heavy lifting measurements going the wrong way

sleepytexan · May 2012

Hi all,

I've been on here almost a year and have found success through eating above my BMR to lose weight, without changing my already active lifestyle.

I am 5'4, 44 yrs old, 133 lbs. TDEE 2271, BMR 1317. I lost 15 lbs. in 6 mos by increasing my calories over BMR, maintained for 3 mos. 3 months ago I started heavy lifting and have started gaining pounds and inches , all while eating the same net daily cals as when I lost.

I started on MFP at 142, dropped to 128 in about 6 mos. by eating more! yay! I had been doing cardio during for 8 years -- the only change was increasing calories to lose weight.

I started heavy lifting in March and switched how I was looking at calories. Changed from BMR + exercise to TDEE for a month and then TDEE - 15% for 2 mos. I've steadily gained 5 lbs. over these past 3 mos. (I know you should expect to gain while lifting, but hear me out). While I'm pleased with my upper body progress, I am not pleased that my waist has increased from 27 to 28 and hips from 35 to 36.

Because I am a little bit obsessive, I spent a few hours last night entering all of my calorie, exercise and weight data from the past year into an excel spreadsheet . I wanted to see if the various ways I've set up my intake have resulted in different net calorie consumption.

It turns out that my avg. net calorie consumption has not really changed very much over the past year--lowest 1492 avg daily net for a month, and highest month 1692 avg daily net (December holidays).

My avg. daily net cals these past 3 mos has been 1582. For the 6 mos. I lost, my avg daily net cals were 1577. (Again BMR is 1317). So essentially the same cals, but gaining lbs and inches instead of losing.

So . . . is it just normal? I'm trying to ignore the scale, but waist and hip measurements are going the wrong way. Any opinions?

dad106 · May 2012

You've gone up an inch in both.. it's hardly anything to freak out about.

It could be attributed to newbie gains, water retention or a host of other factors.

How do your clothes fit/how do you look in the mirror? Thats a better judgement then a scale IMO.

sleepytexan · May 2012

thanks for responding. 1 inch in both and 5 lbs are significant when you are only 5'4. Clothes are tight; some 4s don't fit and needing 6s. I look bigger; that's why I'm wondering.

How long are you a newbie? It's been 3 mos, and I've been over 100# in squats and deadlifts for a while.

dad106 · May 2012

I'm not sure how long you are a newbie for.. someone else would need to answer that.

You could be bulking and not knowing it.. which would account for the 5 pound gain and gaining of an inch.

Maybe cut a bit more in the calorie area and see what happens?

tobielauren · May 2012

What kind of lifting regimen are you doing? Also, what is the macronutrient ratio that you are eating? I am honestly not surprised you added in the hips, especially if this is you first go with 'heavy lifting.' I put that in quotes because you need to figure out if you are doing a proper regimen and having the correct set/rep/rest. You are going to first gain muscle and hypertrophy a bit. It is normal. You may need to switch how many reps and sets you are doing. What is you ultimate goal of the lifting regimen?

DaveRCF · May 2012

That was quite the scintillating Saturday night:)
The question is really about how you feel and how do you feel about the way you look.
The tale of the tape is overrated. I bet you look juuuuuuusssssttttt fiiiiiiiiinnnne.

badgerbadger1 · May 2012

I'm 5'4", 130 lbs and have been lifting heavy since mid February. My measurements have consistently gone down, but I expect occasional fluctuations and don't worry about it. I generally eat between 1500-1800 cals/day.

sleepytexan · May 2012

What kind of lifting regimen are you doing? Also, what is the macronutrient ratio that you are eating? I am honestly not surprised you added in the hips, especially if this is you first go with 'heavy lifting.' I put that in quotes because you need to figure out if you are doing a proper regimen and having the correct set/rep/rest. You are going to first gain muscle and hypertrophy a bit. It is normal. You may need to switch how many reps and sets you are doing. What is you ultimate goal of the lifting regimen?

I did 1 stage of NROL4W, then switched to stronglifts 5x5.

I had to drop from 3 days/week lifting to 2 bc I teach spin and found I was overtraining and couldn't recover--I can't shorten the spin classes.

My ultimate goal is to increase strength and bone density. I am not trying to be a bodybuilder, but I certainly did not want my waist, hips and general pants size to increase. My macros were set at 30 protein, 40 carb, 30 fat. I just switched the set up to 25 protein, 25 carb, 50 fat last night based on some reading at nerdfitness.com.

In all honesty, it is hard for me to hit 30 protein because I can't tolerate dairy, and especially not whey protein well, but I do hit 25.

sleepytexan · May 2012

That was quite the scintillating Saturday night:)
The question is really about how you feel and how do you feel about the way you look.
The tale of the tape is overrated. I bet you look juuuuuuusssssttttt fiiiiiiiiinnnne.

Ha ha, yes I know you are jealous of my thrilling and exciting lifestyle! I am actually disappointed in how I look; I know that if I quit lifting and went back to all cardio I would fit in a smaller size . . . but lifting is good for me right?

sleepytexan · May 2012

I'm 5'4", 130 lbs and have been lifting heavy since mid February. My measurements have consistently gone down, but I expect occasional fluctuations and don't worry about it. I generally eat between 1500-1800 cals/day.

That is what I had been hoping would happen for me. Maybe I should drop my cals a bit. Last month I ate 1750/day flat (avg net was 1492).

babareeba · May 2012

I just switched the set up to 25 protein, 25 carb, 50 fat last night based on some reading at nerdfitness.com.

50% of fat? could you give me a link to see the explanation about it. I can hardly believe that someone would put himself on that regimen in order to lose weight. And, I think that so much fat is not really healthy especially that fat in TOTAL usually goes with saturated and trans fats along, what could sabotage your blood pressure and cholesterol... just my 2 cents...

darlilama · May 2012

That was quite the scintillating Saturday night:)
The question is really about how you feel and how do you feel about the way you look.
The tale of the tape is overrated. I bet you look juuuuuuusssssttttt fiiiiiiiiinnnne.

Ha ha, yes I know you are jealous of my thrilling and exciting lifestyle! I am actually disappointed in how I look; I know that if I quit lifting and went back to all cardio I would fit in a smaller size . . . but lifting is good for me right?

Sorry… not an expert weight trainer, although I have included strength training (weights or other means) in my routines for many years. However, I did want to comment on your "lifting is good for me, right?". YES, it is good for you and I wish ALL women understood this and included some sort of weight-bearing exercise in their routines.

I've posted this on a number of threads where women are discussing strength training… you need both cardio and strength training to be HEALTHY now and in the future. Cardio = heart and lungs, Strength - muscle and bones. You need both to keep your entire body healthy and strong. Strength training improves bone density (helping to avoid osteoporosis) and strong muscles keeps those strong bones in place where they should be.

BTW - You look awesome, but your concern is worthy of being put out there.

Awkward30 · May 2012

So,your eating might have stayed the same, but if you cut cardio, your net probably isn't the same. I wear a bodybugg and even if I pick one category lower than what I am, it would be higher than my actual maintenance because I guess their workouts are hardcore cardio whereas I tend to do strength training or hiit and very little long steady state cardio. My measurements have consistently gone down as I lift, except measurement error (one day I might be .5 in larger then the next measurement is at or below the lower one lol). I'd say lower cals by at least 300 and start logging activity as fewer calories.

mustgetmuscles1 · May 2012

I would probably guess that the majority of the weight is water. Gaining 5 pounds of actual muscle or fat would take a pretty large calories surplus in three months. Women can build muscle but it does usually take longer than men and most men would be really doing well to put on a pound per month. I would say since it is still within the first three months that it is just water retention.

sleepytexan · May 2012

I just switched the set up to 25 protein, 25 carb, 50 fat last night based on some reading at nerdfitness.com.

50% of fat? could you give me a link to see the explanation about it. I can hardly believe that someone would put himself on that regimen in order to lose weight. And, I think that so much fat is not really healthy especially that fat in TOTAL usually goes with saturated and trans fats along, what could sabotage your blood pressure and cholesterol... just my 2 cents...

I actually never eat trans fats, and I do have extremely low cholesterol (years of cardio and generally the same weight my entire adult life, I guess). Also I have low blood pressure; since I was a kid. Usually 90/60 ish.

It's under HOW MUCH SHOULD I EAT OF EACH NUTRIENT. There's a lot on that page in general, (both above and below that section) about opinions regarding dietary fat.

http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2010/10/04/the-beginners-guide-to-the-paleo-diet/

sleepytexan · May 2012

So,your eating might have stayed the same, but if you cut cardio, your net probably isn't the same. I wear a bodybugg and even if I pick one category lower than what I am, it would be higher than my actual maintenance because I guess their workouts are hardcore cardio whereas I tend to do strength training or hiit and very little long steady state cardio. My measurements have consistently gone down as I lift, except measurement error (one day I might be .5 in larger then the next measurement is at or below the lower one lol). I'd say lower cals by at least 300 and start logging activity as fewer calories.

My NET is the same, I've allowed for the cut in cardio -- I used to eat up to 3000 calories some days when I used to do 13.5 hours cardio a week. My point was that the NET consumption is in fact, the same.

If I lower cals by 300, I go below BMR . . . so I don't think that would be a good thing.

JNick77 · May 2012

Do you have bodyfat measurements prior to and current? Just curious because in looking at your pictures you look fairly lean, I would have to imagine any gain in measurements aren't a bad thing. I've run into a similar issue where I have to wear a larger waste sized pant because my upper legs are two big for a more correctly fitted pant around my waist.

RE Macros: Good info on that link. Not saying this is best for you but maybe as an idea to explore this is something my nutritionist has me do.

- Lifting days: 40% carb / 40% protein / 20% fat (at this point it's been adjusted so it's not exactly that but it's a good starting point)
- Non-Lifting days (these may included cardio though): 16% carbs / 40% protein / 44% fat

My body-recomp has been going very well following this method.

Edit: You say you don't tolerate Whey well, what brands have you tried? I'm just curious if you were actually trying some kind of mix or just a poor quality brand.

sleepytexan · May 2012

I would probably guess that the majority of the weight is water. Gaining 5 pounds of actual muscle or fat would take a pretty large calories surplus in three months. Women can build muscle but it does usually take longer than men and most men would be really doing well to put on a pound per month. I would say since it is still within the first three months that it is just water retention.

I like this answer best :laugh:

I've just put my base back to 1350 (just slightly above BMR of 1317), and tracking exercise cals again starting today instead of doing TDEE-15% and counting ex cals as 1.

It should be a just a bit lower, maybe by 100 cals. We'll see!

EDIT: Scratch that. I'm putting it to 1550 (maintenance) + exercise cals bc I have been picking back up my dancing again (after some mos injured), so I'm really looking at about 11 hours total exercise a week, and TDEE-15% is 1930. I guess I'll stay at 30/40/30 for now.

sleepytexan · May 2012

Do you have bodyfat measurements prior to and current? Just curious because in looking at your pictures you look fairly lean, I would have to imagine any gain in measurements aren't a bad thing. I've run into a similar issue where I have to wear a larger waste sized pant because my upper legs are two big for a more correctly fitted pant around my waist.

Thank you, in general I am pretty lean, but you know there's always room for improvement, and I have read on bodybuilding boards that squats and deadlifts CAN increase the waist on a fairly lean person. bummer.

I do have calipers, but haven't used them yet, so no, I don't have an accurate measure of my body fat. According to online formulas I could be anywhere from 22 - 23%. At one point (near my lowest weight before lifting) I had an electronic test that said 18.9%. It had seemed unbelievable to me.

BTW, I was trying to find the locations to pinch for female caliper testing -- scooby's workshop does not seem to have any differentiation for women, but some other websites list different places to pinch (such as tricep--I will need help getting that one!).

Anyone know a good website with good instructions?

thanks to all taking the time to post here.

blessings.

sleepytexan · May 2012

Do you have bodyfat measurements prior to and current? Just curious because in looking at your pictures you look fairly lean, I would have to imagine any gain in measurements aren't a bad thing. I've run into a similar issue where I have to wear a larger waste sized pant because my upper legs are two big for a more correctly fitted pant around my waist.

RE Macros: Good info on that link. Not saying this is best for you but maybe as an idea to explore this is something my nutritionist has me do.

- Lifting days: 40% carb / 40% protein / 20% fat (at this point it's been adjusted so it's not exactly that but it's a good starting point)
- Non-Lifting days (these may included cardio though): 16% carbs / 40% protein / 44% fat

My body-recomp has been going very well following this method.

Edit: You say you don't tolerate Whey well, what brands have you tried? I'm just curious if you were actually trying some kind of mix or just a poor quality brand.

I can't do really any dairy without severe headache, gas, bloating and . . . acne. It's pretty well established after years of raging acne and stomach discomfort -- no dairy, no problems. Even a bit of cheese now and again makes me sorry.

That macro ratio is interesting; fewer carbs on cardio days! I'm not sure how I'd hold up for an intense spin class or 2-3 hour road cycle. I have a really hard time cutting carbs down anyway; I already blew through today's 25% set up, ha.

That being said, I would consider trying it.

Awkward30 · May 2012

So,your eating might have stayed the same, but if you cut cardio, your net probably isn't the same. I wear a bodybugg and even if I pick one category lower than what I am, it would be higher than my actual maintenance because I guess their workouts are hardcore cardio whereas I tend to do strength training or hiit and very little long steady state cardio. My measurements have consistently gone down as I lift, except measurement error (one day I might be .5 in larger then the next measurement is at or below the lower one lol). I'd say lower cals by at least 300 and start logging activity as fewer calories.

My NET is the same, I've allowed for the cut in cardio -- I used to eat up to 3000 calories some days when I used to do 13.5 hours cardio a week. My point was that the NET consumption is in fact, the same.

If I lower cals by 300, I go below BMR . . . so I don't think that would be a good thing.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I understand what net calories are. However an HRM doesn't work well for strength training and even scientific research is kind of flaky on what the afterburn amounts to. My bodybugg gives me about 100-200 calories per hour of strength training. If you are logging it as more than you could be eating back more than you are burning.

Do you weigh yourself every day or just once a week? I weigh every day, so I know my fluctuations from water weight and they are not that big. Alcohol can help flush out water weight if that is what you suspect. LG has a good article about combating water retention http://www.leangains.com/2010/01/how-to-deal-with-water-retention-part_28.html?m=1 actually, I went too hard cuatro de mayo and the next day ended up completely empty of... Everything... And found I weighed 5 pounds less, but I couldn't keep water down even, so that was totally unrealistic. Anyways, you aren't very big, so you probably can't retain that much water. Try weighing yourself every day to see trends. Despite fluctuations, you should be able to see a trend line in one direction or the other.

ETA: here's a link to a thread about this type of situation http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/113609-relatively-light-people-trying-to-get-leaner and basically explaining how little the margin is for little women. Note that the way he calculates is not eating back exercise calories

Awkward30 · May 2012

Do you have bodyfat measurements prior to and current? Just curious because in looking at your pictures you look fairly lean, I would have to imagine any gain in measurements aren't a bad thing. I've run into a similar issue where I have to wear a larger waste sized pant because my upper legs are two big for a more correctly fitted pant around my waist.

Thank you, in general I am pretty lean, but you know there's always room for improvement, and I have read on bodybuilding boards that squats and deadlifts CAN increase the waist on a fairly lean person. bummer.

I do have calipers, but haven't used them yet, so no, I don't have an accurate measure of my body fat. According to online formulas I could be anywhere from 22 - 23%. At one point (near my lowest weight before lifting) I had an electronic test that said 18.9%. It had seemed unbelievable to me.

BTW, I was trying to find the locations to pinch for female caliper testing -- scooby's workshop does not seem to have any differentiation for women, but some other websites list different places to pinch (such as tricep--I will need help getting that one!).

Anyone know a good website with good instructions?

thanks to all taking the time to post here.

blessings.

I like http://www.free-online-calculator-use.com/body-composition-calculator.html for calculating caliper results.

heavy lifting measurements going the wrong way

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