Reducing BF% - to eat at a deficit or not?
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What I said was pointless was trying to explain what BF% means to you. Your post claiming that you cannot lower your BF% without losing fat is nonsense. You still cannot seem to grasp the concept of what bodyfat percentage means despite having it explained multiple times in the other thread. So I'm just going to link you to this article and hope for the best. At this point I don't even know if you're actually reading this.1) Lose more fat at the expense of delaying your lean muscle gains. You will probably lose a bit more weight and it will get difficult as you get leaner.
2) Gain some muscle with the realization that you will gain some weight and you will gain some fat.
kenny-- is this pointless too?
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/reducing-body-fat-percentage-by-gaining-muscle-qa.html0 -
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Generally speaking, it won't matter how the deficit is created (although it's not actually this clear-cut).Would it work well if you ate at maintenance and created your deficit through exercise? Or do you have to eat at a deficit too?
But in most cases you should just create the deficit through your diet. Relatively speaking, exercise generally has a small effect on the rate of weight loss. Unless you're capable of literally hours upon hours of daily exercise, the "burn" you create will generally be small compared to the deficit you create through your diet. Because ultimately, in terms of weight loss, the deficit is what matters, not how many calories you burn (you can burn 1000 calories and then eat all of it back plus some more, and therefore be in a surplus).
Which is not to say that exercise does not have benefits in a deficit (i.e. calorie partitioning, adherence to the diet, etc etc.).
This sounds awful familiar.... oh wait i know, lol from Lyle's RFL book!0 -
Yes, but telling people to go buy and read a book usually does not work :P0
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Generally speaking, it won't matter how the deficit is created (although it's not actually this clear-cut).Would it work well if you ate at maintenance and created your deficit through exercise? Or do you have to eat at a deficit too?
But in most cases you should just create the deficit through your diet. Relatively speaking, exercise generally has a small effect on the rate of weight loss. Unless you're capable of literally hours upon hours of daily exercise, the "burn" you create will generally be small compared to the deficit you create through your diet. Because ultimately, in terms of weight loss, the deficit is what matters, not how many calories you burn (you can burn 1000 calories and then eat all of it back plus some more, and therefore be in a surplus).
Which is not to say that exercise does not have benefits in a deficit (i.e. calorie partitioning, adherence to the diet, etc etc.).
Well, let me give a more specific example. I eat 2000 calories and workout enough to where I burn 200-500 calories 5 times per week (not eating these calories back). Would this help in losing fat but decrease the amount of muscle lost with the fat? This would mean that I would be burning off at least 1000 calories to at most 2500 calories a week.... Now that's not enough to burn a whole pound of fat but I'm about 19% body fat while trying to reach 15%. So I figure it'll take me a little longer to get that lean.
I'm fine with eating at a deficit, I've just noticed if I eat any less than maintenance on days I work out then I'm hungry.0 -
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Generally speaking, it won't matter how the deficit is created (although it's not actually this clear-cut).Would it work well if you ate at maintenance and created your deficit through exercise? Or do you have to eat at a deficit too?
But in most cases you should just create the deficit through your diet. Relatively speaking, exercise generally has a small effect on the rate of weight loss. Unless you're capable of literally hours upon hours of daily exercise, the "burn" you create will generally be small compared to the deficit you create through your diet. Because ultimately, in terms of weight loss, the deficit is what matters, not how many calories you burn (you can burn 1000 calories and then eat all of it back plus some more, and therefore be in a surplus).
Which is not to say that exercise does not have benefits in a deficit (i.e. calorie partitioning, adherence to the diet, etc etc.).
Well, let me give a more specific example. I eat 2000 calories and workout enough to where I burn 200-500 calories 5 times per week (not eating these calories back). Would this help in losing fat but decrease the amount of muscle lost with the fat? This would mean that I would be burning off at least 1000 calories to at most 2500 calories a week.... Now that's not enough to burn a whole pound of fat but I'm about 19% body fat while trying to reach 15%. So I figure it'll take me a little longer to get that lean.
I'm fine with eating at a deficit, I've just noticed if I eat any less than maintenance on days I work out then I'm hungry.
Without knowing more about you (i.e. stats, calories/macros, specifics of your training, dieting/training history, etc.), no one can really answer your question in good conscience.0 -
fair enough but i understand that any % is relative... and in this case it is weight. so... gain more weight and if it is not fat.. then your body fat % is reduced because you have more mass.. yadda yadda
i think the main thing is that we want to drop an amount of BF% that is probably unrealistic for that approach and time frame. therefore... lose more weight (fat) while still strength training and eating enough not to lose LBM and once we reach an ideal BF% start with the serious muscle building.
if i haven't gotten it... then i guess i'll just keep reading on until i do!!!
sweet throne robe, good day sir!0 -
u should be eating at a deficit0
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Congrats, you've proven to me that you can actually read and you're not all just looks :drinker:fair enough but i understand that any % is relative... and in this case it is weight. so... gain more weight and if it is not fat.. then your body fat % is reduced because you have more mass.. yadda yaddai think the main thing is that we want to drop an amount of BF% that is probably unrealistic for that approach and time frame. therefore... lose more weight (fat) while still strength training and eating enough not to lose LBM and once we reach an ideal BF% start with the serious muscle building.
Yes, you will have to pick a goal and likely cycle between bulking and cutting phases, and yes it will take patience, assuming you don't have the best genes (but if you did you probably would not be on here in the first place). However, read this thread carefully and realize that it takes more than just a deficit to preserve LBM while dieting (in most cases).0 -
Yes, you will have to pick a goal and likely cycle between bulking and cutting phases, and yes it will take patience, assuming you don't have the best genes (but if you did you probably would not be on here in the first place). However, read this thread carefully and realize that it takes more than just a deficit to preserve LBM while dieting (in most cases).
From my understanding, in order to preserve LBM while eating at a deficit, I need to make sure to keep my protein intake high, and keep strength training. Is that correct? Any other tips I'm missing?
Sorry for all the questions but I want to do this right the first time around
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I've heard that lifting heavy while in a deficit still will help minimize your muscle loss (not completely of course but, better than cardio alone) is this true?I think I would like to go with option 1 first. Try to get rid of some excess fat, THEN work on building muscle. Does that sound reasonable, or is it better to do it the other way around? I guess what I'm afraid of with that option is that I'll lose the fat, then eat at maintenance or even a slight surplus to gain muscle, but end up just gaining fat again.
When you go into surplus eating you will gain fat along with the muscle. You will then go into another cutting phase later on to remove as much of the fat as possible. It's a constant battle where you gain fat and muscle, and you lose fat and muscle. Your goal is to minimize the fat gains during a bulk and minimize the lean losses during a cut. (EDIT: I'm generalizing a bit here, that previous sentence isn't universally true but I'm trying to make a point).
If you do it correctly (no extreme surplusses or deficits, adequate macro intake, sufficient training stimulus) then you'll come out well ahead when you look at multiple cycles of bulking and cutting.
It's not a one time thing, you will likely have to do a few cycles in order to achieve the image that you probably have in your head of your goal physique.
EDIT: Lastly, your decision to cut a bit further seems reasonable to me. Keep the calorie deficit small and re-evaluate in 4 weeks or so, in my opinion.0 -
I've heard that lifting heavy while in a deficit still will help minimize your muscle loss (not completely of course but, better than cardio alone) is this true?
Yes.0 -
I recently friended the OP because we are at the same place on our journey however I am double her age at 42.
Thanks for the post Lauren and thanks to all the responders for the great info and links.0 -
This is where I am, too. I have been lifting for a couple of months and see the newbie gains, but I had been focusing on cutting weight, so I don't look too impressive yet. I am now at my goal weight and around 22% bf, but I would like to decrease that a bit more before I focus on bulking. Thanks for all the great advice!0
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it's a lot simpler than people are making it out to be.... if you want to replace your fat with muscle, amp up your strength training. aim for 4 intense strength training workouts a week, and only do cardio twice a week, after you strength train. and don't go pansy on the weight, either. really challenge yourself. the weight should be heavy enough that on your third and last set, you should really struggle to finish the last three reps.
keep your eating clean, and don't focus on the calorie deficit. if you eat when you're hungry, and you're eating clean, it won't matter how many calories you are in deficit. you need to fuel your body with the nutrients it needs to help your new muscle thrive.0 -
Hi MFPers! I saw a topic kind of like this posted recently but it never really got a conclusive response. I am going to explain my personal situation and see what people suggest because I'm kind of at a loss right now.
I have reached my goal weight (I know my ticker says I have 5 pounds to go, but I'm actually at my original goal weight of 130 right now. 125 would be cool but I don't have my heart set on it). I feel pretty happy with myself, but my goal now is to be fit rather than just "thin." Basically, I want what everyone wants: to reduce fat and replace it with muscle. At this point I want to focus on my BF% more than the scale.
As of the past few weeks I have been a clean eater. I've come to love it and plan to stick to that lifestyle. I do cardio (running) every other day, and weightlifting on the days in between (NROLFW). But the layer of fat on my stomach just doesn't want to go away. I can feel myself getting a lot stronger, but no visible abs yet. My current BF% is around 23%. I'd like to get below 20%.
So here's the question: do I eat at a deficit, or not? I've been eating at maintenance since I reached my goal weight, but I've had someone tell me I need to go back to eating at a deficit to get rid of that fat. However, I've seen other people say you can't build muscle while on a deficit, and building muscle is kind of what I'm trying to do, right? I'm just really confused. Any insight would be appreciated.
PS If you look at my diary you'll see I haven't really logged in forever. That's because once I hit my goal weight I started eating at maintenance and I logged everything at first; then once I got the hang of how much to eat each day I stopped logging. If I decide to go back to a deficit I will start logging again.
Stats:
5'4"
21 years old
130 lbs
23% BF
I usually burn around 300 calories a day exercising, which I drink back in a double-scoop protein shake
Increase your lifting to 3-5 days a week. Do cardio everyday. Do this on the calories you are currently at. Not sure where your macros are but they may need some adjusting. The recommend goal macronutrients MFP provides are always whack. Track your progress over 4-6 weeks. Don't like the progress, up your cardio, drops your fats and carbs slightly. Make sure you aren't starving yourself though, you'll be burning a lot of calories and increasing your metabolic rate so you need the calories. I would bet though that after 6 weeks you may need to up you calories some. You can't diet your way to looking fit. If you are pretty happy with your weight then focus on your training program right now. F the scale and give yourself some time before re-measuring you BF%.0 -
it's a lot simpler than people are making it out to be.... if you want to replace your fat with muscle, amp up your strength training. aim for 4 intense strength training workouts a week, and only do cardio twice a week, after you strength train. and don't go pansy on the weight, either. really challenge yourself. the weight should be heavy enough that on your third and last set, you should really struggle to finish the last three reps.
keep your eating clean, and don't focus on the calorie deficit. if you eat when you're hungry, and you're eating clean, it won't matter how many calories you are in deficit. you need to fuel your body with the nutrients it needs to help your new muscle thrive.
BOOM.
I agree. Cardio twice a week maybe, maybe not. That really depends on the person. I do zero cardio, I can't put on any size if I do cardio, but if you are already doing it 3 times a week, you probably don't want to drop it. That's kind of a tough call. With upping your strength training and doing cardio if you start losing weight I would lower your cardio. Lowering your BF while gaining muscle you shouldn't see a lot of weight loss. Not for where you're at already.0 -
This is where I am, too. I have been lifting for a couple of months and see the newbie gains, but I had been focusing on cutting weight, so I don't look too impressive yet. I am now at my goal weight and around 22% bf, but I would like to decrease that a bit more before I focus on bulking. Thanks for all the great advice!
lol. you want to drop you BF more before bulking? why? you're just going to put it right back on. you can't get big and stay shredded. if you want to make muscle mass gains you have to be willing to put on some BF.0 -
I've heard that lifting heavy while in a deficit still will help minimize your muscle loss (not completely of course but, better than cardio alone) is this true?
Yes.
Yup0 -
This is where I am, too. I have been lifting for a couple of months and see the newbie gains, but I had been focusing on cutting weight, so I don't look too impressive yet. I am now at my goal weight and around 22% bf, but I would like to decrease that a bit more before I focus on bulking. Thanks for all the great advice!
lol. you want to drop you BF more before bulking? why? you're just going to put it right back on. you can't get big and stay shredded. if you want to make muscle mass gains you have to be willing to put on some BF.
Ok, maybe I should restate my goals. I am not looking to get bulky, per se. I want to look fit and athletic, so my purpose for lifting is not to look like a body builder. My reason for wanting to build muscle is to increase my metabolism--that and the fact that I am 45 years old and know I've lost mass over the years. My main goal, at the moment, anyway, is to eventually run distance, so maybe you guys can help me devise a plan that will help me accomplish my goals. Maybe my goals are a bit conflicting and I'm approaching this all wrong?
I am not at all adverse to lifting heavy. I already lift as heavy as I can, and am looking to increase weight over time. Any help would be greatly appreciated.0 -
This is where I am, too. I have been lifting for a couple of months and see the newbie gains, but I had been focusing on cutting weight, so I don't look too impressive yet. I am now at my goal weight and around 22% bf, but I would like to decrease that a bit more before I focus on bulking. Thanks for all the great advice!
lol. you want to drop you BF more before bulking? why? you're just going to put it right back on. you can't get big and stay shredded. if you want to make muscle mass gains you have to be willing to put on some BF.
Ok, maybe I should restate my goals. I am not looking to get bulky, per se. I want to look fit and athletic, so my purpose for lifting is not to look like a body builder. My reason for wanting to build muscle is to increase my metabolism--that and the fact that I am 45 years old and know I've lost mass over the years. My main goal, at the moment, anyway, is to eventually run distance, so maybe you guys can help me devise a plan that will help me accomplish my goals. Maybe my goals are a bit conflicting and I'm approaching this all wrong?
I am not at all adverse to lifting heavy. I already lift as heavy as I can, and am looking to increase weight over time. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
First of all, you do not look 45 years old at all. You look 20 something.
You do have some conflicting goals at this time. No biggie though. Just some sorting out to do.
You will "look better" if you continue to lift heavy while you are training for runs (plus lifting helps me in a major way with my runs). If you are at a higher bf than you want, you will still need to cut. You will *not* be building muscle during this time. However, cutting the fat will help the muscles you do have look better.0 -
And as far as strength gains, that doesn't neccessarily mean you will be building muscle.
Since you said you had some newbie build, you may still get some gains. But strength gains slow down after a while.0 -
This is where I am, too. I have been lifting for a couple of months and see the newbie gains, but I had been focusing on cutting weight, so I don't look too impressive yet. I am now at my goal weight and around 22% bf, but I would like to decrease that a bit more before I focus on bulking. Thanks for all the great advice!
lol. you want to drop you BF more before bulking? why? you're just going to put it right back on. you can't get big and stay shredded. if you want to make muscle mass gains you have to be willing to put on some BF.
Ok, maybe I should restate my goals. I am not looking to get bulky, per se. I want to look fit and athletic, so my purpose for lifting is not to look like a body builder. My reason for wanting to build muscle is to increase my metabolism--that and the fact that I am 45 years old and know I've lost mass over the years. My main goal, at the moment, anyway, is to eventually run distance, so maybe you guys can help me devise a plan that will help me accomplish my goals. Maybe my goals are a bit conflicting and I'm approaching this all wrong?
I am not at all adverse to lifting heavy. I already lift as heavy as I can, and am looking to increase weight over time. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
First of all, you do not look 45 years old at all. You look 20 something.
You do have some conflicting goals at this time. No biggie though. Just some sorting out to do.
You will "look better" if you continue to lift heavy while you are training for runs (plus lifting helps me in a major way with my runs). If you are at a higher bf than you want, you will still need to cut. You will *not* be building muscle during this time. However, cutting the fat will help the muscles you do have look better.
Ok, so I need to continue to eat at a deficit, lift heavy, and run. That was kind of my plan, although I figured since I was at my goal weight, I would focus on eating more at maintenance than at a deficit. Thank you very much for your advice! :-)0 -
This is where I am, too. I have been lifting for a couple of months and see the newbie gains, but I had been focusing on cutting weight, so I don't look too impressive yet. I am now at my goal weight and around 22% bf, but I would like to decrease that a bit more before I focus on bulking. Thanks for all the great advice!
lol. you want to drop you BF more before bulking? why? you're just going to put it right back on. you can't get big and stay shredded. if you want to make muscle mass gains you have to be willing to put on some BF.
Ok, maybe I should restate my goals. I am not looking to get bulky, per se. I want to look fit and athletic, so my purpose for lifting is not to look like a body builder. My reason for wanting to build muscle is to increase my metabolism--that and the fact that I am 45 years old and know I've lost mass over the years. My main goal, at the moment, anyway, is to eventually run distance, so maybe you guys can help me devise a plan that will help me accomplish my goals. Maybe my goals are a bit conflicting and I'm approaching this all wrong?
I am not at all adverse to lifting heavy. I already lift as heavy as I can, and am looking to increase weight over time. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Distance running and gaining muscle don't exactly go hand in hand. Though looking fit might, depeding on what you believe that to be. I don't think I have a very good understanding of what you are going for. It seems though that you possibly have conflicting goals. What is your goal for what you would like to be able to physically DO? And what is your physical goal, aesthetical speaking?0 -
This is where I am, too. I have been lifting for a couple of months and see the newbie gains, but I had been focusing on cutting weight, so I don't look too impressive yet. I am now at my goal weight and around 22% bf, but I would like to decrease that a bit more before I focus on bulking. Thanks for all the great advice!
lol. you want to drop you BF more before bulking? why? you're just going to put it right back on. you can't get big and stay shredded. if you want to make muscle mass gains you have to be willing to put on some BF.
Ok, maybe I should restate my goals. I am not looking to get bulky, per se. I want to look fit and athletic, so my purpose for lifting is not to look like a body builder. My reason for wanting to build muscle is to increase my metabolism--that and the fact that I am 45 years old and know I've lost mass over the years. My main goal, at the moment, anyway, is to eventually run distance, so maybe you guys can help me devise a plan that will help me accomplish my goals. Maybe my goals are a bit conflicting and I'm approaching this all wrong?
I am not at all adverse to lifting heavy. I already lift as heavy as I can, and am looking to increase weight over time. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
First of all, you do not look 45 years old at all. You look 20 something.
You do have some conflicting goals at this time. No biggie though. Just some sorting out to do.
You will "look better" if you continue to lift heavy while you are training for runs (plus lifting helps me in a major way with my runs). If you are at a higher bf than you want, you will still need to cut. You will *not* be building muscle during this time. However, cutting the fat will help the muscles you do have look better.
Ok, so I need to continue to eat at a deficit, lift heavy, and run. That was kind of my plan, although I figured since I was at my goal weight, I would focus on eating more at maintenance than at a deficit. Thank you very much for your advice! :-)
I think her advice was good but she didn't mention eating at a deficit, which I would not reccomend for what I understand of your goals!0 -
Just FYI I eat at maintence and follow NROWL4W and I have lost a couple of pounds but dropped bodyfat%. I dont think you will need to drop below maintence to continue shedding bodyfat if you are lifting heavy. Try eating at maintence while lifting and see if your recompostition is reasonable enough for you. My diary is open i think if you want to see how I eat (not the greastest and I dont track every day, its just to have a general idea) and you can see on my profile page how my wt and bf% has changed while eating at these levels. I average 1800-2300 daily, sometimes more sometimes less. Since Dec my bf% has gone from 29.7% down to 19.4% as of today. I track this using the military body fat calculator found on fat2fitradio.com.0
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You can not build muscle while eating a deficit, it is not possible.
Wrong, wrong, wrong.0 -
I like seeing who replies to all these things. Whole lotta blind leading the blind going on. OP take a second to look at who's advising you. I don't take diet or exercise advice from people's who's bodies don't represent the level of knowledge they're portraying themselves to have.0
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This is where I am, too. I have been lifting for a couple of months and see the newbie gains, but I had been focusing on cutting weight, so I don't look too impressive yet. I am now at my goal weight and around 22% bf, but I would like to decrease that a bit more before I focus on bulking. Thanks for all the great advice!
lol. you want to drop you BF more before bulking? why? you're just going to put it right back on. you can't get big and stay shredded. if you want to make muscle mass gains you have to be willing to put on some BF.
Ok, maybe I should restate my goals. I am not looking to get bulky, per se. I want to look fit and athletic, so my purpose for lifting is not to look like a body builder. My reason for wanting to build muscle is to increase my metabolism--that and the fact that I am 45 years old and know I've lost mass over the years. My main goal, at the moment, anyway, is to eventually run distance, so maybe you guys can help me devise a plan that will help me accomplish my goals. Maybe my goals are a bit conflicting and I'm approaching this all wrong?
I am not at all adverse to lifting heavy. I already lift as heavy as I can, and am looking to increase weight over time. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Distance running and gaining muscle don't exactly go hand in hand. Though looking fit might, depeding on what you believe that to be. I don't think I have a very good understanding of what you are going for. It seems though that you possibly have conflicting goals. What is your goal for what you would like to be able to physically DO? And what is your physical goal, aesthetical speaking?
Yeah, I knew that distance running and gaining muscle were a bit contradictory. As I said, my main reasons for wanting to gain muscle are to improve my metabolism and look better. I also want to be stronger in general, but especially for running. Physically, my main goal is to fall in love with running, but I have also batted around the possibility of participating in a triathlon someday. So, I guess you could say that I want to do whatever I have an itch to do at the moment! My aesthetic goal has mostly been met. I wanted to get back into my small jeans, and I achieved that 10 ten pounds ago. Unfortunately, being 'skinny' (and that is NOT my goal--being fit and healthy is) does not mean that there aren't imperfections. I still have some cushioning around my middle that I'd like to whittle away, as well as some jiggle on my hips and rear end that I'd like to work on. BTW, if it matters, I am a lacto-ovo vegetarian and do struggle to meet my protein requirements some days, but in general, if I'm short, I will take a shot of whey protein.
So, do you all recommend that I try to eat at maintenance, rather than at a deficit? Or should I eat above maintenance? This is where it gets really confusing for me. Thank you in advance for all of your help!0
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