How Much Protein Do You Need?

Options
This article contains some good information on protein and how much a person should need in their daily intake. It is a little long, but well worth the read:

http://www.romanfitnesssystems.com/blog/the-truth-about-protien/

One point I did find interesting:
FAT LOSS

Determining the maximum amount of protein you can and should take in for optimal fat loss is entirely dependent on the type of diet you’re using. In fact, this is primarily relevant for those who are on low carb diets.

The prevailing theory behind being on a lower carb diet is to keep insulin in check, and in many cases enter into ketosis.

As we’ve established, taking in lower carbohydrates often means taking in higher amounts of protein—but as you can imagine, there is a point of diminishing returns.
In this case, it’s lower than you might expect.

You see, if the goal is to keep insulin low and approach ketosis, too much protein can offset this due to a phenomenon called gluconeogenesis.

This is a metabolic pathway that results in the generation of glucose from non-carbohydrate sources. Without getting too far off topic, gluconeogenesis is actually a pretty important mechanism, as it allows us to keep blood glucose levels from dropping too low and becoming hypoglycemic when carbohydrates are not available.

In the case of survival, that can be important and beneficial, for obvious reasons.

For the purposes of fat loss, however, it means that if you’re taking in “too much” protein, the glucogenic amino acids will be broken down into glucose or substances that react very much like glucose, which in turn will impact insulin levels and prevent whatever ketogenic effect you’re attempting to achieve.
Put simply: protein becomes carb. (Well, sort of. But you get the idea.)

Which means this: if you are on a diet that depends on insulin control, it is detrimental to over-eat protein.

Some studies have shown that gluconeogenesis can occur with as little as .8g protein per pound of LBM. Using that number, I’d only need 142 grams of protein at 192 pounds and 8% bodyfat.

Now it does go on to say that weight training intensity allows for more protein intake.

Thought I'd throw this out there since there is some debate on the levels of protein intake and whether or not higher levels can become harmful.

Replies

  • kneasles
    kneasles Posts: 23 Member
    Options
    Thanks. With a quick calculation you've shown me I'm on track with my protein intake after increasing it.
  • Mercenary1914
    Mercenary1914 Posts: 1,087 Member
    Options
    Good post!
  • Elizabeth_C34
    Elizabeth_C34 Posts: 6,376 Member
    Options
    Great post! Thanks for sharing Yak!
  • Cliffslosinit
    Cliffslosinit Posts: 5,044 Member
    Options
    Bump and bookmark
  • EvanKeel
    EvanKeel Posts: 1,904 Member
    Options
    bumping to see if it yields interesting conversation.
  • Klamber26
    Klamber26 Posts: 212
    Options
    well dang. I thought 15 protein shakes a day was really doing something.
  • Sheila_Ann
    Sheila_Ann Posts: 365 Member
    Options
    wow! thanks for the post...very interesting!
  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member
    Options
    Interesting article, but I don't think it implies any harmful effects of a high protein diet.

    The way I interpret this is simply to say that if you cut carbs low enough your body will turn to other fuel sources to create glucose.

    Doesn't mean I don't like the article, I just don't think it says anything in particular other than "if you're low carbing it, your body may use some protein for fuel instead of using all of it for dem muscles".

    So to me, it says that if you're low carbing, better jack the protein up higher so that you account for the extra protein that will be used as fuel.
  • CalJur
    CalJur Posts: 627 Member
    Options
  • EvanKeel
    EvanKeel Posts: 1,904 Member
    Options
    Interesting article, but I don't think it implies any harmful effects of a high protein diet.

    The way I interpret this is simply to say that if you cut carbs low enough your body will turn to other fuel sources to create glucose.

    Doesn't mean I don't like the article, I just don't think it says anything in particular other than "if you're low carbing it, your body may use some protein for fuel instead of using all of it for dem muscles".

    So to me, it says that if you're low carbing, better jack the protein up higher so that you account for the extra protein that will be used as fuel.

    Ah, so is the idea then that since you're in a deficit, it doesn't really matter because the body is simply using protein for fuel as we would expect it to, and that it doesn't actually hinder fat loss?

    if I'm understanding both the blog posting and your response, it sounds like there may be a disagreement about the presumed effect of ketosis in fat loss. The blog posting seems to indicate that the goal of low carbing (generally, not that they're advocates necessarily) is to keep insulin in check and that will aid fat loss.

    I don't actually understand the specifics well enough here, but that seems to be a point of contention?
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
    Options
    For discussion's sake


    F13.medium.gif

    Beyond the Zone: Protein Needs of Active Individuals.
    http://www.jacn.org/content/19/suppl_5/513S.full

    Dietary protein for athletes: From requirements to optimum adaptation
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22150425

    http://www.optimalhealthpartner.com/A_Archive/Phillips_Dietary Protein for Athletes metabolic advantage.pdf
  • Annaliza369
    Options
    Good post!

    ditto
  • SwimTheButterfly
    SwimTheButterfly Posts: 265 Member
    Options
    Thanks Caljur & Yak ~Great info.

    I read an article in the June Self Magazine "Demystifying Proteins" which quotes a nutritionist as saying that our bodies can only absorb up between 20-40 at a time after a work out. The article is on page 130 something...read if you are in the store waiting in line or something.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    Options
    Tagging to read the links.
  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member
    Options
    Interesting article, but I don't think it implies any harmful effects of a high protein diet.

    The way I interpret this is simply to say that if you cut carbs low enough your body will turn to other fuel sources to create glucose.

    Doesn't mean I don't like the article, I just don't think it says anything in particular other than "if you're low carbing it, your body may use some protein for fuel instead of using all of it for dem muscles".

    So to me, it says that if you're low carbing, better jack the protein up higher so that you account for the extra protein that will be used as fuel.
    Ah, so is the idea then that since you're in a deficit, it doesn't really matter because the body is simply using protein for fuel as we would expect it to, and that it doesn't actually hinder fat loss?

    It would use protein for fuel in the absence of adequate carb intake. I'm sure I'm simplifying something that's more complex than this, but in my reply above I'm assuming specifically that gluconeogenesis isn't going to happen in any appreciable amount given adequate carb intake.
    if I'm understanding both the blog posting and your response, it sounds like there may be a disagreement about the presumed effect of ketosis in fat loss. The blog posting seems to indicate that the goal of low carbing (generally, not that they're advocates necessarily) is to keep insulin in check and that will aid fat loss.

    In a calorie deficit you will also lose fat, regardless of whether or not you're in ketosis. I'm not sure if this disagrees with your above quote, but generally speaking, there are some misunderstandings about whether or not low carbing gives you some sort of "fat loss edge". My belief based on the research that I've seen, is that there is no advantage given normal insulin function. (Doesn't mean it's bad -- it's a viable method for some people).

    I think James Krieger does a fantastic job of explaining here:
    http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319
  • EvanKeel
    EvanKeel Posts: 1,904 Member
    Options


    In the context of a calorie deficit you will also lose fat, regardless of whether or not you're in ketosis. I'm not sure if this disagrees with your above quote, but generally speaking, there are some misunderstandings about whether or not low carbing gives you some sort of "fat loss edge". My belief based on the research that I've seen, is that there is no advantage given normal insulin function. (Doesn't mean it's bad -- it's a viable method for some people).

    I think James Krieger does a fantastic job of explaining here:
    http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319

    Ahh ok. I shall read more on it from the provided link then. Thank you. Yeah it was my impression that the blog article was assuming that the point of low carbing (in a deficit) was that it provided some sort of fat loss edge via insulin regulation. I may have been reading too much into it though.
  • tobnrn
    tobnrn Posts: 477 Member
    Options
    Bumping to read the articles
  • FitBarbie2986
    FitBarbie2986 Posts: 202 Member
    Options

    Thanks for posting this! :D