BMR vs MFP calorie limits (frustrated & confused!)

melbatoastrox
melbatoastrox Posts: 25
in Health and Weight Loss
I posted this in my blog - but I thought I'd get more opinions/thoughts if I also posted it here....

Ok, I'm really confused. Is everyone just doing 1200 calories or are any of you calculating your BMR and determining your calories from there? I ask because I've netting at or under 1200 for 3 weeks and I do 90mins of cardio 4-5 days a week. I have only lost 1lb. There is no muscle gain because I'm not weight training and my clothes don't fit any better.

I calculated my BMR based on 8 different websites based on no activity, then 4 sites with 1-3 days of activity and 3 sites with 3-5 days of activity to get a better idea of what's going on.

Average BMR no activity - 1798 cals (MFP = 1643)
Average BMR 1-3 days - 2318
Average BMR 3-5 days - 2605

On average I am getting 4 days of 90 mins of cardio - so based on these calculations I should be comsuming 2605 to maintain my weight. But I am consuming 1200 or less, that's a deficite of 1405 calories! And yet I'm not losing anything. I can only determine from there that this is because I'm not eating enough... the research I've done says that you should eat 500 calories less than your BMR to lose weight. I am eating almost 3X less than my BMR!

I assume that people on here on doing this because the want to lose weight for the most part, therefore we are all selecting to lose 2lbs a week and MFP is telling us we need to net 1200 calories a day.

I'm not a nutritionist, but I used to see one and she didn't have me counting calories - she just wanted me to eat within 90mins of waking up, eat every 4 hours, BE MINDFUL when I eat so as to train myself to learn when I'm full and stop eating. Also not to binge or eat very late as night.

I was trying out MFP because I thought that it was going to help me... but I don't feel like it is... maybe I am being impatient but I think that the calorie limitations are working against me... its not that I'm hungry because I'm not... which is also weird! I don't feel deprived at 1200 calories...

Anyone else having the same experience here?

Also I see a food therapist and was talking to her about this yesterday - she told me NOT to use sites like this and to add weight training to my routine.

SO frustrating because I am hearing different things from everyone - and NOTHING seems to be working for me! When I wasn't using this site to track my food I was still maintaining my weight. I just don't know what to do to see some results!
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Replies

  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,477 Member
    to start weed out the confusion, your BMR - Basal Metabolc Rate - does not depend on your activity level.

    There are different formula to estimate BMR, they will be within 10% for 70% of a typical population.

    If MFP suggested 1200 (without exercise) it's because the combination of your BMR, your activity multiplier (sedentary ?) and your target loss rate put it there. If you go for a lower rate of loss it'll be higher on target calories. 1200 is the minimum it wil use, and that goes up with exercise logged in your diary.

    How long have you been at your current calorie level with no change in weight or size ?
  • melbatoastrox
    melbatoastrox Posts: 25
    I've been researching and some sites namely - www.muscleandstrength.com, www.bmrcalculator.net, www.walking.about.com, and www.caloriesperhour.com had fluctuating results in their BMR calculators based on your activity level. That is why I have included these.

    Even if I just base if on MFP's calculations my BMR is 1643 (-500) then I should be under 1200 calories a day to lose weight.

    I was also told by my food therapist and my former nutritionist NOT to eat back calories from excercise - but I have been following MFP suggestions and netting 1200.

    I've only been physically recording my calories and averaging 90mins of cardio 4days a week on here for 3 weeks with no change in weight or size. Before that I wasn't straying too much from the meal plan that I have been following on here, getting only 60mins of cardio a day 5 days a week.
  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,477 Member
    if they fluctuate with activity they are not BMR, they are TDEE - total daily energy expenditure.

    Basal metabolic rate is you lying asleep after fasting. For sedentary multiply by 1.2. etc.

    Does MFP say your BMR is 1643, or your TDEE if sedentary ? if subtracting 500 that's taken away from the TDEE not the BMR.

    So the 1200 target has a deficit for weight loss built in. Hence if you add on exercise it adds on food to maintain the same 500 deficit.

    If you prefer a different approach you could subtract 15 or 20% from the TDEE estimates.
  • mcarter99
    mcarter99 Posts: 1,666 Member
    Three weeks is too soon to tell anything. Keep at it and see where you're at in 3 more. It's hard!

    You can't really conclude that there is no muscle change because you're not doing strength training and your clothes feel the same. All that cardio is working your leg muscles and probably butt and back and others. Your muscles will retain water before they grow. So the scale doesn't change, the clothes don't feel different. It ends. It can take months but you just have to push past it.

    I would add that you need to ignore BMR. The only relevance it has to the issue is to arrive at a TDEE estimate for yourself.
  • js370
    js370 Posts: 140
    If you prefer a different approach you could subtract 15 or 20% from the TDEE estimates.

    ^This...and try to stay above your BMR, especially on your work out days.
  • melbatoastrox
    melbatoastrox Posts: 25
    Ah! See! Some of you are telling me not to focus on BMR then others are saying that I should. Still really don't know what to do. Can't tell whether I should eat more or eat less!

    Well something isn't working... I just hope that I can stay motivated to keep doing this when I'm not seeing any results.
  • GauchoMark
    GauchoMark Posts: 1,804 Member
    On MFP, are you actually looking at your BMR, or the net? Because unless you actually use the BMR calculator int he tools, it is hidden. The numbers in your goals are BMR * Activity Factor - Calorie Deficit.

    Go to tools > BMR Calculator and run it and see if it doesn't match your other numbers.
  • ElizabethRoad
    ElizabethRoad Posts: 5,138 Member
    I was also told by my food therapist and my former nutritionist NOT to eat back calories from excercise - but I have been following MFP suggestions and netting 1200.
    These people also told you not to count calories. You're talking about completely different philosophies. You can't expect them all to agree. I guarantee you these people did not intend for you to eat a total of 1200 calories and do a ton of exercise on top of that.
  • juicemoogan
    juicemoogan Posts: 994 Member
    the deficit should be taken off of your TDEE to lose weight.. not off of your BMR.. You should not be eating under your BMR.

    Try this one.

    http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/

    If you are using the method calculating your calorie goal from your TDEE you would not eat back your exercise cals unless your NET cals ended up under your BMR due to high intensity cardio.

    If you are using MFP's calculation method, usually people eat back their cals.
    But you should not be under 1200, and everyone sets their goal at 2lbs a week which isnt usually sustainable so the site sets you at 1200.


    You will get a lot of different advice here im sure.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,427 MFP Moderator
    I eat 2600-3000 calories and lose about 1/2 lb per week. I use Katch McArdle to figure out my calories and include my exercise in my TDEE. 1200 calories consumed for 2600 calories burned is not enough to fuel your body and initially, your body will conserve energy in fear of famine (good ol' cortisol). You should aim to eat 20% below your TDEE (2000 calories) to supply your body with enough energy to release the weight and not store additional fat or water to protect your body. Bigger deficits don't always work. Also, start picking up weights. You may lose a bit more weight with a ton of cardio but you will lose more fat and maintain your metabolism with heave weight training. Why don't you start off by eating 1800 calories a day (without eating back exercise calories) and see if the weight drops.
  • Captain_Tightpants
    Captain_Tightpants Posts: 2,215 Member
    Toss out the cup of everything you picked up from all those other websites. Pour yourself a nice drink. Sit down for an hour and read this. Start from there, and you'll be fine...
    http://body-improvements.com/resources/eat/
  • hheater
    hheater Posts: 52 Member
    Please go to fitnessfrog.com and plug your numbers in the TDEE calculator. That will tell you how many calories your body uses a day. Then cut 15% or 20% off that number. Whatever that number is...eat that EVERY DAY. And don't worry about exercise calories. The only reason you would ever need to "eat back" exercise calories is if you have such a big burn that your net goes below your BMR. Then you eat back until you reach your BMR again. 1200 is SO alarming low...

    I had a hard time eating more at first. It was all psychological. As soon as I started eating again, I had SO much more energy...and the inches started falling off of me. I also started lifting more that i would do cardio. I'm about a month in to it all, and my clothes fit better, I have great tone compared to how I looked before, and people are starting to notice. No, the weight's not coming off super fast, but I'd rather do this the right way.
  • melbatoastrox
    melbatoastrox Posts: 25
    On MFP, are you actually looking at your BMR, or the net? Because unless you actually use the BMR calculator int he tools, it is hidden. The numbers in your goals are BMR * Activity Factor - Calorie Deficit.

    Go to tools > BMR Calculator and run it and see if it doesn't match your other numbers.

    I included the BMR that MFP calculated for me - that has me at 1643. I compared that to the rest of the BMR calculators that I found on the net and did averages. But based on 1643 (-500 to lose weight) my calorie goal should be 1143 not 1200... That's not counting 750 calories I burn a day.
  • taniaandmichael
    taniaandmichael Posts: 38 Member
    I was stalled for a long time. Finally I decided to cut back on my carbs. I still watch the calories, and I do allow myself to have some carbs. However, I try to keep my carb count below 100g each day. Check your diary to see how many carbs you are eating, It might help.
  • melbatoastrox
    melbatoastrox Posts: 25
    I was also told by my food therapist and my former nutritionist NOT to eat back calories from excercise - but I have been following MFP suggestions and netting 1200.
    These people also told you not to count calories. You're talking about completely different philosophies. You can't expect them all to agree. I guarantee you these people did not intend for you to eat a total of 1200 calories and do a ton of exercise on top of that.

    I currently see my food therapist and she told me to eat 1200 calories at day to lose weight and NOT to eat back calories from exercise. I haven't seen my nutritionist in a while so we can "discount" her but still... very confusing.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,427 MFP Moderator
    I was also told by my food therapist and my former nutritionist NOT to eat back calories from excercise - but I have been following MFP suggestions and netting 1200.
    These people also told you not to count calories. You're talking about completely different philosophies. You can't expect them all to agree. I guarantee you these people did not intend for you to eat a total of 1200 calories and do a ton of exercise on top of that.

    I currently see my food therapist and she told me to eat 1200 calories at day to lose weight and NOT to eat back calories from exercise. I haven't seen my nutritionist in a while so we can "discount" her but still... very confusing.

    The question is how she came up with that number? Most of the time it's arbitrary. Did she take your height, weight, age and body fat and daily routine/exercise routine or pull a number out of no where?
  • juicemoogan
    juicemoogan Posts: 994 Member
    BMR is not the number you need to look at to lose weight or subtract cals from

    BMR is the # of calories your body needs in a day to function properly

    TDEE is your total daily energy expenditure.
    you eat at a defecit from your TDEE to lose weight. it is oftem much higher than your BMR.

    FOr example in my case,
    BMR = 1650
    TDEE = 2323
    So i eat at TDEE-15% to lose weight
    Daily cal intake: 2020 cals.
  • melbatoastrox
    melbatoastrox Posts: 25
    Thanks everyone... I don't mean to come off sounding unappreciative I am just so frustrated! Judging from some of your comments I'm not eating enough.... which is definitely something that I thought! But I am going to check out all of the sites that you have all suggested and hopefully get myself back on track.

    Thanks again!
  • LorinaLynn
    LorinaLynn Posts: 13,247 Member
    On MFP, are you actually looking at your BMR, or the net? Because unless you actually use the BMR calculator int he tools, it is hidden. The numbers in your goals are BMR * Activity Factor - Calorie Deficit.

    Go to tools > BMR Calculator and run it and see if it doesn't match your other numbers.

    I included the BMR that MFP calculated for me - that has me at 1643. I compared that to the rest of the BMR calculators that I found on the net and did averages. But based on 1643 (-500 to lose weight) my calorie goal should be 1143 not 1200... That's not counting 750 calories I burn a day.

    If your BMR is 1643, you don't subtract the 500 calories from that. You subtract it from your TDEE, total daily energy expenditure, which is your BMR *plus* the calories you burn from daily activity and exercise.

    Go to your "goals" page. On the right hand side, there will be a column "YOUR DIET PROFILE" and under that is the total burned from normal daily activity. That's *almost* your TDEE, but it doesn't include your exercise. And it's probably close to 2000 calories. MFP subtracts the 500 calories to lose a pound a week from THAT number, not from your BMR, which would give you about 1500 calories a day as a base (to net). And since that number doesn't include your exercise, any exercise you do is added to your food total after you do it, to keep your deficit at 500 calories.
  • siriusalien
    siriusalien Posts: 207
    Three weeks is too soon to tell anything. Keep at it and see where you're at in 3 more. It's hard!

    You can't really conclude that there is no muscle change because you're not doing strength training and your clothes feel the same. All that cardio is working your leg muscles and probably butt and back and others. Your muscles will retain water before they grow. So the scale doesn't change, the clothes don't feel different. It ends. It can take months but you just have to push past it.

    I would add that you need to ignore BMR. The only relevance it has to the issue is to arrive at a TDEE estimate for yourself.

    Can you elaborate a bit more on this? The muscles retaining water etc.. I work pretty darn hard with my trainer now, who shakes up my routine with alternating cardio and weights in a 1 hour session. For 4 months I had a different trainer who only did weights for that hour.
    My weight loss has been slow..But every comments I'm darn stong for a 46 year old chick.
  • ElizabethRoad
    ElizabethRoad Posts: 5,138 Member
    I currently see my food therapist and she told me to eat 1200 calories at day to lose weight and NOT to eat back calories from exercise. I haven't seen my nutritionist in a while so we can "discount" her but still... very confusing.
    You said in your original post that she told you not to use a calorie-counting site. Now you're saying she wants you to count calories. Talk about confusing.
  • joanne51971
    joanne51971 Posts: 22
    i do 90mins of cardio 4/5 times a week too, when i started i didnt see any results either!! but after about 8 weeks roughly i started to see results in my weight and my measurments!!
    stay positive!! you will see results in a few more weeks, i to have a calorie goal of 1200 on here, which i try very hard to stick to, and i do eat back most of my exercise cals that i have burned, i sometimes stay under my goal but i do try to mostly stick to my goal!
    i know how you feel it can be so disheartening to be doing all the cardio and watching your cals and then you get on the scales and a big fat nothing!! makes you want to cry!! the first few weeks of cardio is you are building and toning some muscles, it takes a good 6/8 weeks to start to see results so stick with it and you will see the rewards very soon !!
    add me and i can help to motivate you, we can support each other! :flowerforyou:
  • dcharger18
    dcharger18 Posts: 1
    I just joined and have already lost 18lbs doing 800 or less calories a day and cardio 4 times a week. Now I too am at a standstill, its your body saying I am starving. Just keep doing what you are doing or lower calorie intake 100 calories and see what happens.
  • kammy92
    kammy92 Posts: 408 Member
    I go by my TDEE-500 ..............
  • johicks
    johicks Posts: 1,991 Member
    I am experimenting w/my TDEE and seeing how the numbers work. BUT! I'm also following an eating plan that doesn't focus on calories but on keeping your metabolism on fat burning mode, not fat storing mode. It says to eat within the first 60 minutes of getting up; break-fast! Then eat every three hours all day, consuming three balance meals and three snacks of 100-200 calories. You're welcome to view my diary.

    This plan teaches about fast carbs, slow carbs, proteins, and fats. Basically fast carbs (1/2C-3/4C) = starches & sugars; Slow carbs (1C)= veggies & berrries; proteins (3-5oz); and fats (cheeses, dressings, nuts = 1oz). Then snacks whatever you want as long as it's 100-200 calories. There is more to it teaching about macronutrients and reading food labels; but the above is the basics.

    FEED YOUR METABOLISM, FUEL YOUR BODY!!!

    :D

    Also, I override the macronutrients that MFP tells me to eat and shoot for 40% protein - 35% carbs- 25% fat.
  • mcarter99
    mcarter99 Posts: 1,666 Member
    I was also told by my food therapist and my former nutritionist NOT to eat back calories from excercise - but I have been following MFP suggestions and netting 1200.
    These people also told you not to count calories. You're talking about completely different philosophies. You can't expect them all to agree. I guarantee you these people did not intend for you to eat a total of 1200 calories and do a ton of exercise on top of that.

    I currently see my food therapist and she told me to eat 1200 calories at day to lose weight and NOT to eat back calories from exercise. I haven't seen my nutritionist in a while so we can "discount" her but still... very confusing.

    The question is how she came up with that number? Most of the time it's arbitrary. Did she take your height, weight, age and body fat and daily routine/exercise routine or pull a number out of no where?

    It's arbitrary in that it applies to nearly all humans, because your BMR does not matter except to determine the estimate of what you expend to try to determine how large your deficit will be at 1200, to estimate how fast your weight loss will be.
  • kimmraderie
    kimmraderie Posts: 56
    THANK YOU FOR POSTING THIS! I've been at this for about 2 months consistently. I've lost about 18 lbs, but that number fluctuates within 4 lbs week to week.

    I'm pretty sure I'm eating too little food (~900 cals), but I maintain my meals and my snacks. My appetite has decreased quite a bit, but I'm not hungry.

    My BMR on MFP says 1816. Should I reduce -500cals from that?

    CONFUSED!!!
  • wild_wild_life
    wild_wild_life Posts: 1,334 Member
    Ah! See! Some of you are telling me not to focus on BMR then others are saying that I should. Still really don't know what to do. Can't tell whether I should eat more or eat less!

    Well something isn't working... I just hope that I can stay motivated to keep doing this when I'm not seeing any results.

    Do you understand what BMR is? From your OP it seems you are confusing it with maintenance or TDEE. It is important to understand the difference.

    BMR is a static number that does not change according to your daily activity. You can generally disregard it as it is a theoretical number. TDEE, or the calories required to maintain your weight at a given activity level, is the term you really meant to use in your OP. And yes, it looks like your deficit from TDEE is too big. Others have provided good ideas on how to remedy that.
  • smbarthel
    smbarthel Posts: 1
    Could be your excercising too hard or too much. Just saw my endo yesterday, need to stay in fat burning zone - cardio zone only burns sugar, fat doesn't convert back to sugar so your body will turn muscle to sugar to burn and leave the fat behind. I was going to the gym everyday for over an hour for the last 2 months trying to burn fat but I lost 3lbs of lean body mass that I could not afford to loose. He said I was getting my heart rate up too high and only burning the sugar and because I don't have all that much sugar (carbs) in my diet my body was using my muscle. You definitely need to do light weight training to keep from losing too much lean body mass (30min x3 a week not more than 10lbs) - Muscle burns more calories at rest than fat does. Also, my physch said don't pay attention to the scale ~ it can't tell you from a sack of potatoes. Try to find out your body composition % and work on that number.
  • juicemoogan
    juicemoogan Posts: 994 Member
    THANK YOU FOR POSTING THIS! I've been at this for about 2 months consistently. I've lost about 18 lbs, but that number fluctuates within 4 lbs week to week.

    I'm pretty sure I'm eating too little food (~900 cals), but I maintain my meals and my snacks. My appetite has decreased quite a bit, but I'm not hungry.
    YES that is WAY too little! Especially if you are exercising as well!
    My BMR on MFP says 1816. Should I reduce -500cals from that?
    CONFUSED!!!

    NO.
    You should reduce 500 calories from your TDEE, not your BMR> BMR is what you need in order to just get out of bed every day.
    Enter your info here to find yout TDEE: http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/
    TDEE is the calories you need to eat to maintain your current weight, by eating at a slight defecit from that #, then you will lose weight.

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