My Experience with 30 Day Shred-Level 2
Azdak
Posts: 8,281 Member
Some of these classes are available on Comcast On Demand. I watched a couple of them earlier and today I decided to try one out just for fun.
Up front, I am not a big fan of workout classes. Since most of them are designed by, and for, women, I don't find the movements particularly enjoyable. I am not that flexible and many of the movements are really designed for a different anatomy than what I have.
From my observations, I had noticed that the 30DS classes shared some of the inherent challenges of all exercise classes. Without equipment, it is difficult to have varied resistance in small increments. Therefore the movements tend to range from too easy to too hard for many exercisers, esp new ones. I would be approaching this as a "mixed' user--someone in pretty good shape, but a newbie in terms of many of the movements.
It is important to note that exercise training is very specific--specific to intensity, specific to the muscles being used, specific to the speed, joint angle, type of contraction, etc. Even someone who is reasonably fit can struggle when attempting a new activity, class, etc. From having watched the class once from the couch, I had a pretty good idea where I was going to struggle.
My wife and stepdaughter were gone for the afternoon, so I didn't have to worry about embarrassing myself in front of them. I moved the furniture out of the way, Put on my Polar, set out my weights and towel, and grabbed the remote control. (Being a "tuff guy", I chose to use 12 lb dumbbells instead of the 5lb ones used by JM and her assistants). I had one extra unanticipated challenge--my "personal trainer" Dylan, a 75lb Golden Retriever who thought it was great fun to see me jumping around the living room and wanted to bark, and fight, and lick me during the exercises.
So, I started off. One of the first things I learned during the warm up was that, when doing jumping jacks, guys should wear compression shorts or shorts with a liner.
I did OK with the class. I didn't think it was that well structured. Maybe I need to go back and watch it again, but it didn't seem like JM was particularly precise with the counts or the time intervals. It was hard to tell because she really doesn't do much of the actual exercises herself. She does a few reps and then walks around talking the rest of the time.
I also thought the selection of exercises was unbalanced. As is true in most aerobic classes, there was an excess of abdominal work. Almost all of the upper body strength exercises were focused on the shoulders--even ones that I think she was trying to use to target other areas. In her desire to include combination exercises, there also seemed to be a lot of emphasis on isometric exercise--e.g. staying in a squat position while doing whatever odd arm exercise she added to that circuit. Overall, I thought the class had little or no effective focus on some important areas--chest, back or triceps.
By placing so much emphasis on the shoulders--either with innumerable reps or an overemphasis on postures like the plank position--it makes it more difficult to maintain proper form or get as much out of some of the aerobic segments.
One of the problems with doing combo arm and leg strength exercises is that there is such a mismatch between the relative strength levels of the different body areas, it is difficult to find a resistance that is effective with either. This is true not only of this class, but all compound exercises. I run into the same problem with my own routines. For example, if you choose a heavy enough weight to really work the legs in a squat move, it's way too heavy for the upper body exercise; choose a lighter weight for the arms, and you weaken the quality of the leg exercise. I think the only real answer is not to depend solely on classes for your strength work. Given large number of reps for the shoulders and the fact that I chose to use the 12lb dumbbells, I was not able to complete some of the final shoulder exercises.
There were some things in the class that made my question Michaels' overall knowledge of both exercise physiology and strength training in general. I have already mentioned that I felt there were virtually no effective exercises for the chest, back, or triceps (I know she says that some of her compound movements do work those areas, but they don't). To me, one of the more glaring examples was in the first circuit, when you are in a squat position and doing the "row" exercises for the arms. Michaels implied that these were for the "upper back" and meant to develop a "v-shaped" upper body. If she was trying to work the lats, then not only is 5lb a ridiculously low weight, but the movement itself is not very effective. The maximum resistive force from a dumbbell or free weight movement occurs when the weight is moving in the opposite direction of the pull of gravity. Being in the squat position means you are essentially moving the weight laterally to the pull of gravity, i.e. in a neutral plane with little or no resistance at all. What is being worked in that movement are the shoulders, which are isometrically contracted to keep the arms elevated. Another example was the leg extension/military press combo, which had you extending your leg against no resistance at all. That exercise might be good for balance and some core work, but it is not much of a leg exercise.
I was particularly bothered by another statement she made more than once. During some of the arm/leg combos, she mentioned that she was doing the combo movements because by involving more muscles you would be working the heart harder and burning more fat and calories. When she said that, I looked at my HRM and my heart rate was about 85--I think it was during one of the squat/arm row segments.
When I finished the 27 minute class, I checked my monitor. My average heart rate was 101, which is about 45% max using the HR reserve method, with a peak of 135 (my normal workout average is 128-138). Total calories 249 for a little over 27 min; total time in my training zone: 2:52. Normally I burn 450-550 calories in a 30 min workout.
Bottom line: it would be unfair to say too much after trying only one class. From what I have seen on FitTV, I think there are a lot better classes and instructors out there. This was an OK workout--I do think it is good to incorporate some of these types of compound movements in your routine, and it's something I don't do enough of. Like anything else--the important thing is to do something. There are innumerable individual paths to fitness and if Michaels inspires someone to get up and move and challenge themselves and work towards a healthier lifestyle--hey all power to her and I support that 100%. I just would not recommend that someone base their entire program on Michaels' workouts--either find other types of classes to supplement her DVDs or try to include some "traditional" structured routines in your program.
Up front, I am not a big fan of workout classes. Since most of them are designed by, and for, women, I don't find the movements particularly enjoyable. I am not that flexible and many of the movements are really designed for a different anatomy than what I have.
From my observations, I had noticed that the 30DS classes shared some of the inherent challenges of all exercise classes. Without equipment, it is difficult to have varied resistance in small increments. Therefore the movements tend to range from too easy to too hard for many exercisers, esp new ones. I would be approaching this as a "mixed' user--someone in pretty good shape, but a newbie in terms of many of the movements.
It is important to note that exercise training is very specific--specific to intensity, specific to the muscles being used, specific to the speed, joint angle, type of contraction, etc. Even someone who is reasonably fit can struggle when attempting a new activity, class, etc. From having watched the class once from the couch, I had a pretty good idea where I was going to struggle.
My wife and stepdaughter were gone for the afternoon, so I didn't have to worry about embarrassing myself in front of them. I moved the furniture out of the way, Put on my Polar, set out my weights and towel, and grabbed the remote control. (Being a "tuff guy", I chose to use 12 lb dumbbells instead of the 5lb ones used by JM and her assistants). I had one extra unanticipated challenge--my "personal trainer" Dylan, a 75lb Golden Retriever who thought it was great fun to see me jumping around the living room and wanted to bark, and fight, and lick me during the exercises.
So, I started off. One of the first things I learned during the warm up was that, when doing jumping jacks, guys should wear compression shorts or shorts with a liner.
I did OK with the class. I didn't think it was that well structured. Maybe I need to go back and watch it again, but it didn't seem like JM was particularly precise with the counts or the time intervals. It was hard to tell because she really doesn't do much of the actual exercises herself. She does a few reps and then walks around talking the rest of the time.
I also thought the selection of exercises was unbalanced. As is true in most aerobic classes, there was an excess of abdominal work. Almost all of the upper body strength exercises were focused on the shoulders--even ones that I think she was trying to use to target other areas. In her desire to include combination exercises, there also seemed to be a lot of emphasis on isometric exercise--e.g. staying in a squat position while doing whatever odd arm exercise she added to that circuit. Overall, I thought the class had little or no effective focus on some important areas--chest, back or triceps.
By placing so much emphasis on the shoulders--either with innumerable reps or an overemphasis on postures like the plank position--it makes it more difficult to maintain proper form or get as much out of some of the aerobic segments.
One of the problems with doing combo arm and leg strength exercises is that there is such a mismatch between the relative strength levels of the different body areas, it is difficult to find a resistance that is effective with either. This is true not only of this class, but all compound exercises. I run into the same problem with my own routines. For example, if you choose a heavy enough weight to really work the legs in a squat move, it's way too heavy for the upper body exercise; choose a lighter weight for the arms, and you weaken the quality of the leg exercise. I think the only real answer is not to depend solely on classes for your strength work. Given large number of reps for the shoulders and the fact that I chose to use the 12lb dumbbells, I was not able to complete some of the final shoulder exercises.
There were some things in the class that made my question Michaels' overall knowledge of both exercise physiology and strength training in general. I have already mentioned that I felt there were virtually no effective exercises for the chest, back, or triceps (I know she says that some of her compound movements do work those areas, but they don't). To me, one of the more glaring examples was in the first circuit, when you are in a squat position and doing the "row" exercises for the arms. Michaels implied that these were for the "upper back" and meant to develop a "v-shaped" upper body. If she was trying to work the lats, then not only is 5lb a ridiculously low weight, but the movement itself is not very effective. The maximum resistive force from a dumbbell or free weight movement occurs when the weight is moving in the opposite direction of the pull of gravity. Being in the squat position means you are essentially moving the weight laterally to the pull of gravity, i.e. in a neutral plane with little or no resistance at all. What is being worked in that movement are the shoulders, which are isometrically contracted to keep the arms elevated. Another example was the leg extension/military press combo, which had you extending your leg against no resistance at all. That exercise might be good for balance and some core work, but it is not much of a leg exercise.
I was particularly bothered by another statement she made more than once. During some of the arm/leg combos, she mentioned that she was doing the combo movements because by involving more muscles you would be working the heart harder and burning more fat and calories. When she said that, I looked at my HRM and my heart rate was about 85--I think it was during one of the squat/arm row segments.
When I finished the 27 minute class, I checked my monitor. My average heart rate was 101, which is about 45% max using the HR reserve method, with a peak of 135 (my normal workout average is 128-138). Total calories 249 for a little over 27 min; total time in my training zone: 2:52. Normally I burn 450-550 calories in a 30 min workout.
Bottom line: it would be unfair to say too much after trying only one class. From what I have seen on FitTV, I think there are a lot better classes and instructors out there. This was an OK workout--I do think it is good to incorporate some of these types of compound movements in your routine, and it's something I don't do enough of. Like anything else--the important thing is to do something. There are innumerable individual paths to fitness and if Michaels inspires someone to get up and move and challenge themselves and work towards a healthier lifestyle--hey all power to her and I support that 100%. I just would not recommend that someone base their entire program on Michaels' workouts--either find other types of classes to supplement her DVDs or try to include some "traditional" structured routines in your program.
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Replies
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This was certainly informative. While I am admittedly not in the shape I was a few years ago, I tried 2 of her tapes and they were not for me. I found them difficult to complete (too strenuous) and not fun. I know she is very popular right now and has a number of devotees, but I find her demeanor as well as her workouts incongruent with what I need. The bottom line is that we tend to stick with what appeals to our needs and what we believe we can accomplish (even if it's initially difficult). Speaking solely from my own personal experience, those workouts were not at all motivating.0
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I have never used those videos, but I use a couple of the Crunch videos. It does take time to learn the routines, but I find the combination of several videos gets me the workout I am looking for. I keep waiting for a two year old to crawl between the legs of the instructors though. Those ladies don't understand challenge!0
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Thanks for the headsup on this workout! If you want a good cardio/total body conditioning series try the Insanity Series by Shaun T. It is NOTHING girlie and you will for sure have your heart rate up, I promise!!! There are actually 4 or 5 guys working out with him along with that many females. I am starting week 8 tomorrow with another fit test today! But a word of caution: make sure to wear compression shorts!!!!!!
You mentioned maximum resistive force (away from the body) with free weights. So when doing say "one arm rows" and as you are lifting (I use 35#) and contracting as you pull that weight in (towards) your body, it is NOT using the lats etc in the back but more just the shoulder?
I always LOVE reading your post, keep it up!
Verda0 -
Thanks for the headsup on this workout! If you want a good cardio/total body conditioning series try the Insanity Series by Shaun T. It is NOTHING girlie and you will for sure have your heart rate up, I promise!!! There are actually 4 or 5 guys working out with him along with that many females. I am starting week 8 tomorrow with another fit test today! But a word of caution: make sure to wear compression shorts!!!!!!
You mentioned maximum resistive force (away from the body) with free weights. So when doing say "one arm rows" and as you are lifting (I use 35#) and contracting as you pull that weight in (towards) your body, it is NOT using the lats etc in the back but more just the shoulder?
I always LOVE reading your post, keep it up!
Verda
No, it IS the lats--or at least it is supposed to be. My point was that, at the angle JM has you perform the exercise, you *can't* involve the lats--and even if you did, 5lb isn't enough resistance to do anything (as you verify by the fact that you use 35# dumbbells).
The biggest challenge with doing free weight exercises for the lats is that many people (and I would estimate most beginning exercisers) have no real "feel" for where their lats are or how to "activate" them during a workout. It is common for many exercisers doing bent over rows to emphasize the biceps, triceps and shoulders when lifting the weight rather than the lats. Because those smaller muscles become fatigued more easily, they never progress to the heavier weights that would work the lats more effectively.
When doing lat rows, you need to pretend that your arm is just a rope that attaches the dumbbell to your shoulder--at least for the beginning of the lift. The first movement is to retract your shoulder blade and press it into your back. If the elbow breaks first, the person is using more arms to lift the weight.
IMO, the lats are the one set of muscles where free weight exercises are inferior to cables or machines. Even in weight rooms that are designed to emphasize nothing but free weight workouts, you will still always see some cable or plate-loaded back machines.0
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