Experimenting with low carbs (Atkins)-Discuss

m60kaf · May 2012

For most of the year I have been on a very lean meat based diet (chicken) getting carbs from cereals, pasta and some rice. I have been loosing a very steady 1lb a week and know my maintain cals are 2750 (I eat 2250 to lose 1lb a week)

So I decided as a little experiment I could easily cut out my carbs keep very meat based and see if low carb / Atkins brings anything interesting up

So assuming the following info and facts:
1lb=3600 cals
After being a bit of a calorie cynic- I now totally believe all diets are calorie control -3600cals = lose a lb however you dress it up
I have been in Ketosis for 2 weeks - tested with ketone strips regularly
I have stuck to the <20g without fail - not cheated once
My food has been very fatty and horrible - not my sort of food anymore
I have actually felt relatively OK energy wise - Probably not quite as aggressive and up for it as I usually can be
I have been doing a new weights routine which is more intense - I have done 6 sessions
I am VERY good at weighing myself - I know my true weight - I'm not fooled by water weight loss/ retention etc
I am loosing the fat belly - to a level where even I'm happy so it must be a lot.

AND

I've lost 12248 / 3.5lb MORE than I would expect based on calories etc etc

ANY IDEAS???

yarwell · May 2012

I wasn't clear if you kept your calorie intake the same as before, and you said "I have been doing a new weights routine which is more intense" - would the latter account for some of it ?

chrishgt4 · May 2012

I think as above - it could be said that it is partly the new routine, which it may be, but since that is only for 6 sessions I can't see that accounting for anywhere near the 874/day mentioned. I'll be interested to see when you drop the carbs back in what happens with water weight.

I maintain that whilst there is a good amount of progress made - this is exactly in line with what would have been expected before cutting carbs. 2-3lbs of water weight + higher intensity workouts could easily be the answer.

Also, don't forget that you were doing this routine on a daily basis alongside the old weights programme....

Mindywv2003 · May 2012

I am on low carb regimen, It will be 4 weeks tomorrow and as of weigh in this morning I am down 17 lbs. and thats after a plateau for over a week .:yawn: I really like it..done it over 10 years ago but the wrong way .. less than 10 carbs a day and lost 67 lbs. in less than 4 months and did not exersise... needless to say I got hellashish kydney stones and had cosmetic surgery to remove all the access skin.. you must exersise! and the more you workout, you need to add more carbs and more protein. hope to do much better this timne around

BTW---Tried the shirataki noodles everone raving about..... excellent and only 1 carb!!:flowerforyou:

m60kaf · May 2012

I have been giving your answers some thought

I used to consistently eat 2250 calories. pretty much spot on to lose 1lb a week so daily I used to be eating bang on 2250 so my maintain same weight cals are 2250+(3600/7) = approx 2750

On zero carb I have been all over the place each day for cals -- the list I put up is the difference in cals from my maintaining 2750 so for example Monday I ate 3034. Add up all the differences and over two weeks I under ate my maintain weight calories by 2152. but have lost an equivalent of 14400

The conclusion I have come to is that one of the things on low carb is you are continuously told that one slip - half a mars bar, a scoop of potato the whole thing is ruined for days. This is constantly in your head so I have stuck to it bang on, no little extras AT ALL! I have also seen it as a bit of an experiment so I have stuck to it precisely

Normally to get to my 2750 figure I probably eat things that I dont put down, not much but daily the odd shake maybe a bowl of cereal because I have no energy (400 cals!!) so my daily maintain if I keep a really close record could be 3250.

So in 14 days ... 2152 under eaten + 2000 extra exercise + 14*400 bowls of cereal 5600 = 9750. plus probably approx 2000 less calories in alcohol because I have purposely had vodka instead of Guinness. kinda accounts for it all

So low cal is possibly a bit like 'only drink water' as a simple way to stop people drinking lots of calories. It uses the concept of a 3day loss of benefit if you cheat at all to keep the calories on track. - I feel slightly disappointed. No miracle here and another myth busted.

On the plus side I am now thinking about setting my daily cals to 3250 and eating according to weight training like I should but being VERY careful to record absolutely EVERYTHING.. look at it like Low Cal .. if I 'cheat' I mess up my weights food.

And eating 6 times a day

jakeycork · May 2012

Could not train as intensely as i do with out carbs, however i do eat low carb now im cutting. i eat between 100-150g a day and probably 75% of that pre workout for energy. Working well for me.

m60kaf · May 2012

Could not train as intensely as i do with out carbs, however i do eat low carb now im cutting. i eat between 100-150g a day and probably 75% of that pre workout for energy. Working well for me.

Im the same - can really feel it training. But really low carbs (<20g) puts you in a state where your body gets that energy from somewhere else - ketosis - dont really know what it is

So yeah 100g I notice . <20 hasnt been too bad

PaleoPath4Lyfe · May 2012

Could not train as intensely as i do with out carbs, however i do eat low carb now im cutting. i eat between 100-150g a day and probably 75% of that pre workout for energy. Working well for me.

Im the same - can really feel it training. But really low carbs (<20g) puts you in a state where your body gets that energy from somewhere else - ketosis - dont really know what it is

So yeah 100g I notice . <20 hasnt been too bad

The body prefers fat over carbs. It is just that carbs are a quicker form of energy. So ketosis has switched your body over to a fat burning machine which it prefers and it showing in your workouts.

I know when I am in ketosis I get much quicker gains in strength at the gym than I do at higher carb levels.

bunnygirl1978 · May 2012

I started this last week, asked questions on teh forum but few people had any advice really.
I have lost 6lb in 1 week & I'm not particulary big 145lbs.
I done protein only days and protein and veg alternative days.
Only tried this as I hit a weight loss slump, dont know if its good long term but for a quick fix it worked for me.

m60kaf · May 2012

Could not train as intensely as i do with out carbs, however i do eat low carb now im cutting. i eat between 100-150g a day and probably 75% of that pre workout for energy. Working well for me.

Im the same - can really feel it training. But really low carbs (<20g) puts you in a state where your body gets that energy from somewhere else - ketosis - dont really know what it is

So yeah 100g I notice . <20 hasnt been too bad

The body prefers fat over carbs. It is just that carbs are a quicker form of energy. So ketosis has switched your body over to a fat burning machine which it prefers and it showing in your workouts.

I know when I am in ketosis I get much quicker gains in strength at the gym than I do at higher carb levels.

There's a curve ball - I was just thinking of getting back to carbing up for the gym and you are suggesting that a combination of gym and ketosis is sorting the abs for me. Have to give this some thought

m60kaf · May 2012

I started this last week, asked questions on teh forum but few people had any advice really.
I have lost 6lb in 1 week & I'm not particulary big 145lbs.
I done protein only days and protein and veg alternative days.
Only tried this as I hit a weight loss slump, dont know if its good long term but for a quick fix it worked for me.

Yeah plenty of arguments on here - but good fitness discussions seem to fall flat sometimes.

6lb is a lot for someone who has little to loose - be interested to see how you get on

yarwell · May 2012

at 2 weeks you probably only just got fully adapted to low carb / ketosis, so I would stick with it for at least another two to get a realistic picture. I just took delivery of a book on low carb exercise / sport The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance [Paperback] Jeff S. Volek (Author), Stephen D. Phinney (Author) but not started it yet. It's on amazon.com

I'm not sure there's much magic about low carb, but the lack of hunger allows me to eat less and I'm pleased to be off the blood sugar roller coaster.

I also think that for losing weight having low insulin for more time per day can't be a bad thing as it inhibits fat loss when it's elevated.

neanderthin · May 2012

Saying your not fooled by water weight is contentious, considering water weight is lost with your dieting style. How much lost water weight do you think has happened considering the amount of glycogen the body holds and given it really is the inital start (2 weeks) of your low carb diet.

chrishgt4 · May 2012

Saying your not fooled by water weight is contentious, considering water weight is lost with your dieting style. How much lost water weight do you think has happened considering the amount of glycogen the body holds and given it really is the inital start (2 weeks) of your low carb diet.

I think that comment was more in the sense of - not being fooled into thinking weight loss has occurred but with no visible suggestion of that being the case. So he was saying that the visible changes roughly match up to what would be expected given the lbs loss which wouldn't be the case (presumably?) if it was just water loss.

neanderthin · May 2012

Saying your not fooled by water weight is contentious, considering water weight is lost with your dieting style. How much lost water weight do you think has happened considering the amount of glycogen the body holds and given it really is the inital start (2 weeks) of your low carb diet.

I think that comment was more in the sense of - not being fooled into thinking weight loss has occurred but with no visible suggestion of that being the case. So he was saying that the visible changes roughly match up to what would be expected given the lbs loss which wouldn't be the case (presumably?) if it was just water loss.

Normally water loss will show up as a lower body fat percentage. Also 2 weeks really isn't enough of a time line to come to any conclusions, 12 to 16 weeks is a better indicator. Also removing carbs will generally dictate better calorie recording considering most people use rough measurements for most starchy carb sources and also considering TEF would have increased a tad I would imagine is another reason short forcasting isn't a great indicator of what has actually happened. just throwing it out there. Later.

m60kaf · May 2012

Saying your not fooled by water weight is contentious, considering water weight is lost with your dieting style. How much lost water weight do you think has happened considering the amount of glycogen the body holds and given it really is the inital start (2 weeks) of your low carb diet.

I think that comment was more in the sense of - not being fooled into thinking weight loss has occurred but with no visible suggestion of that being the case. So he was saying that the visible changes roughly match up to what would be expected given the lbs loss which wouldn't be the case (presumably?) if it was just water loss.

Normally water loss will show up as a lower body fat percentage. Also 2 weeks really isn't enough of a time line to come to any conclusions, 12 to 16 weeks is a better indicator. Also removing carbs will generally dictate better calorie recording considering most people use rough measurements for most starchy carb sources and also considering TEF would have increased a tad I would imagine is another reason short forcasting isn't a great indicator of what has actually happened. just throwing it out there. Later.

I think you are being a little pedantic about the water considering this question is far more detailed and technical that 'I weigh 250lb and I lost 20lb in the first week is it a miracle?' Trust me I can tell you what I've lost a 1lb of - Ive been doing this long enough.

I'm certainly not 'most people' when it comes to this sort of thing - the detailed obsession drives friends crazy

I think you probably have a very good point about the better calorie recording - I'm pretty good at it - but low carb makes you record in much more detail and the possible ketosis 'old wives tale' makes you enforce it better

neanderthin · May 2012

Saying your not fooled by water weight is contentious, considering water weight is lost with your dieting style. How much lost water weight do you think has happened considering the amount of glycogen the body holds and given it really is the inital start (2 weeks) of your low carb diet.

I think that comment was more in the sense of - not being fooled into thinking weight loss has occurred but with no visible suggestion of that being the case. So he was saying that the visible changes roughly match up to what would be expected given the lbs loss which wouldn't be the case (presumably?) if it was just water loss.

Normally water loss will show up as a lower body fat percentage. Also 2 weeks really isn't enough of a time line to come to any conclusions, 12 to 16 weeks is a better indicator. Also removing carbs will generally dictate better calorie recording considering most people use rough measurements for most starchy carb sources and also considering TEF would have increased a tad I would imagine is another reason short forcasting isn't a great indicator of what has actually happened. just throwing it out there. Later.

I think you are being a little pedantic about the water considering this question is far more detailed and technical that 'I weigh 250lb and I lost 20lb in the first week is it a miracle?' Trust me I can tell you what I've lost a 1lb of - Ive been doing this long enough.

I'm certainly not 'most people' when it comes to this sort of thing - the detailed obsession drives friends crazy

I think you probably have a very good point about the better calorie recording - I'm pretty good at it - but low carb makes you record in much more detail and the possible ketosis 'old wives tale' makes you enforce it better

I hear ya. I know for me consuming a lower carb diet has shrunk my middles body fat to a higher degree than the same calorie allottment otherwise, I think from years of overeating and not exercising properly my belly was a fuel depot, now it's not. I've been consuming a lower carb diet for over a year, not 20g's......... that's too low and speaking for myself not realistic for a balanced diet, and if it's ketosis someone is after there's no written in stone number, some people can be in ketosis with 100g's. The problem is on an individual basis i think, a few of my body building friends who also consume starch carbs on a cut with a 40/40/20 split get ripped, so I think it's more than just what we eat it's also the continual daily lifestyle that moves things back to the middle and to a more fair playing ground. Building muscle in ketosis is an unhill battle that I'm glad I didn't try to fight as well.

m60kaf · May 2012

Saying your not fooled by water weight is contentious, considering water weight is lost with your dieting style. How much lost water weight do you think has happened considering the amount of glycogen the body holds and given it really is the inital start (2 weeks) of your low carb diet.

I think that comment was more in the sense of - not being fooled into thinking weight loss has occurred but with no visible suggestion of that being the case. So he was saying that the visible changes roughly match up to what would be expected given the lbs loss which wouldn't be the case (presumably?) if it was just water loss.

Normally water loss will show up as a lower body fat percentage. Also 2 weeks really isn't enough of a time line to come to any conclusions, 12 to 16 weeks is a better indicator. Also removing carbs will generally dictate better calorie recording considering most people use rough measurements for most starchy carb sources and also considering TEF would have increased a tad I would imagine is another reason short forcasting isn't a great indicator of what has actually happened. just throwing it out there. Later.

I think you are being a little pedantic about the water considering this question is far more detailed and technical that 'I weigh 250lb and I lost 20lb in the first week is it a miracle?' Trust me I can tell you what I've lost a 1lb of - Ive been doing this long enough.

I'm certainly not 'most people' when it comes to this sort of thing - the detailed obsession drives friends crazy

I think you probably have a very good point about the better calorie recording - I'm pretty good at it - but low carb makes you record in much more detail and the possible ketosis 'old wives tale' makes you enforce it better

I hear ya. I know for me consuming a lower carb diet has shrunk my middles body fat to a higher degree than the same calorie allottment otherwise, I think from years of overeating and not exercising properly my belly was a fuel depot, now it's not. I've been consuming a lower carb diet for over a year, not 20g's......... that's too low and speaking for myself not realistic for a balanced diet, and if it's ketosis someone is after there's no written in stone number, some people can be in ketosis with 100g's. The problem is on an individual basis i think, a few of my body building friends who also consume starch carbs on a cut with a 40/40/20 split get ripped, so I think it's more than just what we eat it's also the continual daily lifestyle that moves things back to the middle and to a more fair playing ground. Building muscle in ketosis is an unhill battle that I'm glad I didn't try to fight as well.

I have read that when you have been really fat the stomach fat that is left at like the last 5% is like the most stubborn hardest to get rid of type of fat - like the 'toxic' crap fat left over- the dregs from the 100lb. If you can use an extreme method to get completely rid of this - when it comes back it is normal balanced %age of fat types fat that can easily be dieted away - I can kind of see some logic to this.

I get your point about fuel depot too - I could eat whatever I want it got stored - my body always had what it needed. Now Im much more susceptible to lack of energy from not having eaten enough of a particular food type. My mate can tell wehn I'm doing weights if I havent had enough of something from my performance

Agree about the g's when I give up the <20 in the next week or so I'm going to slowly build up and see how much I can get away with while still turning the urine strips.

I deffo dont think carbs are particularly good for me - again I have read this is a byproduct of past obesity - I started the weight loss way back simply by cutting down on bread

Experimenting with low carbs (Atkins)-Discuss

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