Dear people that say large weight gain is muscle..

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  • taliesyn_
    taliesyn_ Posts: 219 Member
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    Had this discussion on an MFP friend's wall the other day (we were in agreement!). Muscle (1.06kg/litre) is more dense than fat (0.92kg/litre), but even assuming you could convert fat to muscle while in calorie deficit (which is damned hard as muscle requires about 3 times as many calories to maintain at rest as fat does), you would have to convert around 4 litres (by volume) of fat to muscle to gain a single pound. 4 litres is more than a US gallon and slightly less than an Imperial one.

    Now if I could build an exercise machine that could help me do that safely each week, I'd sell it and make my fortune!
  • d2footballJRC
    d2footballJRC Posts: 2,684 Member
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    A very pertinent post. I still see 'muscle weighs heavier than fat' here on MFP and I see calls of muscle gain within days of a diet starting. People really seem to struggle with seperating fact from fiction. I'm quite new (January this year) and have learned an awful lot but there's so much more to learn and implement.

    One thing I would like to know, if it isn't a daft question - where do you find out how much muscle mass you have? It would be useful to be able to measure the improvements month on month as I lift weights and find myself toning up.

    You need to get a your body fat percentage measured. From this you can calculate you lean mass (weight - (weight x (body_fat_percentage / 100))). You can't really measure just your muscle mass. Lean mass includes muscle, bone, organs, connective tissue, etc. Everything but the fat. Once you know your percentage you can calculate the amount of fat and amount of lean mass. Then you do it again at a later date, and see the progress.

    Their are some scales out there that claim to measure body fat, but the most accurate way is a caliper test, or water displacement test, or DEXA scan.

    Cool tip for people as well.. If you want a water displacement test (I called it water dip) or a DEXA scan, call your local university and many of them will scan you a small charge or a donation. They use it to let students learn how to do the tests! I've done it several times that way!
  • kurenaikumo
    kurenaikumo Posts: 271 Member
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    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhahahahhaah Jabba the Hutt FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :heart:
  • Awkward30
    Awkward30 Posts: 1,927 Member
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    I like this! My pet peeve is this. By looking at my admittedly crudely measured body fat % I've put on 0.5 lb of muscle in like 2 months of strength training. And that's really not bad for a woman in a calorie deficit. If you can do better, bottle your hormones and sell them!
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    The thing that gets ME is when people don't post the time over which the gain has happened, or their lifestyle before/after starting, or their build, or anything. It bothers me when people say something is impossible only because we all carry, hold, and adjust weight differently.

    It's like when people say 10lbs = 7 inch loss. No, not for everyone. Same with this muscle business. If you have a lot of muscle to begin with, if all of that muscle bulks just a little bit, you can easily gain several pounds... However, it's outside of the "averages" and is not the case in most circumstances.

    So, say someone posts they gained 8 in 2 weeks. Well, if they were very tall, this is possible. Not LIKELY, but it's possible. I just get tired of it when people make blanket statements, because this is a journey that is very specific to the individual, and though it can be a good jumping off place to start at the averages... I think people should encourage those that are freaking out to get personalized professional assistance, instead of asking for MFPinions.

    8lb in 2 weeks is not possible even if you were 16 foot tall.
  • tigersword
    tigersword Posts: 8,059 Member
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    The thing that gets ME is when people don't post the time over which the gain has happened, or their lifestyle before/after starting, or their build, or anything. It bothers me when people say something is impossible only because we all carry, hold, and adjust weight differently.

    It's like when people say 10lbs = 7 inch loss. No, not for everyone. Same with this muscle business. If you have a lot of muscle to begin with, if all of that muscle bulks just a little bit, you can easily gain several pounds... However, it's outside of the "averages" and is not the case in most circumstances.

    So, say someone posts they gained 8 in 2 weeks. Well, if they were very tall, this is possible. Not LIKELY, but it's possible. I just get tired of it when people make blanket statements, because this is a journey that is very specific to the individual, and though it can be a good jumping off place to start at the averages... I think people should encourage those that are freaking out to get personalized professional assistance, instead of asking for MFPinions.

    The human body doesn't work like that. You don't gain tiny bits in different places to add up to huge gains. The human body is a whole system. It breaks down and builds up muscle tissue all over on a daily basis. Net gain or loss depends solely on the body's physical need, and appropriate nutrition. Even if your body did put on an extra pound of muscle in your arms, it probably removed 1 pound of muscle from other parts of the body that wasn't using it. It can't magically create something out of nothing.

    Think of a house made from blocks. You can build one of the walls higher by taking blocks off of the other 3 walls, but you still have the same amount of blocks. You can't build up all the walls without going out and getting more blocks. When a person is eating at a caloric deficit, they aren't adding any new blocks to their house, so they are not building muscle, especially in a matter of days.

    It's not a question of averages, it's a question of physics and biology.
  • DoubleE615312
    DoubleE615312 Posts: 173 Member
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    So what is it if your BF% goes down and your weight stays the same, but according to calculations your LBM goes up by 5 lbs within about a 5-6 week period? Along with all measurements going down?

    If you are using a electric resistance device then those are all over the place and hydration levels matter. If you are getting professional metered at say an air chamber or water dip then.. enjoy the early gains and/or genetics.

    I doubt it is genetics. It was done with calipers. She took each measurement 3 times. It just made me feel better because the scale hadn't moved but BF% went down by 3.4% and based on calculations I did, LBM went up by 5.88 lbs.
  • whayamean
    whayamean Posts: 50 Member
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    I am recovering from basically being in starvation mode for about a year and a half. Naturally I gained a little while transitioning from starvation mode low metabolism to more food higher metabolism. Everyone keeps telling me I'm gaining muscle. It's frustrating to hear even though you WISH it was true you KNOW it's not. I read recently that on the HIGH END a female will gain like 2.5 lbs a month in muscle... that's high end really pushing it. NO WAY you gained 8 lbs of muscle in a week. Fortunately for me my metabolism is picking up. I've gotta rely more on how my clothes fit than what that scale says anyway!
  • DoubleE615312
    DoubleE615312 Posts: 173 Member
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    So what is it if your BF% goes down and your weight stays the same, but according to calculations your LBM goes up by 5 lbs within about a 5-6 week period? Along with all measurements going down?
    LBM gains don't automatically mean muscle gains. LBM is everything in your body that isn't fat. Bone, organs, partially digested food, water, blood, nerves, skin, hair, teeth, ligaments, tendons, those are all part of lean mass. One thing that people often ignore when starting heavy weight training is the bone density effects. Lifting heavy weights requires strong, dense bones for support. Bones are living tissue, and they do get heavier and stronger when you exercise.

    I figured it wasn't all muscle, but it was nice to see since the scale wasn't moving....
  • d2footballJRC
    d2footballJRC Posts: 2,684 Member
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    So what is it if your BF% goes down and your weight stays the same, but according to calculations your LBM goes up by 5 lbs within about a 5-6 week period? Along with all measurements going down?
    LBM gains don't automatically mean muscle gains. LBM is everything in your body that isn't fat. Bone, organs, partially digested food, water, blood, nerves, skin, hair, teeth, ligaments, tendons, those are all part of lean mass. One thing that people often ignore when starting heavy weight training is the bone density effects. Lifting heavy weights requires strong, dense bones for support. Bones are living tissue, and they do get heavier and stronger when you exercise.

    I figured it wasn't all muscle, but it was nice to see since the scale wasn't moving....

    Measurements and BF% is a far superior way to measure progress than weight loss.
  • IpuffyheartHeelsinthegym
    IpuffyheartHeelsinthegym Posts: 5,573 Member
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    no no no, the fat turns INTO muscles.... and it WEIGHS more!

    Fat and muscle are composed of totally different cell structures, one cannot become the other.
    You can also not target an area and only lose fat there.
    FYI :wink:


    omg, you didn't REALLY think I was serious, did you?
  • maab_connor
    maab_connor Posts: 3,927 Member
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    crying.gif
  • d2footballJRC
    d2footballJRC Posts: 2,684 Member
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    no no no, the fat turns INTO muscles.... and it WEIGHS more!

    Fat and muscle are composed of totally different cell structures, one cannot become the other.
    You can also not target an area and only lose fat there.
    FYI :wink:




    omg, you didn't REALLY think I was serious, did you?

    You're not serious.....you mean my fat won't turn to muscle...

    136376%20-%20applejack%20crying_pony%20jappleack%20sad%20tears.png
  • lilRicki
    lilRicki Posts: 4,555 Member
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    that pictures is going on the funny pix thread lol
  • kludgood
    kludgood Posts: 172
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    This should be copied and pasted in the forums every day from now until the end of time...

    ^^^this exactly
  • spudlovie
    spudlovie Posts: 56 Member
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    I'm glad you posted this because I have been thinking if I lose all this fat and it turns to muscle and you tell me muscle weighs more then fat then the scale should go up not down. I knew it was water. But I'm glad somebody put it all out there
  • nikkijoshua
    nikkijoshua Posts: 85 Member
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    Great post. Much needed.
  • Patty_Petz
    Patty_Petz Posts: 91
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    no no no, the fat turns INTO muscles.... and it WEIGHS more!

    Fat and muscle are composed of totally different cell structures, one cannot become the other.
    You can also not target an area and only lose fat there.
    FYI :wink:

    L2sarcasm :embarassed:
  • Serenstar75
    Serenstar75 Posts: 258 Member
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    Awesomesauce! I love the post and that you broke it down as to WHY.

    People are thrilled and crushed also over 1-2 lb gains or losses. You kidding? I can weigh myself in the morning and weigh 3-4lbs more mid-day after eating, water drinking, etc. Let's not even think about once a month ridiculous water retention. The scale can't be our only deciding factor. The pic was hilarious as well.
  • poustotah
    poustotah Posts: 1,121 Member
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    I gained 5 lbs of muscle in a week. It always happens right after I eat a lot of pizza. . .

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