Question for the heavy lifters out there
damorzacon
Posts: 124 Member
I've recently purchased a gym membership and starting throwing the heavy stuff around. My question is this:
I still have about 60 pounds I'd like to lose, so should I work in some cardio after I lift or will the lifting/new muscle be sufficient to burn fat? I'm still trying to work out my routine but I've got it down to an upper/lower body split 4 days a week, I do about 5-10 minutes on a bike to warm up before lifting and on Mondays I work in a spin class (thumbs up for free classes with a membership!).
Thoughts?
I still have about 60 pounds I'd like to lose, so should I work in some cardio after I lift or will the lifting/new muscle be sufficient to burn fat? I'm still trying to work out my routine but I've got it down to an upper/lower body split 4 days a week, I do about 5-10 minutes on a bike to warm up before lifting and on Mondays I work in a spin class (thumbs up for free classes with a membership!).
Thoughts?
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Replies
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A lot of people do JUST lifting. Primarily because cardio can (not will, but can) interfere with strength gains.
If you do cardio, do them on days you aren't strength training on. You should be wiped after your lifting session anyway.0 -
Some of this can be gauged by the intensity of your strength training sessions. If they are intense enough, then no need for additional cardio. You'd have to make that decision.
With the one extra day you are committing to spin now, that isn't excessive. So, if you like the spin class, you can keep that in there.
ETA: I wouldn't lift on the spin day, though.0 -
Its all about what your goals are. When I started losing weight I already had been lifting weights for a while just had poor eating habits. So I ended up doing cardio and weights together. As I dropped weight my strength deminished a lot but that was to be expected. If you want to keep increasing your strength more than focus of dropping lbs you should only do limited cardio. If you are more focussed on the weight I would do carido as much as your body will allow you.0
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the question is: can you achive deficit you want to achive wothout burning extra kcals?
if yes, then you do not need cardio
you might want cardio (good for your health, especially for heart)
but you don't need it. to lose weight you need to eat at deficit.0 -
The lifting should be sufficient. As long as you have a calorie deficit, you will lose fat
Extra cardio is good for a few reasons though:
1) You get to eat more, which is great if your net calories are too low for your liking.
2) You improve cardiovascular health
For me personally, I hate cardio, so I don't do it. I'm active enough in my daily life, walking everywhere, and an hours lifting 4 x a week certainly gets my HR up.0 -
^ This is a great answer.the question is: can you achive deficit you want to achive wothout burning extra kcals?
if yes, then you do not need cardio
you might want cardio (good for your health, especially for heart)
but you don't need it. to lose weight you need to eat at deficit.
A couple reasons you may want to add cardio:
So you can eat more and maintain the same deficit,
If you are training for an endurance event,
or to increase cardiovascular health.
I just finished a cut cycle and only did cardio once/week for 20 minutes but lifted 4 days/week, 30 min/session0 -
I lift quite heavy and have just started doing cardio just because i have some personal goals i want to hit. I just make sure to eat more to make sure my deficit isnt very extreme, this keeps me strength up.0
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A lot of people do JUST lifting. Primarily because cardio can (not will, but can) interfere with strength gains.
If you do cardio, do them on days you aren't strength training on. You should be wiped after your lifting session anyway.
I just started so I've been working up to the really heavy workouts. I finally went for it today and I don't think I could have done cardio today. It felt great! It's exactly why I stopped workout with friends who were working on their pretty muscles...I didn't feel like I was doing any work.Some of this can be gauged by the intensity of your strength training sessions. If they are intense enough, then no need for additional cardio. You'd have to make that decision.
With the one extra day you are committing to spin now, that isn't excessive. So, if you like the spin class, you can keep that in there.
ETA: I wouldn't lift on the spin day, though.
I hit it while I'm there. Short rests and moving on to the next set quickly.
I think I will take Monday as spin only...it's hard to work weights around it.Its all about what your goals are. When I started losing weight I already had been lifting weights for a while just had poor eating habits. So I ended up doing cardio and weights together. As I dropped weight my strength deminished a lot but that was to be expected. If you want to keep increasing your strength more than focus of dropping lbs you should only do limited cardio. If you are more focussed on the weight I would do carido as much as your body will allow you.
I want to lose the weight but at this point I don't have a specific goal anymore. I'm going more on how my clothes feel...which seems to be working because they're starting to fit differently and people are noticing, which is always nice.
Thanks for the input everyone!!0 -
The lifting should be sufficient. As long as you have a calorie deficit, you will lose fat
Extra cardio is good for a few reasons though:
1) You get to eat more, which is great if your net calories are too low for your liking.
2) You improve cardiovascular health
For me personally, I hate cardio, so I don't do it. I'm active enough in my daily life, walking everywhere, and an hours lifting 4 x a week certainly gets my HR up.
This! I hate cardio! Spin isn't so bad but running is terrible!0 -
I like a 30 min cardio at the end of my lift to take the large muscle groups, working together, to exhaustion. Growth comes rapidly when you are working to exhaustion. Be careful though, because the next thing after exhaustion is injury. I like your warm up idea. My warm-up consists of stretching, jump rope and push-ups.0
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You don't need cardio to lose fat weight. You need a CONSISTENT correct calorie deficit. Lifting will keep the muscle. So keep lifting.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
As others have posted, doing an excess of cardio will limit strength gains, simply because your body will be burning calories for fuel that it needs to repair muscles.
That being said, I would suggest working cardio *into* your lifting routine. Get a stopwatch, and only take 90-120 seconds rest in between sets. It will keep your heartrate up, and keep you from walking around the gym posing in the mirror and checking out the girls on the treadmill. You could "pyramid" the rest as well...30 seconds first set, 45 seconds second set, etc. Another way to get cardio into lifting heavy is by throwing in some Olympic lifting moves, like Clean Jerks and Snatches, which work the whole body. Your heart has to work hard to get 100+ pounds up off the floor and over your head. A lot of gyms wont let you do these types of moves though, so ask first before you get yelled at. You should also be taught them, don't just try and jump into them. You will get hurt.
Personally, I lift heavy only twice a week, but I lifts that incorporate multiple muscle groups to make my exercise more effective. Deadlifts, DB Rows, Power Cleans, things like that. I also work in a 15-20 minutes bodyweight workout after I finish that has me doing quick sets of pullups, situps, and squats, etc. I hate traditional cardio, so it works for me.
My opinions only. Flames to PM.0 -
the question is: can you achieve deficit you want to achieve without burning extra cals?
if yes, then you do not need cardio
you might want cardio (good for your health, especially for heart)
but you don't need it to lose weight - you need to eat at deficit.
Exactly.
end thread0 -
the question is: can you achive deficit you want to achive wothout burning extra kcals?
if yes, then you do not need cardio
you might want cardio (good for your health, especially for heart)
but you don't need it. to lose weight you need to eat at deficit.
New question. I understand eating at a deficit (it's how I lost my weight until now) but I keep reading that in order to build muscle you need to eat more than your maintainance calories. What do I do about this? Just accept that I won't see a lot of strength gain for now?0 -
if i were you, Id do your workout, then go on the tredmill/elliptical for about 10-15 minutes. BUT here's the trick, on both the tredmill & elliptical, you should increase the level/incline up to as high as you can go, for a higher caloric burn. Also, in your diet, make sure your in a consistent caloric deficit. here's a great calculator to track how much calories you should get- http://www.calculator.net/calorie-calculator.html
reason u should do cardio AFTER weight training is because once your done working out[usually] your glycogen stores are pretty depleted, the body's next source of energy is fat stores[fat].
Currently in a course to become a personal trainer & going to college to be a nutritionist.0 -
I personally do both. I actually do upper one day, lower/core the next which usually works out to be about an hour. Because I am still obese (don't too much look it anymore but still am) so weight loss is still a factor. After my hour of lifting, I spend another hour on cardio (usually the treadmill) on an incline interval at a speed of about 3.5-3.8... Sometimes a little faster but other times not. I also try to work in a day or two of rest per week where I only walk or something along those lines... (with my job, it is not that hard to do to find days that I cannot go to the gym but I digress...) -- this Summer, I actually found that I NEEDED that rest day to recover some.
The result of this is that I have averaged about 12-15 lbs per month (was morbidly obese @ 344 at the onset) and have maintained a pretty steady loss (until this month... seems a little harder but Summers are different, schedule wise-- but still a decent loss for the month.. will probably be closer to 9-10 lbs for June -- then again I am closer to my goal too.
Here is the other thing I will note... I HAVE GOTTEN STRONGER. Am I getting as strong as I could if I had a calorie surplus rather than a calorie deficit? No way to tell... Is the cardio hindering me from what I COULD BE DOING otherwise? No way to tell that either... But when I started on the chest press machine (one example), I was barely pressing about 120 lbs and now about 4 months later am pressing 195 (8 reps)... Other machines are all stronger to one degree or another ... some more than others. I will say that I do make a conscious effort to ensure that I am getting enough PROTEIN in my diet. I also suggest doing your weights first and then the cardio if you do it that way.
In short, I'll say I know you can do both and make gains in both areas -- even on the same day. As to whether you would gain muscle faster without the cardio, it is really hard to say... The main thing is to NOT throw heavy weights around with BAD FORM.... Form is more important than that extra 20 lbs... Bad form causes setbacks and injuries... but by all means, push the heavy weights... just do it right... Best wishes on attaining your goals.0 -
if i were you, Id do your workout, then go on the tredmill/elliptical for about 10-15 minutes. BUT here's the trick, on both the tredmill & elliptical, you should increase the level/incline up to as high as you can go, for a higher caloric burn. Also, in your diet, make sure your in a consistent caloric deficit. here's a great calculator to track how much calories you should get- http://www.calculator.net/calorie-calculator.html
reason u should do cardio AFTER weight training is because once your done working out[usually] your glycogen stores are pretty depleted, the body's next source of energy is fat stores[fat].
Currently in a course to become a personal trainer & going to college to be a nutritionist.
Thanks for the calculator. I've used them before but it's been awhile since I have. I'm definately eating at a deficit according to that.0 -
I've been wondering a lot about this topic. Is there any way to know how many calories body building uses? MFP doesn't calculate it for you. I want to start lifting more seriously but my primary focus, at least until I lose another 15 pounds, must be on weight loss. Body building requires more calories/protein to build muscle, right? But I still need to maintain a deficit to lose fat. How do I find that number? Or, should I lose the weight I want to lose, then do weight lifting at a maintenance intake?0
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I personally do both. I actually do upper one day, lower/core the next which usually works out to be about an hour. Because I am still obese (don't too much look it anymore but still am) so weight loss is still a factor. After my hour of lifting, I spend another hour on cardio (usually the treadmill) on an incline interval at a speed of about 3.5-3.8... Sometimes a little faster but other times not. I also try to work in a day or two of rest per week where I only walk or something along those lines... (with my job, it is not that hard to do to find days that I cannot go to the gym but I digress...) -- this Summer, I actually found that I NEEDED that rest day to recover some.
The result of this is that I have averaged about 12-15 lbs per month (was morbidly obese @ 344 at the onset) and have maintained a pretty steady loss (until this month... seems a little harder but Summers are different, schedule wise-- but still a decent loss for the month.. will probably be closer to 9-10 lbs for June -- then again I am closer to my goal too.
Here is the other thing I will note... I HAVE GOTTEN STRONGER. Am I getting as strong as I could if I had a calorie surplus rather than a calorie deficit? No way to tell... Is the cardio hindering me from what I COULD BE DOING otherwise? No way to tell that either... But when I started on the chest press machine (one example), I was barely pressing about 120 lbs and now about 4 months later am pressing 195 (8 reps)... Other machines are all stronger to one degree or another ... some more than others. I will say that I do make a conscious effort to ensure that I am getting enough PROTEIN in my diet. I also suggest doing your weights first and then the cardio if you do it that way.
In short, I'll say I know you can do both and make gains in both areas -- even on the same day. As to whether you would gain muscle faster without the cardio, it is really hard to say... The main thing is to NOT throw heavy weights around with BAD FORM.... Form is more important than that extra 20 lbs... Bad form causes setbacks and injuries... but by all means, push the heavy weights... just do it right... Best wishes on attaining your goals.
Thank you! I definitely agree on using proper form. It's hard to swallow my pride and put that light weight on while I'm working on form. Especially with the fit guys working out around me. Just gotta remember I'd rather do that than hurt myself.
I'm following a paleo-ish diet right now, so I'm pretty sure I'm getting enough protein. Haven't really tracked it though...it'd be interesting to see.0 -
cardio is king when trying to loose weight. so you have to decide what you want more. getting stronger or loosing those last 60 pounds. also are you on a time restraint. what is your goal to loose these 60 pounds. if you have a deadline to have them lost then cardio is going to help you reach that gaol alot quicker then lifting weights. that being said weights do have there place & do place a major role inregards to burning calories. doing cross fit workouts can help you burn calories hours after youve finished your work out. so i would say bump up cardio for at least 60 minutes a day 5 days a week. keep those calories in the negative to continue loosing & if you really have to hit the weights because i know how hard it is to give it up completely try researching cross fit workouts that most of the time include moves like, dead lifts, lunges, leg presses, hope this helps. good luck.0
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Lift Always
Lose weight with Diet
Cardio to control how much you can eat on a weekly basis, addtional burn
Do those things and you will win0 -
cardio is king when trying to loose weight. so you have to decide what you want more. getting stronger or loosing those last 60 pounds. also are you on a time restraint. what is your goal to loose these 60 pounds. if you have a deadline to have them lost then cardio is going to help you reach that gaol alot quicker then lifting weights. that being said weights do have there place & do place a major role inregards to burning calories. doing cross fit workouts can help you burn calories hours after youve finished your work out. so i would say bump up cardio for at least 60 minutes a day 5 days a week. keep those calories in the negative to continue loosing & if you really have to hit the weights because i know how hard it is to give it up completely try researching cross fit workouts that most of the time include moves like, dead lifts, lunges, leg presses, hope this helps. good luck.
No time limit, just gotta get it off.
I've looked into Crossfit and I like the idea of it. Haven't worked any in yet. I have been using the big lifts (squat, dead lift, bench) and working in others around those.0 -
Lift Always
Lose weight with Diet
Cardio to control how much you can eat on a weekly basis, addtional burn
Do those things and you will win
I wish there was a like button!0 -
Just accept that I won't see a lot of strength gain for now?
Yes and no. If you're more on the beginner side of things you can see some strength increase if you're not at a drastic negative and you're getting enough protein. Just don't expect huge gains in strength but you can still make some progress. The big win for you will be that roughing up your muscles tells your body to rebuild the damage. When you're giving your body the signals that you need those muscles it will be much less likely to use them for fuel when you're dropping weight. The result will be that as you're losing weight and retaining muscle you're going to start looking like you are increasing muscle size because you're changing body composition a lot. It's totally worth it to lift heavy while cutting down the body fat %.
I'm doing 30 minutes of cardio 5 days a week first thing in the morning and lifting at night 4 days a week. The progress is fantastic and I'm actually making some gains in the strength department. I noted that last night as I was doing dumbbell bench press. I needed to use 80 lb. dumbbells for the first 2 sets because the 70 lb size was just too easy now. This was after 4 sets of bar bench press so it's not a fluke. It's actual strength gains. I'm not quite back to where I was but getting closer.
To be fair I'm at a very small negative now because I'm really close to my goal so that factors into the equation. Expect gains to be minimal but they can happen if you're not already an advanced lifter. Mainly just do it to keep what you have as you lose weight.0 -
Strength gain and muscle gain are independent. If you follow a good lifting program, while eating at a deficit, you should see some significant strength gains even without an increase in size.
Try something like Starting Strength or StrongLifts 5x5. Get the most bang for your buck doing the big compound lifts.
edited, typo: even without increase in size.0 -
I do both, though not a ton of cardio compared to some, and any high intensity (of which there is little) is done on non-lifting days. I realize I don't *need* the cardio to lose fat, but I found that I didn't feel satisfied at all with the amount of calories I had without.
So apart from any other health benefits of cardio, it's really just a mood elevator because I can eat a little more 0 -
Just accept that I won't see a lot of strength gain for now?
Yes and no. If you're more on the beginner side of things you can see some strength increase if you're not at a drastic negative and you're getting enough protein. Just don't expect huge gains in strength but you can still make some progress. The big win for you will be that roughing up your muscles tells your body to rebuild the damage. When you're giving your body the signals that you need those muscles it will be much less likely to use them for fuel when you're dropping weight. The result will be that as you're losing weight and retaining muscle you're going to start looking like you are increasing muscle size because you're changing body composition a lot. It's totally worth it to lift heavy while cutting down the body fat %.
This makes sense. I think I can live with the body comp change 0 -
I hate cardio. Like others have said, if you strength train and you're in a calorie deficit you will lose weight. Doing extra cardio will just allow you to eat more.0
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the question is: can you achive deficit you want to achive wothout burning extra kcals?
if yes, then you do not need cardio
you might want cardio (good for your health, especially for heart)
but you don't need it. to lose weight you need to eat at deficit.
New question. I understand eating at a deficit (it's how I lost my weight until now) but I keep reading that in order to build muscle you need to eat more than your maintainance calories. What do I do about this? Just accept that I won't see a lot of strength gain for now?
You should still see pretty decent gains at first, because you are just making the muscle you already have stronger. I made huge gains the first 2 months, but now I've stalled on the larger muscle groups, and the smaller ones I'm making small gains.0 -
Strength gain and muscle gain are independent. If you follow a good lifting program, while eating at a deficit, you should see some significant strength gains even without an increase in size.
Try something like Starting Strength or StrongLifts 5x5. Get the most bang for your buck doing the big compound lifts.
edited, typo: even without increase in size.
This.0
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