StrongLifts 5x5 and running

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El_Rapido
El_Rapido Posts: 136
in Fitness and Exercise
Firstly, I'm a fell runner that wants to gain strength, not a lifter that does a bit of running. But if you fit either profile and are/or are following a similar program to SL 5x5 I'd like to hear your opinions/experiences/advice please.

I'm starting out on the stronglifts program in an effort to build my all round strength, however I'm concerned on the impact it will have on my running. My long runs can be up to 20 miles, I'm a club runner and the summer races are coming thick and fast. Is it possible to combine such a squat intensive program with a busy summer of competetive running? My club mates think I'm mad for doing both but they don't do much strength work, if at all.

I'd be interested to hear from runners that manage to effectively do a similar program, how does it impact on your training/racing?

I'm also interested in hearing from others doing SL 5x5, can I do the program 2x a week rather than 3 if I think I need to concentrate more on the running for a particular week?

Thanks.
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Replies

  • amy1612
    amy1612 Posts: 1,356 Member
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    Im not personally a big runner (I was about the start running more seriously 4 months ago, and the day after my first run I sprained my ankle badly climbing, still cant run for more than a few mins), but I have 2 very good friends who do power circuits and 500 both alone and with running interspersed. They have both increased stamina this way. One of them, since adding more strength training knocked 10 minutes off his own PB in a 10k yesterday :)
  • Monkee_Magic
    Monkee_Magic Posts: 32 Member
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    I've been doing stronglifts for a month or so, I do running mainly intervals/recovery runs mixed in between. I have found some times with running that I have felt a bit weak in the thighs. Don't really know if it has had a major impact on gaining strength but it seems to be okay, it's all gotta be good I reckon. Though gains in either may not be as full or quick as expected but it should be moving in the right direction. BTW I am not a fast or proficient runner, suppose you have just got to listen to what your body is telling you. Good luck with it.
  • BrianSharpe
    BrianSharpe Posts: 9,248 Member
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    Just had a look at their website and I always get a little dubious when I read hyperbole like: "StrongLifts 5×5 is a foolproof training program guaranteed to pack on solid muscle and raw strength... while burning body fat... regardless of your age, genetics and bodytype... in only 3 workouts a week of 45 minutes each."

    As a distance runner you don't really want to "pack on solid muscle" you're looking more for resolving muscular imbalances and injury prevention. Check out "The New Rules Of Lifting" - I've been reading that and really like the author's attitude.
  • Brian_VA
    Brian_VA Posts: 125
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    I am sort of the opposite as you. Have been doing mostly strength training for several years. SL5x5 starts out easy, but as you progress the weight increases and gets very intense as you reach the limits of your strength and technique, giving your body just enough time to recover. The key point is that your increase the weight by 5 lbs every time you go to the gym (3x per week). For example, I started doing 95 lb squats and am now, three months later, am doing 240 lb squats. This takes a lot out of me! But the rapid increase in strength has been amazing!!!

    You would certainly be in control of how often you workout. The intensity increases slowly, and as you go you could space out the workouts (2 instead of 3 per wk for example) more as as to minimize impact your running.

    I highly recommend SL 5x5 as a way of quickly add real functional strength. I cannot directly comment on its impact on running. The SL 5x5 author says a byproduct of the strength training will enable you to run 3 miles "any time you want". I have not found it so, but am starting to train for a triathlon sprint. I just started and so far I am only able to run about 1 mile without resting. This is no better or worse than I expected. Let me know if I can answer other questions about SL 5x5. Send me a PM if I don't respond in this thread.
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
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    Like all training programs, you have to assess your goals. Why are you lifting? If the goal is to enhance your running program, then you need to analyze the demands of your particular events and design your program accordingly.

    As previously stated, if one is using resistance training primarily as an adjunct to a running program, then the emphasis would be on endurance, posture, and correcting any muscle imbalances. From what I understand of fell running, you could probably benefit from some strengthening as well.

    Exercises like squats, deadlifts, lunges would be beneficial--along with some variations of each. This would include step ups, step up/reverse lunge combos, one-legged split squats (back leg on a bench), and hip extension. Basic stuff for upper body. Core work would be useful as well, but I would do more movement-oriented exercises (medicine ball lifts, twists, and throws) rather than static exercises such as planks.

    In general, while running has been shown to interfere with mass and strength gains from lifting, lifting per se has not been shown to have any deleterious effects on running (unless you were to gain a lot of mass).
  • El_Rapido
    El_Rapido Posts: 136
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    Thank you all for replying. I'm not trying to pack on muscle as such but if it helps to give me some definition then who am I to complain!

    My thinking behind using this program is the strength gains for my core and legs, in some fell races we encounter big climb sections where we can be solidly gaining height for several miles. If I can gain more power and endurance for these climbs then I can only see it as a benefit.

    I'll give it a few weeks, if It becomes detrimental I will have to re-think.
  • doubletnurse
    doubletnurse Posts: 108 Member
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    I do not know anything about that program, but there is a group on here that you might be able to pose that question to as well. You can copy the following link and it should take you right to the group.

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/5542-stronglifts-5x5
  • Aperture_Science
    Aperture_Science Posts: 840 Member
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    Bump for reply on Monday.
  • IronSmasher
    IronSmasher Posts: 3,908 Member
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    I'd combine 5x5 with intervals, to try to get strong and look good naked.

    If you're running as many miles a week as I suspect you are, the two types of training are going to be too much.

    If you've not done much weight training before, you should consider the earlier suggestion of adding moderate reps and weights, along with the hill work you're already doing.
  • Huffdogg
    Huffdogg Posts: 1,934 Member
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    It's almost prohibitively difficult to train for strength and endurance at the same time. That having been said, SL is a program designed to start ridiculously light (for marketing reasons TBH), so it's not going to have a TON of impact right off the bat. My recommendation would be that when you approach a point where your lifting interferes with your running (or they begin to interfere with each other; word it however you like), then take another look at what you're doing and reassess what you want to concentrate on.
  • Huffdogg
    Huffdogg Posts: 1,934 Member
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    Just had a look at their website and I always get a little dubious when I read hyperbole like: "StrongLifts 5×5 is a foolproof training program guaranteed to pack on solid muscle and raw strength... while burning body fat... regardless of your age, genetics and bodytype... in only 3 workouts a week of 45 minutes each."

    As a distance runner you don't really want to "pack on solid muscle" you're looking more for resolving muscular imbalances and injury prevention. Check out "The New Rules Of Lifting" - I've been reading that and really like the author's attitude.

    Honestly they're based on the same principles. SL is just created by a "marketing guy." SL is really just a hack of Starting Strength, the veritable Bible of strength training for beginners.
  • Aperture_Science
    Aperture_Science Posts: 840 Member
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    El Rapido

    As promised a reply... but first some background.

    As you know, I'm a runner who lifts*. My training program is Starting Strength but as Huffdog points out SS and SL 5x5 are similar to the point of being pretty much the same thing. I've been lifting on an off using this pro0gram for over a year now and during that time I have also continued to run, including races (not to your level or frequency but I've still been packing the miles in for me!).

    *well actually I used to classify myself as a runner who lifts. I’ve now shifted the balance to describe myself as someone who
    Runs AND Lifts.

    A typical week would be like this:

    Monday Lift
    Tuesday Run (usually 6 miles with hills)
    Wednesday Lift
    Thursday Run (usually 5 to 6 miles flat or a speed session, sometimes a Tabata sprint session)
    Friday Lift
    Saturday Run (long steady, normally a 10 mile flat run)
    Sunday Rest

    During each strength session I am pushing myself as hard as I can. I do not "ease off" because I have a long run the following day etc.

    During this period I've eaten at a 300 to 500 cals deficit tried to get a minimum of 130g Protein (about 1g per lb of lean body mass) and 50g fat (about 0.4g per lb body mass).

    Has my running suffered? No. I can still run as far and as fast as I could before the lifting program and that is interesting when you consider that before starting SS I was running 4-5 days a week (not the current 3) and cross training was calisthenics.

    Am I stronger? Yes. During the early days my strength increased well but this increase has tapered off to the point of a complete stall now. Note: This is probably more to do eating at a calorific deficit.

    Have I gained any muscle? No. Not even a little. See http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/Aperture_Science/view/getting-graphic-276748 for details but basically I've lost 10kg or weight, 10 cm from my waist but nothing from my bicep measurement.

    My thoughts on the whole thing are probably

    "So, you CAN do both. But, you probably can not excel at both. If I wanted to be significantly stronger I would need to eat more, lift more and run less (if at all). If I wanted to run further* and/or faster, the lower body weights would definitely need to go, maybe even the upper body stuff too."

    (from this thread: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/554928-can-you-lift-heavy-p90x-and-run-long-distance)
    other threads that may be of interest are:

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/576273-those-of-you-that-lift-heavy-and-distance-run
    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/580331-runners-what-weight-training

    Best wishes mate!
  • Huffdogg
    Huffdogg Posts: 1,934 Member
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    Have I gained any muscle? No. Not even a little. See http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/Aperture_Science/view/getting-graphic-276748 for details but basically I've lost 10kg or weight, 10 cm from my waist but nothing from my bicep measurement.

    This does not mean you did not gain muscle. You ought to give a bf% test a shot. Hard to say for sure since you didn't do it beforehand but just because you didn't gain *weight* doesn't mean you didn't gain any *muscle.*
  • Aperture_Science
    Aperture_Science Posts: 840 Member
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    Have I gained any muscle? No. Not even a little. See http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/Aperture_Science/view/getting-graphic-276748 for details but basically I've lost 10kg or weight, 10 cm from my waist but nothing from my bicep measurement.

    This does not mean you did not gain muscle. You ought to give a bf% test a shot. Hard to say for sure since you didn't do it beforehand but just because you didn't gain *weight* doesn't mean you didn't gain any *muscle.*

    I never say that because I'd not gained weight I had not gained muscle. I said that I had not gained muscle because my mid point bicep measurement had not shown an increase over the 6 months period studied.

    Agree it would be good to have a decent %BF measure but as you say... I don't have a start point for that.
  • Huffdogg
    Huffdogg Posts: 1,934 Member
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    I never say that because I'd not gained weight I had not gained muscle. I said that I had not gained muscle because my mid point bicep measurement had not shown an increase over the 6 months period studied.

    If you stuck with SS, your bicep would be one of the last points you'd see real growth, as it's a smaller secondary group not really getting any concentration work via SS. If you're incorporating chins religiously, then I could see an expectation of bicep growth. Otherwise, it might have been better to use a different measurement as your benchmark. ;)
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
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    I squarely in the "lifter who (barely) runs category so take my thoughts for what you will. In my experience, the lifting will not hamper your running at all. Maybe initially because of soreness for the first two weeks, but after that you'll be fine.

    It actually goes the other way. Lots of running will hamper your strength and muscle gains. But it's not a big deal for you, because running is your priority. And you'll still gain, it'll just be slower than if you were lifting without all the running. If your goals were reversed it would be more of an issue.

    You'll be fine. And stronglifts is an ideal program for a person that runs so much because it keeps the sets and reps low which will aid your recovery.
  • Aperture_Science
    Aperture_Science Posts: 840 Member
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    I never say that because I'd not gained weight I had not gained muscle. I said that I had not gained muscle because my mid point bicep measurement had not shown an increase over the 6 months period studied.

    If you stuck with SS, your bicep would be one of the last points you'd see real growth, as it's a smaller secondary group not really getting any concentration work via SS. If you're incorporating chins religiously, then I could see an expectation of bicep growth. Otherwise, it might have been better to use a different measurement as your benchmark. ;)

    I do chins as an additional movement on my "A" set day (Squat, Bench, Dead).
  • MinimalistShoeAddict
    MinimalistShoeAddict Posts: 1,946 Member
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    I am new to SL and started running last fall. I ran my first half marathon last weekend and hope to run my first full marathon this summer.

    This is the marathon plan I am starting
    http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51138/Marathon-Novice-2-Training-Program

    My previous lifting plan was:

    Workout A: Squats 5x5, Bench Press 5x5, Barbell Rows 5x5
    Workout B: Squats 5x5, Overhead Press 5x5, Deadlift 1x5
    Repeat Workouts A and B each M,W,F

    I am modifying StrongLifts to this new schedule (just two days a week with some added work on each)
    Tuesday: Squats 5x5, Bench Press 5x5, Barbell Rows 5x5, Weighted Dips 3×5, Hanging Leg Lifts 3x5
    Thursday: Squats 5x5, Overhead Press 5x5, Deadlift 1x5, Weighted Pull-ups/Chin-ups 3×5

    I am hoping this will give my legs more time to rest and I can remain fresh for my long weekend runs.
  • MoreBean13
    MoreBean13 Posts: 8,701 Member
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    I am a runner, and I do a 2-day program in the spirit of SL 5x5, so my schedule follows a 3-day turnaround,

    1-Run
    2-Lift
    3-Rest
    This schedule worked itself out because my runs go WAY better the day before I lift than after, with dead legs. Often I do a short run or walk on rest days just to shake off stiffness.

    Also, I usually do an extra run day to keep the schedule fitting a weekly schedule. My two lifting days are very similar:
    A) Squats, Deadlifts, Bench Press, Chin ups, Dips, OHP, Lunges
    B) Squats, Bench Press, Chin ups, Dips, Lunges, Auxiliary lifts (usually flys and rear delts, or seated cable rows)
    Usually one of the lifting days I'll squeeze in a HIIT session afterwards, but my lifting already takes ~75 mins a pop at the shortest, so I don't always have time, and I don't freak out about it if I don't.
  • taylorwaylor
    taylorwaylor Posts: 417 Member
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    Maybe you could just lift 2x a week instead of 3... since running is your main focus anyways. Also, make sure you eat a lot and the right foods! loooots of protein!

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