Salt, We Misjudged You
deckerp
Posts: 4,517 Member
This is really interesting. It's no wonder we don't know what to believe.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/03/opinion/sunday/we-only-think-we-know-the-truth-about-salt.html
Who knows how factual this article is but it sure casts some doubt on what has been presented as fact.
Of course I am a global warming doubter too.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/03/opinion/sunday/we-only-think-we-know-the-truth-about-salt.html
Who knows how factual this article is but it sure casts some doubt on what has been presented as fact.
Of course I am a global warming doubter too.
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I read that this morning. As a self-proclaimed salt addict, I was intrigued. I think part of why I became an addict is that my mom was fairly over-the-top in controlling my table salt intake as a kid. It would have been one thing if she had told me to stop when I was using the shaker, but she didn't even allow me to touch the shaker: she would put some in her hands and sprinkle it on my food. As an otherwise extremely independent child, I became VERY resentful of this and once things changed around a bit at home, I think I started over-using salt as some sort of rebellion. Eventually, my taste buds adjusted to the salt fest.0
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I don't have an account, so I can't read the article. I will say this, though:
Every time someone proposes limiting the salt in food, I start to cry. Why? Because I tend towards low blood pressure, and the best treatment for low blood pressure is . . . salt! Once, when I fainted from low blood pressure, the first things I asked for when I came to was a bottle of water and a bag of pretzels. Afterwards, I was as right as rain. If people want to take my salt away from me, they can pry it out of my cold, dead hands.0 -
I've always been a bit of a doubter when it came to severe salt restriction. Cell activity within the body is VERY dependent on salt and ion concentrations, and extra can be filtered out of the bloodstream very easily; salt is actually one of the easiest electrolytes to filter in and out of the body, because it has a purpose in just about every aspect of everyday function.
While I think there are upper limits to salt intake (just like there are upper limits for ANY intake), I don't think that they're as cut-and-dry as the FDA would like people to believe, since every body is individual.0 -
I need salt. Low salt diets make me pass out. I love salt.
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Salt is especially important for people trying to cut calories and exercise. The more delicious you can make your own cooking, the more likely you are going to be compliant with your nutrition goals. I recommend all my clients salt their food unless there is a specific medical need to avoid this delicious and necessary electrolyte.0
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I am so confused...again. I have been limiting my salt intake over the last several weeks because #1, I really retain water when I am close to the normal limit and #2, my mother has high blood pressure, so I though I was at risk too since I am so...uh...large right now. However....I have to say that since limiting my intake, my food is definitely more bland and blah, but I have also experienced several instances of feeling slightly dizzy. Kind of makes me wonder if I am not suffering from low blood pressure. ??? Historically, when I was a healthy weight, I did tend toward the low end of the blood pressure scale just like my grandfather. *sigh* Good thing Mom is bringing her blood pressure cuff when she comes to visit tomorrow....we'll see where I am.0
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I love salt, all kids of salt. Pink salt, sea salt, coarse salt is my favorite. If you exercise you need salt, like the guy above said.0
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I never ever use table salt.
I think it started back when I was 12 and my dad had a mild heart-attack. My parents bought this disgusting salt replacement called "No Salt" and used it to cook pasta. Let me tell you it turned me off of pasta for a long time. Finally, they trashed this no salt stuff and decided to use other spices instead. It was really bland to eat without salt at first but our tastes adjusted to it.
I love spicy food but salty food... ugh.0 -
When I was a kid, my mother never cooked with salt. Her mother never did before that. All of my salt intake comes from what is pre-added into what processed foods I eat, because I never cook with it either. I never became accustomed to the taste, so I really just don't like it often. I'm extremely overweight and have never suffered from blood pressure issues either way. My mother doesn't have problems with it and neither did my grandmother. I wouldn't say that limiting salt is bad for everyone, just like I wouldn't say that upping intake is bad for everyone. It's a case by case thing, just like everything. Know your body!0
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Yeah unless you suffer from congestive heart failure or heart problems for that matter, or if you have high blood pressure then salt shouldn't be restricted. Your kidneys do a pretty good job at filtering out excess salt. The excess salt makes you crave water. You drink the water and then you pee...there goes the excess salt.0
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My husband had already emailed me this article in an effort to get me to lift his doctors restrictions I don't know what is true or what isn't anymore, but I hardly think 200 years ago we had the ammt of sodium in food as in restaurants today.
EX: most lean steaks at restaurants have 2000-3000 mg, and a bowl of soup at most restaurants runs about 6000 mg! Does hubby need to stick to 1500? Maybe not who knows but I'm certainly not going to go crazy based on one article. We don't stick to the 1500 reccomendation (for diabetics) when he's working out of state anyways - we try to keep under 2500...just try eating out 1-2 times a day and staying under it :sigh:0 -
Good news! I love course salt - especially Himylan mountain salt. It's loaded with minerals and SO yummy! I can eat a plate of veggies with some herbs and salt and be more than happy. Take away the salt.... boo hoo!0
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My husband had already emailed me this article in an effort to get me to lift his doctors restrictions I don't know what is true or what isn't anymore, but I hardly think 200 years ago we had the ammt of sodium in food as in restaurants today.
EX: most lean steaks at restaurants have 2000-3000 mg, and a bowl of soup at most restaurants runs about 6000 mg! Does hubby need to stick to 1500? Maybe not who knows but I'm certainly not going to go crazy based on one article. We don't stick to the 1500 reccomendation (for diabetics) when he's working out of state anyways - we try to keep under 2500...just try eating out 1-2 times a day and staying under it :sigh:
Never EVER take the advice of the lay press over your doctor. (Especially if it was written by Gary Taubes).
This isn't to say you shouldn't ever question your doctor's advice. Get another medical opinion.0 -
My husband had already emailed me this article in an effort to get me to lift his doctors restrictions I don't know what is true or what isn't anymore, but I hardly think 200 years ago we had the ammt of sodium in food as in restaurants today.
EX: most lean steaks at restaurants have 2000-3000 mg, and a bowl of soup at most restaurants runs about 6000 mg! Does hubby need to stick to 1500? Maybe not who knows but I'm certainly not going to go crazy based on one article. We don't stick to the 1500 reccomendation (for diabetics) when he's working out of state anyways - we try to keep under 2500...just try eating out 1-2 times a day and staying under it :sigh:
Never EVER take the advice of the lay press over your doctor. (Especially if it was written by Gary Taubes).
This isn't to say you shouldn't ever question your doctor's advice. Get another medical opinion.
Agreed! Always take MD's advice. With that said many Cardiologists are less strict on low Na diets then they were a few years ago. If it's for CHF I'd stick pretty close to goal on that low Na diet. Second opinions never hurt, but I bet you'll get the same answer.0 -
My husband had already emailed me this article in an effort to get me to lift his doctors restrictions I don't know what is true or what isn't anymore, but I hardly think 200 years ago we had the ammt of sodium in food as in restaurants today.
EX: most lean steaks at restaurants have 2000-3000 mg, and a bowl of soup at most restaurants runs about 6000 mg! Does hubby need to stick to 1500? Maybe not who knows but I'm certainly not going to go crazy based on one article. We don't stick to the 1500 reccomendation (for diabetics) when he's working out of state anyways - we try to keep under 2500...just try eating out 1-2 times a day and staying under it :sigh:
If your husband is at high risk of cardiovascular disease, and his doctor put him on a restricted sodium intake, he needs to stick with that. Your MD is FAR more educated than Gary Taubes and some internet article and knows more about your husband's specific risks and needs.
If you want, get a second doctor's opinion, but don't just stop taking medical advice based on some article on the internet.0 -
Actually, our food has a lot less salt these days than in the past. The reason is that prior to modern refrigeration salt was just about the only way to preserve food, especially meat.My husband had already emailed me this article in an effort to get me to lift his doctors restrictions I don't know what is true or what isn't anymore, but I hardly think 200 years ago we had the ammt of sodium in food as in restaurants today.
EX: most lean steaks at restaurants have 2000-3000 mg, and a bowl of soup at most restaurants runs about 6000 mg! Does hubby need to stick to 1500? Maybe not who knows but I'm certainly not going to go crazy based on one article. We don't stick to the 1500 reccomendation (for diabetics) when he's working out of state anyways - we try to keep under 2500...just try eating out 1-2 times a day and staying under it :sigh:0 -
Im not particularly a big fan of salt, so I don't mind avoiding it. Besides, not really a good habit to have IMO.
Also usually foods containing lots of sodium come from fast food chains, restaurants and pre-packaged or processed foods. So not real healthy to begin with.0 -
To the OP, there are numerous studies showing that excess sodium intake on a long term basis does contribute to the risk of cardiovascular disease. Furthermore, decreasing sodium levels to a reasonable intake level decreases the risk of cardiovascular disease by up to 30%.
Sources:
Long term effects of dietary sodium reduction on cardiovascular disease outcomes: observational follow-up of the trials of hypertension prevention (TOHP)
http://www.bmj.com/content/334/7599/885.short
Conclusion Sodium reduction, previously shown to lower blood pressure, may also reduce long term risk of cardiovascular events.
Dietary Sodium Intake and Subsequent Risk of Cardiovascular Disease in Overweight Adults
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?volume=282&issue=21&page=2027
Conclusions Our analysis indicates that high sodium intake is strongly and independently associated with an increased risk of cardiovascular disease and all-cause mortality in overweight persons.
Salt intake, stroke, and cardiovascular disease: meta-analysis of prospective studies
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2782060/
Conclusions High salt intake is associated with significantly increased risk of stroke and total cardiovascular disease. Because of imprecision in measurement of salt intake, these effect sizes are likely to be underestimated. These results support the role of a substantial population reduction in salt intake for the prevention of cardiovascular disease.
In fact, the ratio of sodium to potassium in the diet is even more telling and interesting:
Joint Effects of Sodium and Potassium Intake on Subsequent Cardiovascular Disease
http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?volume=169&issue=1&page=32
Conclusion A higher sodium to potassium excretion ratio is associated with increased risk of subsequent CVD, with an effect stronger than that of sodium or potassium alone.
There is more that you can find via Google Scholar: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=sodium+intake+cardiovascular+disease&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0,10
If you are interested in the real science behind this stuff and not some random article.
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Scientific knowledge is based on the consensus of studies and research based on a body of knowledge. Studies are meant to be repeated, and inevitably, a minority will disagree with the consensus, but each study is independently assessed on its merits before publication. This is the scientific process, and it works very well. Does a study (or even several) showing no link between sodium intake and cardiovascular risk disprove the thousands that do show a statistically significant link? No. It doesn't work that way. Do studies like the ones indicated in the article indicate that we need to do more to understand this process? Absolutely.0 -
Scientists still do not agree on what constitutes "excess sodium".To the OP, there are numerous studies showing that excess sodium intake on a long term basis does contribute to the risk of cardiovascular disease. Furthermore, decreasing sodium levels to a reasonable intake level decreases the risk of cardiovascular disease by up to 30%.
Sources:
Long term effects of dietary sodium reduction on cardiovascular disease outcomes: observational follow-up of the trials of hypertension prevention (TOHP)
http://www.bmj.com/content/334/7599/885.short
Conclusion Sodium reduction, previously shown to lower blood pressure, may also reduce long term risk of cardiovascular events.
Dietary Sodium Intake and Subsequent Risk of Cardiovascular Disease in Overweight Adults
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?volume=282&issue=21&page=2027
Conclusions Our analysis indicates that high sodium intake is strongly and independently associated with an increased risk of cardiovascular disease and all-cause mortality in overweight persons.
Salt intake, stroke, and cardiovascular disease: meta-analysis of prospective studies
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2782060/
Conclusions High salt intake is associated with significantly increased risk of stroke and total cardiovascular disease. Because of imprecision in measurement of salt intake, these effect sizes are likely to be underestimated. These results support the role of a substantial population reduction in salt intake for the prevention of cardiovascular disease.
In fact, the ratio of sodium to potassium in the diet is even more telling and interesting:
Joint Effects of Sodium and Potassium Intake on Subsequent Cardiovascular Disease
http://archinte.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?volume=169&issue=1&page=32
Conclusion A higher sodium to potassium excretion ratio is associated with increased risk of subsequent CVD, with an effect stronger than that of sodium or potassium alone.
There is more that you can find via Google Scholar: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=sodium+intake+cardiovascular+disease&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0,10
If you are interested in the real science behind this stuff and not some random article.
--
Scientific knowledge is based on the consensus of studies and research based on a body of knowledge. Studies are meant to be repeated, and inevitably, a minority will disagree with the consensus, but each study is independently assessed on its merits before publication. This is the scientific process, and it works very well. Does a study (or even several) showing no link between sodium intake and cardiovascular risk disprove the thousands that do show a statistically significant link? No. It doesn't work that way. Do studies like the ones indicated in the article indicate that we need to do more to understand this process? Absolutely.0 -
Scientists still do not agree on what constitutes "excess sodium".
Dosage for each trial is clearly stated in each study, so that should give you an idea of what is considered "excess" for that study's conclusion.
As for a solid "eat less than XXXXmg sodium or your risk increases" number, no there's not a consensus there. However, the American Heart Association has done quite a bit of compiling of independent studies and placed their recommendation for sodium between 800mg and 1500mg per day. Obviously, people with cardiovascular issues like hypotension will require a higher intake than that, so these recommendations are for normal healthy people.
Source: http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/HighBloodPressure/PreventionTreatmentofHighBloodPressure/Shaking-the-Salt-Habit_UCM_303241_Article.jsp0 -
I have a congenital heart defect, therefore, I never have salt and if I do, it's already added. At restaurants, both my husband and I speak to our servers and the manager about my salt intake needs. Most will not add the salt when asked. Sometimes, I have to forego all seasoning, I tend to ask for mustard and dip away. it helps.0
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I love salt too, and once upon a time I thought as you did, then I hit 42. Suddenly, a bowl of salty popcorn leaves me laying in bed at night listening to my heart pound all night.
I will still use a little salt here and there, but I can no longer handle much of it.0 -
I have a congenital heart defect, therefore, I never have salt and if I do, it's already added. At restaurants, both my husband and I speak to our servers and the manager about my salt intake needs. Most will not add the salt when asked. Sometimes, I have to forego all seasoning, I tend to ask for mustard and dip away. it helps.
I also have a congenital heart defect, but I'm on a high sodium diet because mine leads to hypotension (abnormally low blood pressure). I had to learn all about sodium and potassium balance from my doctor.
I'm glad you are able to manage your intake. It's difficult when eating out to get the right balance.0 -
Junk science did a whole segment on salt.
The only things I believe in are death and taxes.
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Really weird how this was posted today. I went to the doctor just yesterday to get my results from blood work I had done. I have been having very bad muscle pain/cramps, fatigue, and what I thought was anxiety attacks but were actually abnormal heart rhythms. Come to find out I was Hypokalemic, very low potassium. Along with the Potassium supplement he asked me if I used salt, which I do not because I have Meniere's and sodium aggravates it. He said that could also be one of my problems, he said to start using salt but use sea salt. I do like salt but we have don't even have a salt shaker in the house, lol, I guess I will have to get one.0
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http://www.jumpstartmd.com/part-1-of-2-demonizing-salt-does-it-make-sense/
http://www.jumpstartmd.com/conclusion-demonizing-salt-does-it-make-sense/
Carbohydrates retain salt and hence water, as a low carb eater I take plenty of salt and leave my kidneys to do their job. If they were broken I guess I would have to think again.
The science linked further up the thread seemed to use the word "may" and "associated" a lot. In other words a fairly weak link.0 -
The science linked further up the thread seemed to use the word "may" and "associated" a lot. In other words a fairly weak link.
Science ALWAYS uses those words. It doesn't speak in absolutes.0
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