HELP ME! Shifting from Weight Loss to Muscle Building

nheilweil
nheilweil Posts: 82 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
I am trying to shift from weight loss to muscle building and I am totally confused!

I figured out the "math" behind weight loss, and over the past year, I went from 197 lb. & 27% body fat down to 154 lb. & 16% body fat. My maintenance calories are about 2,000 cal. and I would stick to 1,200 net cal to lose weight. I've been doing 30 minutes of cardio a day and the occasional weight machines at the gym (but not regular or really pushing myself with the weights).

Now, I want to build some muscle so I'm less "skinny" and more "athletic" and continue to drop my body fat a little more (goal is around 10-12%).

I have no idea how to do this! To build muscle, it looks like I'll need to eat 200-500 cal/day over maintenance, and I will only gain 1 -3 lbs. of muscle in a month. OK, let's say I eat 2,500 cal/day. But if i do that, I am going to gain 1 lb. a week (3,500 calories over maintenance). So I will gain 4 lbs a month, of which only 1 - 3 will be muscle and the rest FAT. UGH!! I don't want to gain fat!

Am I missing something? I know that lots of you have been really successful with this and would really appreciate your knowledge!

Replies

  • ABlessedMan
    ABlessedMan Posts: 4
    Great job so far! Those are impressive results. I am no expert by any means. I started with the following article and moved on from there: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/over_40_beginner_training.htm (Yeah, I know it's a site for bodybuilders, of which I am not, but the site has an incredible amount of information). I would suggest not changing your intake and adding strength training for a time and see how that goes. If you find you need to up the calories to make it through the weight session or in order to add more lean muscle mass, then you can do so at that time. Just my opinion. Good luck!
  • dad106
    dad106 Posts: 4,868 Member
    It's called a bulk and cut cycle.

    You bulk(IE Gain muscle and Fat) and then Cut(IE Lose Fat).

    It's just how it works.. if you gain muscle then you gain fat.. you can't gain one without the other following.

    Also it's really hard to gain muscle.. for both men and women. So your going to need to start looking into a program that is more then the occasional weight machine. Strong Lifts 5X5 or Starting Strength would prob. be good for trying to gain muscle mass.
  • JAcerz
    JAcerz Posts: 5
    I agree with kingdom220 when he stated: I would suggest not changing your intake and adding strength training for a time and see how that goes.

    The thing is, you have to stimulate your muscles to grow, and that is done with weight training, mental focus and intensity.

    From what I read, it seems you want to put on lean muscle. Get a lean body look. I would suggest you take a look at this program: http://realmensworkoutreviews.com/review-of-rusty-moores-visual-impact-muscle-building

    It has 3 phases, one to enhance muscle size, one to enhance muscle density and strength, and one to get ripped lean.

    Give it a try and you will start seeing the results you want.

    All the best to you.
  • waldo56
    waldo56 Posts: 1,861 Member
    First of all, I would suggest cutting to a lower BF%. The ideal range for muscle building where the greatest % of weight gain is by muscle mass is when you are in the 10%-15% BF range.

    It is also nice to have cushion.

    You have to be willing to accept the fat gain. It is unavoidable if you want to get anywhere. Lean bulking methods are significantly slower, even when you factor the cutting time in.

    You might find as you start lifitng much more substantially than a machine here and there that your maintenence level is going to rise. This is because it costs calories, a lot of them, to repair muscle. Expect your food intake to rise substantially; chances are if you are lifting to gain you aren't going to gain anything eating less than 3000 calories. I'm 6'1" 190 and to gain I need to top 4000 calories a day.

    You will come to understand that your body is not like half the frantic people every Monday think. By eating a surplus you aren't going to gain 10 pounds of fat over the weekend. If you bulk for 10 weeks with a 500 cal surplus and gain 10 pounds, say 5 of them are new muscle, you'll have 5 pounds to cut off afterwards, which isn't all that much. If you start at 10% BF, you'll rise no higher than 13%, something that will not be perceptable with clothing on.

    If you want to keep your fat gain under control, keep the lengths of your bulking cycles shorter, don't do 6 month long bulks where you go on food benders and gain 30 lbs.
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
    Awesome job on the weight loss! Here's a few tips I'll suggest that you start with listed In order of importance:

    1. Cut out the steady state cardio. Gaining mass is hard, and cardio eats into mass at a rate that would surprise you. Maybe do 1 or 2 sessions a week if you just can't stop yourself, just know that it is detrimental to muscle building when you're doing it. If you're not massively overeating your bodyfat percentage should continue to go lower during strength training. Note: bodyfat% will go lower, but your bodyweight may not. But you'll look better, and that sounds like what you want.

    2. Get stronger. Muscles growth is triggered by muscle stimulation, not how much you eat. Yes, you'll need to eat more, but getting stronger comes before getting bigger. So let's work on that part first. Use a training log to make sure you increase your lifting amounts each week.

    3. Eat your maintenance amount to start with. Then start adding calories from there as you start lifting heavier. I doubt if you want to go from being lean to being fat. Yes, if you eat 3000 calories over maintenance while lifting heavy you'll gain more muscle than if you eat 1000 over, or 500 over. But you'll probably also gain even more fat. So you'll put on 5 pounds of muscle to go with 15 pounds of fat, and then you'll "cut" and lose the 15 pounds....along with about 2-3 pounds of the muscle. Why not grow a bit slower and not have to go thru a massive cutting phase?

    4. Gradually increase your calories over maintenance. You'll have to figure out the right number for yourself, but it sounds like you're good at making adjustments (that's the fun part, right?). Just know that A) MFP is lying to you; Not only do I burn way more calories at strength training then it gives me, but MFP doesn't figure in how much more you need to eat on Tuesday just to repair the muscles you damaged on Monday. B) it's probably a lot more calories than you think. But like I say, go slower and not have go thru infinite cutting cycles. You're going to gain some fat, but you can limit it.

    Good luck!

    ps. In that last part I'm not knocking MFP. MFP is seriously awesome and has helped me to a ridiculous extent in losing weight. But it's designed primarily as a weight loss app, not muscle building. You can easily reverse the protocols to gain weight, but it won't necessarily by muscular weight. Plus there is still major disagreement regarding the science of how many calories strength training burns/requires.
  • waldo56
    waldo56 Posts: 1,861 Member
    4. Gradually increase your calories over maintenance. You'll have to figure out the right number for yourself, but it sounds like you're good at making adjustments (that's the fun part, right?). Just know that A) MFP is lying to you; Not only do I burn way more calories at strength training then it gives me, but MFP doesn't figure in how much more you need to eat on Tuesday just to repair the muscles you damaged on Monday. B) it's probably a lot more calories than you think.

    Best I can tell, and a few others I've talked to are similar, maintenance calorie burned when you have some degree of DOMS and are recovering from strength training is 20-25% higher than maintenance when you are not recovering from strength training.

    For me the numbers are ~2400-2500 when not recovering and ~3000-3100 when recovering.
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member

    Best I can tell, and a few others I've talked to are similar, maintenance calorie burned when you have some degree of DOMS and are recovering from strength training is 20-25% higher than maintenance when you are not recovering from strength training.

    For me the numbers are ~2400-2500 when not recovering and ~3000-3100 when recovering.

    Sounds about right. That's similar to what I've found for myself. I'm usually in the 3500-3800 range but I'm 6'1", 245 so it tends to be high. The reason I advise for people to experiment for themselves is because everyone has a different idea of what constitutes "heavy" lifting. Different exercises, machines vs free weights (sounds like he's using machines now), number of sets/reps, etc. Even tho my workout partner and I do the exact same exercises I'm lifting much closer to my my 1RM than he is, and if affects my recovery. And I need more calories to recover when deadlifts and squats are part of the program, and less when we take a month to use lighter weights with slower rep speed. So it depends.

    For the OP, he's just getting into strength training, and it's usually a 2-3 month ramp up to get used to the lifting routine and during that period the weights are (relatively) light. That's why I wouldn't recommend he start eating 600-900 additional calories right away. They'll be soreness, yes, but not that massive soul sucking draw that you get after heavy squat day. As always, everything is IMHO.
  • nheilweil
    nheilweil Posts: 82 Member
    Wow...you all rock! Thanks so much for the great info. I'm soooooo dumb. A friend asked me if anyone replied to my question and, head held low, I shrugged and said "nope...no one has replied." I never thought to actually check! I totally mistakenly thought MFP would have notified me with an email or something! So, sorry I haven't chimed in earlier :-)

    Building muscle and transforming my body AGAIN is going to be challenging but I'm up for it!

    I do cardio every day but I only do about 30 mins (300 cal), so I wonder if that will be OK? I could go to 3 times a week, but it's a mental block because I equate it with such a big part of my success over the past year. Not sure I can give it up -- and I CAN'T believe it's me saying that! I was SUCH a couch potato before this -- when did I become a jock? :-)

    I like the idea of sticking to maintenance while figuring out weight routines, getting used to the gear, and becoming strong. I think David's advise is great and if I can minimize flip flopping between huge bulks (and the fat gain) followed by huge cutting (with the loss of muscle as well), that would be great. It's not my intent to become totally ripped with bulging muscles, just to add some solid build to my frame.

    Since posting the original question, I did a pretty heavy (for me -- so really not heavy at all...hahaha) upper body session last week, and relaxed my calories, and wow I felt like I could hear my body just sucking in all that energy after dieting for so long!

    Thanks again for the great answers everyone!

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