Made it to the Man Cave and then crumbled....

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Jo2926
Jo2926 Posts: 489 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
So as the gym was quite today i ventured into the 'Mave Cave' weights area, determined to try out proper barbell squats. I spotted and identified the smith machine (which from what I have read should be avoided). Then I saw the barbells - 3 different ones!!

I had no idea which to use - one was very heavy and long, one was slightly shorter, much lighter with plastic end covers, and a third was much shorter and had bends in it. I obviously looked confused as a 'trainer' from the gym suggested I used the shortest for squats as the others would unbalance me at my height.

I tried but it felt very uncomfortable on my back.

did I use the right one? Should I just suck up the uncomfortableness? Where can I learn about the different bits of equipment?

Replies

  • jjjohnson31
    jjjohnson31 Posts: 108 Member
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    First, way to go starting free weight training!

    If this picture looks like the short bar with bends in it:

    CURLBAR.jpg

    Generally this is used for biceps curls and typically weighs 25lbs. I suppose it could be used for other things but the primary purpose is biceps curls.

    Not sure about the lighter bar with plastic covers.

    The long and heavy bar most likely looked like this:

    DSCF1306.jpg

    This bar has multiple purposes, but generally used for bench press and squats and weighs 45lbs. If there is one of these bars already set in a squat rack, then you are good to go. Most gyms will have a piece of foam cushion to attach to the bar to provide some comfort with the bar on your shoulders. Even without the cushion, the bar should not feel too uncomfortable on your shoulders in the squat position.
  • LabRat529
    LabRat529 Posts: 1,323 Member
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    Congrats on beginning your adventures in lifting!

    The shorter bar with the plastic covers was possibly a woman's bar? And it weighs (according to my sister), 35 lbs.

    If you are having trouble with 35 lbs, may I suggest you start with dumbbell/goblet squats? I've had to go back to those because I wasn't going low enough with the barbell and when I DO go low enough, I can't lift the 45 lbs bar (which makes me very very sad, for the record. I was lifting 135 lbs before I realized that I'm not going parallel with my legs... my quads rock. My hamstrings, not so much. But I digress).

    For dumbbell or goblet squats, you hold a dumbbell perpendicular to the ground in front of your navel. You squat as you would with the bar, though you're going to be a bit more up-right. You'll eventually get strong enough that you can squat with 45 lbs in you hands... at which point, you should be able to handle the bar.

    When you do use the bar, don't put it across your neck. That's going to hurt and be uncomfortable. Look up the you tube video called "so you think you can squat". It's fantastic for squat form and it explains where you put the bar for the 'high bar' position. There's also something called 'low bar' position that my sister just taught me... but I'm not sure how to explain it. You might google it.
  • slkehl
    slkehl Posts: 3,801 Member
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    You are brave! I'm always to scared to try out that part of the gym.
  • Chloe_Chaos_
    Chloe_Chaos_ Posts: 150 Member
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    Just curious as to why you think the smith machine should be avoided?
    We are talking about the machine that can help you keep good form for squats, right?
    My friend just showed me how to use this and it seems to help me a lot with my form because I tend to be sloppy with squats.
  • LabRat529
    LabRat529 Posts: 1,323 Member
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    Just curious as to why you think the smith machine should be avoided?
    We are talking about the machine that can help you keep good form for squats, right?
    My friend just showed me how to use this and it seems to help me a lot with my form because I tend to be sloppy with squats.

    The smith machine stabilizes the bar and the weights for you. That might sound lovely at first, but squats are meant to strengthen your core, including the muscles that stabilize the bar/weights and you. You really do want those muscles to engage... they're the same muscles that keep your back and pelvis aligned properly, your abs tight, and those things are good. You lose out on one of the greatest benefits of squatting when you use the smith bar.

    Or so I think.
  • nz_deevaa
    nz_deevaa Posts: 12,209 Member
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    Just curious as to why you think the smith machine should be avoided?
    We are talking about the machine that can help you keep good form for squats, right?
    My friend just showed me how to use this and it seems to help me a lot with my form because I tend to be sloppy with squats.

    Because the Smith Machine doesn't allow your body to use your stabiliser muscles, so you aren't using your body as effectively.

    Also it only allows one range of motion, and that's not always the right 'form' for everyone.
  • Chloe_Chaos_
    Chloe_Chaos_ Posts: 150 Member
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    Yeah, but when you've never done a squat before I would think that learning how to keep form and squat all the way would trump engaging your core and stabilizing muscles? That's just my thought. I have no evidence of this. I've just heard some people say that they have compromised their form and their other muscle groups by not going all the way down. Just thinking aloud :-)
  • nz_deevaa
    nz_deevaa Posts: 12,209 Member
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    I don't think the ROM is the same for the Smiths Machine vs free weights, if you google there are loads of articles, but I follow the StrongLifts 5 x 5 program, and they pretty much think the Smiths Machine is the devil:

    http://stronglifts.com/smith-machine-squats-power-rack-free-weights/

    I know when I first started at the gym I had a trainer that had me work on the Smiths Machine, and I basically had to learn to squat all over again when I moved to free weights.
  • Jo2926
    Jo2926 Posts: 489 Member
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    First, way to go starting free weight training!

    If this picture looks like the short bar with bends in it:

    CURLBAR.jpg

    Generally this is used for biceps curls and typically weighs 25lbs. I suppose it could be used for other things but the primary purpose is biceps curls.

    Thats exactly the bar! Oops. I'll avoid that one next time.
    The long bar is also exactly right - thanks!
  • Jo2926
    Jo2926 Posts: 489 Member
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    The shorter bar with the plastic covers was possibly a woman's bar? And it weighs (according to my sister), 35 lbs.

    Thats good to know - I did look very similar to the main one, just lighter. I will try that first.
    If you are having trouble with 35 lbs, may I suggest you start with dumbbell/goblet squats?

    This is similar to what I have been doing - but with a weight in each hand up to about 20kgs total. I moved to the bar as my hands are struggling! LOL

    [quote
    When you do use the bar, don't put it across your neck. That's going to hurt and be uncomfortable. Look up the you tube video called "so you think you can squat". It's fantastic for squat form and it explains where you put the bar for the 'high bar' position.
    [/quote]

    Thanks for this - there is so much on you tube I never know where to start and what to trust.
  • Jo2926
    Jo2926 Posts: 489 Member
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    Just curious as to why you think the smith machine should be avoided?
    We are talking about the machine that can help you keep good form for squats, right?
    My friend just showed me how to use this and it seems to help me a lot with my form because I tend to be sloppy with squats.

    The smith machine stabilizes the bar and the weights for you. That might sound lovely at first, but squats are meant to strengthen your core, including the muscles that stabilize the bar/weights and you. You really do want those muscles to engage... they're the same muscles that keep your back and pelvis aligned properly, your abs tight, and those things are good. You lose out on one of the greatest benefits of squatting when you use the smith bar.

    Or so I think.

    Thats what I had read and why I thought to avoid - but I do see R1Chick's point and there does seem to be differing opinion on it. (As with everything exercise related you can do a google search and find 'evidence' to support just about any position!)

    I think I will try the ladies bar first and see if I can do a good form squat without toppling over as the trainer suggested I might! If not I may try the smith machine for a few weeks, just to get used to the bar and take it from there.

    Next exercise I want to try is deadlift - or should I master this BEFORE squats?
  • AliciaBeth78
    AliciaBeth78 Posts: 437 Member
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    I just want to put my two cents in about the smith machine. I learned to lift using that machine. Yes the range of motion sucks BUT it is the only thing in the free weight section of my gym that will help with proper form. I say use the smith machine, get the form down and when you're comfortable, start working your way off it. Without proper form, you're going to get hurt!
  • Jo2926
    Jo2926 Posts: 489 Member
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    Thanks - I am worried about proper form which was why I tried a few with the little bar then rang away to ask advise here!

    Do you still use the smith machine or do you use free weights? If the later how long did it take you to work your way from the machine? Just curious how long I should stay with that before moving on if I choose that route.
  • AliciaBeth78
    AliciaBeth78 Posts: 437 Member
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    Thanks - I am worried about proper form which was why I tried a few with the little bar then rang away to ask advise here!

    Do you still use the smith machine or do you use free weights? If the later how long did it take you to work your way from the machine? Just curious how long I should stay with that before moving on if I choose that route.

    Sometimes I use the Smith machine and sometimes I user free weights.... it just depends on how I'm feeling that day? But seriously don't think that lighter weights = bettet form. I seriously pulled a muscle doing a 65lb deadlift one day.... I was so upset knowing that I did that on half my max :(
  • contingencyplan
    contingencyplan Posts: 3,639 Member
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    Smith Machine for squats can lead to injury forcing your body along an unnatural plane of motion while bearing heavy load.
  • LabRat529
    LabRat529 Posts: 1,323 Member
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    Thanks - I am worried about proper form which was why I tried a few with the little bar then rang away to ask advise here!

    I worry about form too, but in my opinion, sometimes it's better to just start, even if you don't have the form right. There are risks involved with this, of course, but I've been able to learn as I go. I have spent a lot of time watching videos. A lot of time practicing without weights. After I did some on my own, I did hire a personal trainer to help tweak my form. Even that didn't make me have perfect form... I recently went lifting with my sister and found out I am still not going low enough with my squats.

    However, despite having problems with my form, I still benefited tremendously from lifting.

    I've also injured myself a time or two >.> But I think I'd still say, go ahead and do the best you can. Finding the right form can be a journey. You don't have to start out perfectly.

    As for the dumbbells hurting your hands.... try just one, but hold it with both hands. I'm not sure why that helps, but it helps me. My hands start to cramp when I have a 20 pounder in each hand, but they're fine when I'm using two hands to hold a single 40 pound weight.

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