Strength Training - Please help!

ethannosaurus
ethannosaurus Posts: 20 Member
edited December 19 in Fitness and Exercise
Hi guys, without boring you. I have lost alot of weight and want to start shaping my body now! I am planning to run this exercise twice a week, 6 days a week.

This may need some work, I feel like Day 2 is lacking but so far here's the routine. Please critique it and help in any way.

Day 1 - Chest & Back

Bench Press (Chest)
D.Y Row (Back)
Incline Bench Press (Chest)
Pull Down Laterals (Back)
Press-ups (Chest)
Pull-ups (Back)

Day 2 - Shoulders & Core & Cardio

Overhead Press (Shoulders)
Sit ups (Core)
Treadmill / Bike (Cardio)

Day 3 - Triceps & Biceps

Pull Down Machine (Triceps)
Standing Bicep Curls (Biceps)
Pull Down Machine (Triceps)
Preacher Curls (Biceps)

Replies

  • A couple of things:

    1. I try not to suggest split muscle group routines for people who are starting out.

    2. Sit-ups are a very poor exercise. They are bad for your back and target the hip flexors, not the abs. When you're doing them, you anchor your feet down and pull with your back, activating your psoas attachment and grinding the vertebrae in your back.

    3. The treadmill is a bad form of cardio, as it takes the posterior chain out of the equation entirely. Also, you should not be doing lifting and cardio in the same workout.

    4. Where are all your leg workouts? If you wish to gain muscle, then it is important to workout your legs, as the large amount of muscle mass there will stimulate more muscle growth overall. You don't want to be extremely built up top and have a chicken-legs situation.

    5. I would try to avoid smith machines and use free weights. Smith machines are just bad in general, as they do not promote proper accessory muscle growth, since you're ultimately guided by the machine.

    6. I would recommend that you try a compound=body workout like Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe or Pavel's 5x5.

    Just my thoughts on the matter! :smile:
  • kdiamond
    kdiamond Posts: 3,329 Member
    I would look on bodybuilding.com and pick out a free tried and true routine rather than making up your own. IMO
  • JNick77
    JNick77 Posts: 3,783 Member

    2. Sit-ups are a very poor exercise. They are bad for your back and target the hip flexors, not the abs. When you're doing them, you anchor your feet down and pull with your back, activating your psoas attachment and grinding the vertebrae in your back.

    6. I would recommend that you try a compound=body workout like Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe or Pavel's 5x5.

    Just my thoughts on the matter! :smile:

    RE #2: They can be but not always. There are plenty of sources that will support your opinion and plenty that will oppose your opinion. If you have back issues, then you probably should avoid them; I have back problems and avoid crunches / situps most of the time.

    6. Agree with the Mark Rippletoe reference. There are so many variation of 5x5 that if you were going to do it I would just get Bill Starr's book who is the originator basically.
  • BackTatJIM
    BackTatJIM Posts: 1,140 Member
    not sure if it helps but I been doing a differant body part 5 days a week besides biceps
    my week looks like this ( would take me a hour to type my whole routine)
    MON- bis/tris
    TUES- chest
    Wends- back
    thurs- legs/ biceps
    fri- shoulders
    (cardio everyday for atleast 30 mins before workout)
  • BackTatJIM
    BackTatJIM Posts: 1,140 Member
    o and dont forget your decline bench press or decline dumbell press for your chest
  • mark996
    mark996 Posts: 184 Member
    I would look on bodybuilding.com and pick out a free tried and true routine rather than making up your own. IMO

    No, don't ever go to bodybuilding.com for anything other than to stroke your bro-chord. 2% of the people there know what the hell they're talking about, the other 98% are Jersey Shore ****heads who are looking to slim down and get the perfect 6 pack 2 weeks before summer while sitting at 20% bodyfat. If you're new to lifting, Any 5x5, solid routine is going to provide you with gains, decently enough. If you're more experienced, i.e. lifting for 3+ years, you could vary in to DC training or other splits that target individual muscle groups.

    If you're hitting the same muscle group with multiple movements, why not condense it to one movement with either failure sets, or 20+ reps (widow makers)? Seems less efficient to move around to different things to hit the same muscle group.

    5/3/1 is a simple, effective and minimalist approach. You don't need to do 1,000 sets of 10 reps to achieve anything. I ran 5/3/1 before moving on to a more progressive routine such as DC training, rest pause, negatives, etc.

    Cardio every day before a workout, unless used as a light warm up on leg day will kill anything you do afterwards. If you lift 3 days, do cardio 2 or 3 days. If you want to absolutely do cardio on lifting days, do it after, or do it in the AM, lift in PM. It's not about how much you cram in to your routine, it's about doing what's efficient and what WORKS FOR YOU.
  • iKapuniai
    iKapuniai Posts: 594 Member
    3. The treadmill is a bad form of cardio, as it takes the posterior chain out of the equation entirely. Also, you should not be doing lifting and cardio in the same workout.

    Whaaaaat? Who says this?? I've always been told Cardio AND lifting/strength training is the best way to go, especially in the same workout. I typically start my workouts w/ 15 mins of cardio, then 30 mins of lifting/strength, then end my workout with another 15 min cardio.

    Why shouldn't we be doing cardio and strength in the same workout???
  • Cathleenr
    Cathleenr Posts: 332
    Hi guys, without boring you. I have lost alot of weight and want to start shaping my body now! I am planning to run this exercise twice a week, 6 days a week.

    This may need some work, I feel like Day 2 is lacking but so far here's the routine. Please critique it and help in any way.

    Day 1 - Chest & Back

    Bench Press (Chest)
    D.Y Row (Back)
    Incline Bench Press (Chest)
    Pull Down Laterals (Back)
    Press-ups (Chest)
    Pull-ups (Back)

    Day 2 - Shoulders & Core & Cardio

    Overhead Press (Shoulders)
    Sit ups (Core)
    Treadmill / Bike (Cardio)

    Day 3 - Triceps & Biceps

    Pull Down Machine (Triceps)
    Standing Bicep Curls (Biceps)
    Pull Down Machine (Triceps)
    Preacher Curls (Biceps)

    if you do bench, deads and squats with the bar, you won't really have to worry too much about your core, because with all three complex exercises you are working them adequately. that being said, you are heavy on the chest, light on the shoulders and have no legwork at all. the back muscles are a major group and although you will incorporate some chest with your shoulder work, look for exercises that target different areas. for back day, lat pulldowns, side db raises, pull ups and rows, seated and bent over all hit different angles. deadlifts on this day, too.

    shoulder work can be shrugs, front raises, bench press, cable work, OHP, reverse flys and delt presses. work in your bicep curls and tricep presses, but don't overdo them because the other bigger shoulder exercises will work them.

    leg day is either the worst or the best, depending on your point of view :)
    squats, definitely. then some leg presses in a couple of configurations if your gym has the equipment. lunge walks or single-legged squats. reverse hypers if your glutes need it (and they probably do) and you didn't do them on back day. don't worry about your calves...they will get worked with the lunges and squats.

    as for cardio, if you are working the weights, you won't need it. I know, I know, blasphemy. but it's true. if you must, do it once or twice a week for about 30 minutes and don't kill yourself. muscle mass will lean you out more than cardio will. eat your carbs on training day...don't skimp. and get your protein and fats in. make sure you know how much you should be eating, or you won't feed your muscles properly.
    above all, form before weight in all the moves. it won;t do you any good to use momentum and then cry about not growing your muscle, or shaping or whatever your goals are...or to sustain an injury and not be able to train at all.
    a good basic program is starting strength or stronglift 5x5
  • CyberEd312
    CyberEd312 Posts: 3,536 Member
    I would suggest if you are doing 2 body parts on 1 day together you might want to try:

    Back and Biceps

    Chest and Triceps

    Legs and Shoulders

    Back and Biceps are pulling movements in other words when you work Back you are working biceps as well because the are pulling motions and Tricep and Chest are Pushing movements. I would never do 2 major (Back and Chest) body parts on the same day but that may be just me.... I am a firm believer in a rest day between Lifting days... My weight training routine is around 70-90 mins, 4 exercise for 10-12 reps (with heavy enough weight that by the 10 or 12 rep I am close to failure) and I always do 30 minutes of cardio (normally treadmill) but I don't run just walk. I use up all my glycogen storage during my weight training and the cardio at the end is pulling from fat storage. Like I said this is what works for me, not saying it is for everyone just a suggestion... best of luck....
  • JNick77
    JNick77 Posts: 3,783 Member

    Why shouldn't we be doing cardio and strength in the same workout???

    That's a good question, would love to hear the bro-science behind that one.
  • imchicbad
    imchicbad Posts: 1,650 Member
    My peronal trainer Mark Olives (who is also a PT-)he trains lots of celebrity clients in motor cross and athletics -and rehabs the injured ones- anywho his Gym is called Fast Track- Mark said 20 minutes of cardio after strenght is all you need. running on a tread mill all day isnt going to do you anygood but create endurance for a marathon, or burning calories (160-240 an hour and thats vigerously)and nothing else. Strenth training works bet when you attack 2 muscle groups at a time. But you must do legs as well. So my routine consists of arms and back-and chest, next day legs and trunk, but always 20 minutes of cardio-but you must mainain at 65% or higher heart rate for it to be beificial. Also 1 minute rest in between sets for muscle memory. You want your muscle that stores 2500 calories to fire up and burn again. That what I know. Because when you hve the on swoll feeling your good- if you have the im tired and body hurts feeling yur muscles arent firing, there fore no burn. Also excessive gym is not necessary. 3-4 times a week foe 1 hour-in and out is sufficient and give your body a brake or else you will plateau and results will stop. thats what I know :P
  • imchicbad
    imchicbad Posts: 1,650 Member
    sorry about the spelling, i type too fast sometimes lol
  • myak623
    myak623 Posts: 615 Member
    These should be the first places you look: www.startingstrength.com or www.stronglifts.com
  • Elizabeth_C34
    Elizabeth_C34 Posts: 6,376 Member
    These should be the first places you look: www.startingstrength.com or www.stronglifts.com

    ^ this.

    I just started Stronglifts 5x5, and it's a full body workout in just 3 compound moves 3x per week for 45 mins. If you do it right, you definitely don't need extra ab work either.
  • bunnylvr
    bunnylvr Posts: 78
    A couple of things:

    1. I try not to suggest split muscle group routines for people who are starting out.

    Why not??
  • warmachinejt
    warmachinejt Posts: 2,162 Member
    where are the legs???? O_o
  • 3. The treadmill is a bad form of cardio, as it takes the posterior chain out of the equation entirely. Also, you should not be doing lifting and cardio in the same workout.

    Whaaaaat? Who says this?? I've always been told Cardio AND lifting/strength training is the best way to go, especially in the same workout. I typically start my workouts w/ 15 mins of cardio, then 30 mins of lifting/strength, then end my workout with another 15 min cardio.

    Why shouldn't we be doing cardio and strength in the same workout???

    The two types of exercise impede each other. To get the most out of either, it is simply best to do them in separate sessions, not concurrently or one right after the other.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17095927

    http://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Abstract/2006/11000/Concurrent_Strength_and_Endurance_Training__From.13.aspx
  • jallen1955
    jallen1955 Posts: 121
    That is a lot of "flash" and not much meat.

    I would recommend you lose all the isolation exercises and focus on deadlifts, squats and bench presses.
    Situps are NOT an effective core exercise. However, the squat and deadlift will both strengthen your core.

    The treadmill is fine, just do sprints.

    Please, please...read some books or hire a decent trainer.
  • jenniejengin
    jenniejengin Posts: 784 Member
    bump
  • wolfi622
    wolfi622 Posts: 206
    . running on a tread mill all day isnt going to do you anygood but create endurance for a marathon, or burning calories (160-240 an hour and thats vigerously)and nothing else.

    My HRM would disagree with your PT on the calories........
  • red21dog
    red21dog Posts: 10
    Im doing strenght training and i just learned that it is best if you are going to work more then one muscle group that you should do.

    Mon
    Back = one arm dumbbell rows, reverse pull downs, seated cable rows, wide grip pulldowns, and dumbbell shrugs
    Triceps= close grip pushdowns, Dumbbell kickbacks, close grip bench press, one arm pushdowns, overhead barbell extensions
    Tues.
    Chest= Cable crossovers, Barbell bench press, Flat dumbbell bench press, Flat dumbbell flys, incline dumbbell press
    Biceps=standing dumbbell curls, hammer curls, incline dumbbell curls, seated dumbbell curls, standing barbell curls
    Cardio after workouts for about 25 to 30 min and it will hurt on leg day!!!! lol
    Now i do one day legs
    And one day all the rest like Core, Deltoids, etc.
    If im off work or off from the gym i ride my bike
  • Haha gosh these posts are all over the place. So conflicting. I have definitely heard that high intensity interval training is the best and trying to find full body movements that work multiple muscle groups. I have been taking a military science bootcamp class at the university I go to and we do pushups, pullups, sit-ups, burpees (which are awesome!), plate thrusters http://www.muscleandfitness.com/training/legs/stairway-seven, kettle bell swings in a circuit and then go run half a mile and come back and some days do just burpees and situps then a 5k, some days run different lengths around one block, then two blocks, then three blocks, repeat a couple times and some days we do suicide sprints or box jumps, burpees, sit ups, and pull ups. I personally think workouts like that are just awesome and interval training is soooo good for you. I've taken exercise science classes and they say it really is kind of the best for you. If you want to be super bulky though I'm sure it's a totally different approach.
    Oh yeah though, there are sooo many exercises for abs, you want to do stuff for that works all the different parts, for example, obliques (i loove medicine balls), lower abs (leg lifts), upper abs (sit ups), and bicycles.
  • A couple of things:

    1. I try not to suggest split muscle group routines for people who are starting out.

    Why not??
    To quote Mark Rippetoe:
    "The human body functions as a complete system - it works that way, and it likes to be trained that way. It doesn't like to be separated into its constituent components and then have those components exercised separately, since the strength obtained from training will not be utilized in this way. The general pattern of strength acquisition must be the same as that in which the strength will be used. The nervous system controls the muscles, and the relationship between them is referred to as "neuromuscular." When strength is acquired in ways that do not correspond to the patterns in which it is intended to actually be used, the neuromuscular aspects of training have not been considered."

    If you're just starting off for the first time, then doing isolation work is tricky, and can encourage and promote imbalance and a "weakest link in the chain" Think about lifting and carrying a couch for example. It is a complex movement that utilizes different muscle groups. If your isolation work has made you stronger in your arms, but you have neglected your legs and abdomen, then your arms may be adequate for the job, but your other body parts will not.

    From seeing the topic creator's original workout, he has already made the mistake of neglecting his lower body entirely. Compound workouts are better for beginner's as they promote overall balanced strength.
  • DixiedoesMFP
    DixiedoesMFP Posts: 935 Member
    Please work your legs! You are going to look very strange with big arms/chest and chicken legs!
  • DixiedoesMFP
    DixiedoesMFP Posts: 935 Member
    Please work your legs! You are going to look very strange with big arms/chest and chicken legs!
  • red21dog
    red21dog Posts: 10
    Never start with cadio because it uses that energy that can go into ur workout. and if you lift right you will see that it is needed to push threw.

    I also do this if im lifting 65lb. dumbbells i will start with 35lb do about 20 reps. to get the blood flowing to the muscle then strech and then hit the big ones but good luck and we all are here for support.
  • trelm249
    trelm249 Posts: 777 Member
    I have only been lifting for a year, but here are my thoughts and answers to some of the questions out there.

    Why do I separate serious cardio and serious lifting into separate days? I am just too trashed to have the energy for the other after having done 1. That being said, I do about 10 minutes of moderate cardio for a warm up prior to lifting.

    The bulk of my lifting routine is built around major compound moves doing a full body every lifting session. Day 1 includes powercleans. Day 2 includes Squats and Leg Press. Day 3 starts off with Deadlifts.
    Why a major focus on compound movements for a newer lifter? It is simple economics of time to benefit ratio. Compound movements hit more muscles and burn more calories per the time spent in the gym versus isolation movements. Get as much as you can out of each drop of sweat running down your body.
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