassd1969
    thomassd1969 Posts: 564 Member
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    So, I have been reading everything on this forum I can find about how to figure out your maint. calories, BMR, TDEE, knocking off 10-15% and losing a couple of pounds a week. Also eating back you exercise calories. Here is my problem:

    I am 37, 6'6" 325 pounds.

    I have used Fitness Frog to figure the number out.

    TDEE for a Desk Job 3400
    BMR is 2830.

    I work out 5 days a week. According to my HRM, I am burning 600-800 calories, on average, a day.

    So my TDEE * 85% = 2900 + work out calories of 600 = 3500 calories a day.

    For the last couple of months, I have been taking in about 2000-2200 calories a day. According to everything I have read, that is way to low. I have been losing weight, but very slowly.

    So my questions are:

    1. Am I figuring this correctly, or am I missing something?
    2. How the H*LL am I supposed to eat 3500 calories a day short of eating a whole pizza for lunch and fried chicken and mashed potatoes for dinner, EVERY NIGHT?

    Like I said, I have been eating as healthy as I can for a couple of months, hardly ever hungry, and I can't get over 2500.

    Guess I should go on a KFC, Pizza Hut and Dairy Queen diet.

    Any suggestions are welcome.

    Thanks
    My finacee' is almost the same as you except when he started he was 347 pounds. He is 36, and 6ft 5in.
    He was told by his doctor that he should be consuming 3500-4000 calories a day. He is a welder so his job is very physical. He also works out so he was told to add 500 calories on workout days. We tracked his normal eating before making adjustments and he wasnt eating enough. We switched to him eating the amount recommended by the doctor and he has lost 40 pounds since Jan.
    Good luck
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    If this is true, I'm not sure how I have increased my weight training at the gym over the last two month so significantly. I mean like going from being able to bench 225 to 335 now, being able to shoulder press 185 to now finishing sets with 245, and so on for each muscle group, and that is with having a deficit lower than what I'm suppose to be taking in. The truth is that he is taking in enough calories to gain muscle, it's not enough of a deficit to stop that he would probably have to eat well below the 2000 range for that to happen. He is big enough that the rules don't always apply the same, and he can eat less than the websites tells him, and still see results. The problem is probably that his metabolism is just slowing down to much because of the drastic change, but his body can still function perfectly fine eating around 2000 calories, and taking in a good amount of protein.

    Oh, your muscle can get stronger, and better able to work, which is enough. And then it can be trained to store more glucose/water, so bigger. And post workout, water retention on top of that for repair, swelling.

    But let that reach steady state for temp things, and you are very unlikely to have actually gained/added muscle.

    Here's study showing the difference between big and little deficits. And while the big deficit group did increase their strength still, they didn't increase muscle.

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/447514-athletes-can-gain-muscle-while-losing-fat-on-deficit-diet

    The problem especially being slowing the metabolism down. The BMR only slows down so much, and then what the body does for the BMR to still be left with required energy for required functions, is slow down energy consumed on all other daily activity and body functions beyond BMR.
  • jcomley1
    jcomley1 Posts: 133
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    I know this advice may not seem very scientific, but sometimes theres a danger of being overwhelmed by the numbers instead of listening to your body. If you feel like you are eating healthy, you aren't hungry, you feel like you have energy, and your workouts are energetic, you are seeing progress and you are eating 5-6 small meals a day rather then your 3 large meals. I should say dont sweat it. Scuse the pun....

    "If you feel like..." Losing weight is science, it's not about feelings.

    I know you mean well, but this sort of advice is unhelpful.

    Sorry but I disagree.
    I dont know about you, but i think I know my own body. I dont mean disregard the science of weightloss, or muscle building, or anything like that. The OP was saying he is worried that he is not capable of eating the full 3500 calorie allowance a day- I dont think that its right to ever force feed yourself food if your body simply isnt hungry. I am also aware that you can train yourself to not be hungry- which is why I specified, as long as you are eating 5-6 good healthy meals a day. Science isnt everything... dont listen to your feelings by any means but do listen to your body....

    However, people do things difference ways. Lets let the OP decide for himself whose advice is helpful. :smile:
  • jcomley1
    jcomley1 Posts: 133
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  • dltaylor4
    dltaylor4 Posts: 6 Member
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    How many inches are you losing? I think that might be a better measurement for you. If you are working out 5 days a week you are likely adding a lot of muscle carrying around that weight, and you are also retaining a lot of water weight. This is going to make your weight loss slower, but your size should be decreasing at a good rate. Take pictures, and don't worry about the scale as much unless you don't see a change in size either.

    I have lost about 3" from my abdomen, and about 2" from my waist. Don't get me wrong, I am losing. I can fit into pants I have not been able to in a couple of years, and a feel a lot better. My concern is, should more be coming off. I am happy to see the scale going down and not up. But everything I have read says eat more to lose more. For me that appears to be almost double what an ordinary person eats. That scares me, that's a lot of food if you are heating healthy. I could knock back 3000 calories in a sitting if I go to McD's. A couple burgers, frys and a lrg. Coke. Thats how I got here. 3000 calories eating lean meats, green veggies and water, I feel like all I do is eat and I am not even close.
  • dltaylor4
    dltaylor4 Posts: 6 Member
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    Thanks for the info everyone. What I got from all of your input is I need to eat more. Maybe I will try 3000 calories on work out days and 2500 on non-work out days. That's about 1000 more a day than I do right now. Anyone ever explode from eating too much healthy food?

    Any more suggestions on Calorie dense nutritious foods? I know almonds, peanuts, peanut butter. My fat will go through the roof.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    I have lost about 3" from my abdomen, and about 2" from my waist. Don't get me wrong, I am losing. I can fit into pants I have not been able to in a couple of years, and a feel a lot better. My concern is, should more be coming off. I am happy to see the scale going down and not up. But everything I have read says eat more to lose more. For me that appears to be almost double what an ordinary person eats. That scares me, that's a lot of food if you are heating healthy. I could knock back 3000 calories in a sitting if I go to McD's. A couple burgers, frys and a lrg. Coke. Thats how I got here. 3000 calories eating lean meats, green veggies and water, I feel like all I do is eat and I am not even close.

    While it's true it sounds like a lot now to eat, you are also paying attention to calorie levels now, compare that to what the level must have been to get you here. Probably have no idea about the past.

    If you had a typical day of food you can remember decently, go fill out a day back in December last year to see how many cal's it was.
    That's the level that got you in trouble.

    And you are a big guy, not just now, but anyway. But especially now, your metabolism has a lot to take care of, might as well let it do that burning fully high.

    And forget lean low fat/no-fat versions of anything. Full fat milk, cheese, cottage cheese, yogurt, fat vegetables (except grain oil as mentioned above), ect. Nuts, ect.

    You got the nutrition aspect, just need the energy aspect, And 2 tbsn's peanut butter is about 200 cal and decent little snack with protein and carbs, just more fat obviously. Get natural version if desired.

    You are correct though, you could be loosing faster probably. And you have the correct direction in mind.
  • Musikelektronik
    Musikelektronik Posts: 739 Member
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    I started this Journey on Feb 1st. SO I am about 13 weeks in, and have lost 20 pounds.

    That's 1.5 lbs/week. You're doing great, as far as I'm concerned!
  • baribeau375
    baribeau375 Posts: 13 Member
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    Yeah, I'm an engineer as well. TDEE is simply another way of stating BMR + the energy requirement associated with your lifestyle. So, when you START with a TDEE Value, you arrive at BMR by "backing out" the activity level you used to calculate the TDEE. The "back-out" % would vary depending on the way you characterized the level of activity when you arrived at your TDEE..

    All that being said, if your execise is truly above and beyond what you chatacterized when you calculated your TDEE, then you are "entitled" to an added caloric alotment based on your workouts. So, your angst is not likely with the numbers and they will prove themselves (or the scale will when you step on it every week) in short order.

    But, I still go back to saying that I am confounded by people our size saying they are having trouble eating 2400 calories. It wasn't hard to eat the calories that got us to 300+!

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