Weight training - getting my facts straight!
catbrand
Posts: 227 Member
Hi, I just want to get my head round a few things, and make sure I'm understanding things right if someone could confirm / correct me if I'm wrong?
I would like to start lifting, I've bought NROLFW and read it a while back, but it's on someone else's kindle so not accessible at the moment. I'm thinking if I do it, I need to up my calories to TDEE + 15% to build, which if I do this I will still lose fat because I am using fat to build muscle right?
Because I can't start lifting / NROLFW straight away I will be using kettlebells in the meantime, so do I still need to up my calories the same way and use heavy KB's? Before now I've used a lighter KB (5 or 7.5kg) and it's seemed like more of a cardio workout, but I'm thinking if I up the weight it'll become a strength workout. Obviously I'm a little nervous about upping my calories without good reason!!
Would really appreciate it if someone could tell me if I'm on the right track or if I'm totally missing the point!!!:flowerforyou:
I would like to start lifting, I've bought NROLFW and read it a while back, but it's on someone else's kindle so not accessible at the moment. I'm thinking if I do it, I need to up my calories to TDEE + 15% to build, which if I do this I will still lose fat because I am using fat to build muscle right?
Because I can't start lifting / NROLFW straight away I will be using kettlebells in the meantime, so do I still need to up my calories the same way and use heavy KB's? Before now I've used a lighter KB (5 or 7.5kg) and it's seemed like more of a cardio workout, but I'm thinking if I up the weight it'll become a strength workout. Obviously I'm a little nervous about upping my calories without good reason!!
Would really appreciate it if someone could tell me if I'm on the right track or if I'm totally missing the point!!!:flowerforyou:
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Replies
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If you eat over maintenance, you will still gain fat, even in the presence of strength training. However, it's the only way to really build additional muscle.
You can still get stronger in a deficit to a point.0 -
Why are you starting with kettlebells? If it's just because you don't have the New Rules book, I'd suggest Strong Lifts.0
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I'm kinda with you that I'm afraid to up my calories lol, I want to "tone" and I shouldn't lose more weight but I'm still a little "cottage cheesy" on my lower body. Maybe I'm just not ready to gain weight because I'm not used to it.0
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I'm kinda with you that I'm afraid to up my calories lol, I want to "tone" and I shouldn't lose more weight but I'm still a little "cottage cheesy" on my lower body. Maybe I'm just not ready to gain weight because I'm not used to it.
Mmmm cottage cheese.... Sorry, you made me hungry lol.
It sounds like you still have to break yourself of old bad habits before you can continue on with your goals. You will need to eat more and you will need to weight train. Yes your weight will go up, and yes your inches will go down and your body will tone up.0 -
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The link is a very good starting place.
You should attack fat loss and muscle gain as two separate things. Your body can't do both at the same time. There are exceptions but it is generally the rule. Weight training essentially convinces your body to maintain muscle to handle additional stress (lifting weights).
You have to progressively increase the load to prevent adaptation. eg. get heavier kettle balls, do more reps, or add sets, or a combination.
In regards to calories, you can find out what maintenance is then add or subtract calories for the goal you want. For fat loss subtract 15 to %20, and for muscle gain add 15 to 20%.0 -
it sounds really interesting to me as I would love to have toned muscles but I am afraid: if I stop weight lifting for whatever reason, am I going to lose all the toning at once and gain weight? once I start, do I have to keep doing it for the rest of my life? or can it be replaced by something else?0
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Theres obviously going to be many different opinions on what to do in this situation. My suggestion for weight training begginers is to always aim for maintinance caloires while increasing the amount of protein they normally intake. Begginers can see short term gains in muscle while losing fat. This will not happen forever, and you will eventually need to increase your calories like you stated. However, for the time being I would just hover at maintinance while lifting heavy. Once you hit a strength plateau, increase the calories a SMALL amount0
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You can lift weights while on a calorie deficit. You won't put on much (or any) muscle mass, but you can still gain strength (through neuromuscular adaptation, increased bone density and connective tissue strength). It will allow you to keep most of the lean mass that you already have while you continue to burn fat, instead of losing muscle along with fat.
If you eventually want to add more muscle, you will have to eat more food for a while, which will put on weight as both muscle and fat. Then you can go back on a calorie deficit to cut the fat, and so on.0 -
Thanks for the replies! I've had a good read of Stacey's story, Wow, I would love results like hers!!
I want to start with kettlebells because I don't really have the money to join the gym at the moment and I can do kettlebells at home. When I'm able to join the gym I'd consider starting NROLFW, but I do really enjoy kettlebells at the moment so if I can use those as a suitable strength training program that would be great.
Interesting to read about starting at maintenance calories, that's not the first time I've read that today, so definitely something I'm willing to try. I have also been reading about a metabolic reset too, although I'm not convinced I need to do that since I've been eating at TDEE - 15% for the last few months anyway. It's only the last 6 weeks or so that I've not really been losing so looking for a complete change in regime and I've been wanting to strength train for a while, so why not now?0 -
Thanks for the replies! I've had a good read of Stacey's story, Wow, I would love results like hers!!
I want to start with kettlebells because I don't really have the money to join the gym at the moment and I can do kettlebells at home. When I'm able to join the gym I'd consider starting NROLFW, but I do really enjoy kettlebells at the moment so if I can use those as a suitable strength training program that would be great.
Interesting to read about starting at maintenance calories, that's not the first time I've read that today, so definitely something I'm willing to try. I have also been reading about a metabolic reset too, although I'm not convinced I need to do that since I've been eating at TDEE - 15% for the last few months anyway. It's only the last 6 weeks or so that I've not really been losing so looking for a complete change in regime and I've been wanting to strength train for a while, so why not now?
Kettlebells are an AMAZING form of workout for people of all fitness levels, but it is very important you have a strong back going into it, or at least no known back problems. And good form is a MUST. Don't copy Jillian's! She'll get you hurt and badly.0 -
When I'm able to join the gym I'd consider starting NROLFW, but I do really enjoy kettlebells at the moment so if I can use those as a suitable strength training program that would be great.
There are plenty of workouts you can do at home.
http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/women.html
http://scoobysworkshop.com/womens-workouts/
With some Googling you can find more. You can always get some used weights on craigslist on the cheap.0 -
You cannot build muscle on a caloric deficit (with the exception of noob gains) and you cannot lose weight while on a caloric surplus. If you want to gain muscle, go with a 10-20% caloric surplus above your TDEE, if you want to lose, go with a 10-20% caloric deficit. Easy as that.
If you start working out, please don't let the scale fool you, you will experience noob gains and most likely gain a few pounds, but those are muscle pounds (lean weight).
Kettle bells will be a good place to start as long as you do it regularly (as with anything with exercise). Make sure you take it easy for the first few workouts to get your current strength levels. Make sure you write everything down so you can track your progress too!0 -
You cannot build muscle on a caloric deficit (with the exception of noob gains) and you cannot lose weight while on a caloric surplus. If you want to gain muscle, go with a 10-20% caloric surplus above your TDEE, if you want to lose, go with a 10-20% caloric deficit. Easy as that.
If you start working out, please don't let the scale fool you, you will experience noob gains and most likely gain a few pounds, but those are muscle pounds (lean weight).
Kettle bells will be a good place to start as long as you do it regularly (as with anything with exercise). Make sure you take it easy for the first few workouts to get your current strength levels. Make sure you write everything down so you can track your progress too!
This is pretty much what I was thinking, I expected that I would gain due to adding muscle, but I thought I would lose body fat along the way too.
Since I'm still 30lbs away from my goal weight would it be a good idea to wait until I'm closer to my goal to start strength training?0 -
This is pretty much what I was thinking, I expected that I would gain due to adding muscle, but I thought I would lose body fat along the way too.
Since I'm still 30lbs away from my goal weight would it be a good idea to wait until I'm closer to my goal to start strength training?
Forget about weight, focus on BF% and how you feel about the way you look. Weight is only part of the equation. There's no need to wait. Muscles are your body's natural fat burners.
Weight really doesn't mean anything. You can drink 16oz of water and weigh a pound more, but you didn't get fatter.
FYI, if you start weight training, you will be sore at first! Fight through it!!!!0 -
This is pretty much what I was thinking, I expected that I would gain due to adding muscle, but I thought I would lose body fat along the way too.
Since I'm still 30lbs away from my goal weight would it be a good idea to wait until I'm closer to my goal to start strength training?
Forget about weight, focus on BF% and how you feel about the way you look. Weight is only part of the equation. There's no need to wait. Muscles are your body's natural fat burners.
Weight really doesn't mean anything. You can drink 16oz of water and weigh a pound more, but you didn't get fatter.
FYI, if you start weight training, you will be sore at first! Fight through it!!!!
OK, that's cool, I'm at a goodish place right now, I've lost 77lbs and weigh 168, but I have no idea of my true BF%, my scales say 32% but I don't believe it. My legs are very muscular already and my arms have little muscles too, I already feel a little toned from 30DS and kickboxing, but I have wobbly thigh tops and belly that I can't shift, it's loose skin and I can't afford a tummy tuck, I'm hoping some strength training will help build muscle to support it better and fill it until it shrinks a bit (since I'm only 26 I'm hoping that it'll shrink a bit) But at a UK size 14 with a large frame, I think a goal weight of 140 was probably low with strength training added.
This has all given me some really helpful info everyone!!0 -
Sounds like you really want to cut fat and develop your muscle structure. You don't need to add muscle tissue to do that. Just develop what you have. You can do that while in a reasonable deficit, say, TDEE - 20%. Why do you feel you need to add more muscle tissue?0
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If loose skin is concern I'd suggest slowing down fat loss to allow your skin time to adjust to its new size. Maybe shoot to lose 1/2 to 1 pound per week.
Remember, muscle takes less space than fat, so you can't just add muscle mass and expect it to fill out where the fat was. At 26 you might be young enough that your skin just adjusts very quickly if loss isn't too drastic in too short a time.
Finding your BF is easy, just go to any gym with a free or low cost trial membership and see if one of the trainers will measure you. It takes a few minutes depending on number of sites measured. Alternately you can buy a pair of cheap calipers and it'll give you an idea, but wouldn't be as accurate.0 -
Sounds like you really want to cut fat and develop your muscle structure. You don't need to add muscle tissue to do that. Just develop what you have. You can do that while in a reasonable deficit, say, TDEE - 20%. Why do you feel you need to add more muscle tissue?
Yep, that's pretty much what I want!! But that's how I've been eating for the last few months with the exception of a few dodgy days. I was under the impression that adding a good strength training routine and thus adding more muscle, would use also burn more fat? plus it looks good!!
Having thought about it though, if I'm honest, I could probably have eaten a little better, there are the odd days I go over, then the odd days I net under BMR, the days I don't eat as clean as I should...0 -
If loose skin is concern I'd suggest slowing down fat loss to allow your skin time to adjust to its new size. Maybe shoot to lose 1/2 to 1 pound per week.
Remember, muscle takes less space than fat, so you can't just add muscle mass and expect it to fill out where the fat was. At 26 you might be young enough that your skin just adjusts very quickly if loss isn't too drastic in too short a time.
Finding your BF is easy, just go to any gym with a free or low cost trial membership and see if one of the trainers will measure you. It takes a few minutes depending on number of sites measured. Alternately you can buy a pair of cheap calipers and it'll give you an idea, but wouldn't be as accurate.
I'll have a word at the local gym and see if they do the measurements there, thanks. I'd love to know what my BF% is! I did try and work it out online using measurements and it came out at about 26%, but I know the only way to know is to get properly measured. As for slowing down my fat loss, that's easy as I'm not losing anything at the moment!! That's why I'm looking at ways to completely change my routine, but yeah, I didn't quite mean I wanted to fill up my whole belly with muscle, but I'm hoping for the best in terms of skin shrinkage!0 -
The link is a very good starting place.
You should attack fat loss and muscle gain as two separate things. Your body can't do both at the same time.0 -
The link is a very good starting place.
You should attack fat loss and muscle gain as two separate things. Your body can't do both at the same time. .0 -
The link is a very good starting place.
You should attack fat loss and muscle gain as two separate things. Your body can't do both at the same time. .
Actually you can. The results just may not be as dramatic.0 -
Sounds like you really want to cut fat and develop your muscle structure. You don't need to add muscle tissue to do that. Just develop what you have. You can do that while in a reasonable deficit, say, TDEE - 20%. Why do you feel you need to add more muscle tissue?
Yep, that's pretty much what I want!! But that's how I've been eating for the last few months with the exception of a few dodgy days. I was under the impression that adding a good strength training routine and thus adding more muscle, would use also burn more fat? plus it looks good!!
Having thought about it though, if I'm honest, I could probably have eaten a little better, there are the odd days I go over, then the odd days I net under BMR, the days I don't eat as clean as I should...
A good strength training routine can add muscle but doesn't have to. You can use a good strength training routine to develop the muscle that you have and become leaner and more fit without adding muscle tissue. The benefit of adding 1 pound of muscle is about 6 calories per day in fat burning. Negligible at best. But strength training can help burn fat and develop your existing muscle tissue. It will help you to look great also!0 -
The link is a very good starting place.
You should attack fat loss and muscle gain as two separate things. Your body can't do both at the same time. .
Actually you can. The results just may not be as dramatic.
How is this possible (newbie gains and for very overweight people aside)?0 -
Nope you can start right away. You won't build muscle as fast as if you were eating at a surplus, but you will preserve more of your muscle while you are losing your fat than if you weren't lifting. Which is a very good thing.Since I'm still 30lbs away from my goal weight would it be a good idea to wait until I'm closer to my goal to start strength training?0 -
Nope you can start right away. You won't build muscle as fast as if you were eating at a surplus, but you will preserve more of your muscle while you are losing your fat than if you weren't lifting. Which is a very good thing.Since I'm still 30lbs away from my goal weight would it be a good idea to wait until I'm closer to my goal to start strength training?
Absolutely this!0 -
The link is a very good starting place.
You should attack fat loss and muscle gain as two separate things. Your body can't do both at the same time. .
Actually you can. The results just may not be as dramatic.
How is this possible (newbie gains and for very overweight people aside)?
When you stress a muscle you cause micro tears. Your body repairs those tears and available leaves a slightly larger muscle. Almost like a scar. Nutrition, rest, age, sex, genes and the condition you are in to begin with are variables in the amount of muscle gained. This process occurs both when you are burning fat and when you are already lean and not burning fat. If the muscle is still surrounded by fat, the larger muscle is not readily apparent. If you have a low bmi--20s for men, any increase in muscle size is apparent to the observer. However, unless you have put your body in crisis by starving yourself, or you are ill, you will gain muscle by stressing the muscle (lifting weights) and resting for a proper interval. You will probably gain even without the rest day or two, but not as rapidly.0 -
The link is a very good starting place.
You should attack fat loss and muscle gain as two separate things. Your body can't do both at the same time. .
Actually you can. The results just may not be as dramatic.
How is this possible (newbie gains and for very overweight people aside)?
When you stress a muscle you cause micro tears. Your body repairs those tears and available leaves a slightly larger muscle. Almost like a scar. Nutrition, rest, age, sex, genes and the condition you are in to begin with are variables in the amount of muscle gained. This process occurs both when you are burning fat and when you are already lean and not burning fat. If the muscle is still surrounded by fat, the larger muscle is not readily apparent. If you have a low bmi--20s for men, any increase in muscle size is apparent to the observer. However, unless you have put your body in crisis by starving yourself, or you are ill, you will gain muscle by stressing the muscle (lifting weights) and resting for a proper interval. You will probably gain even without the rest day or two, but not as rapidly.
What you are explaining is neuromuscular adaptation - not new muscle growth.0 -
The link is a very good starting place.
You should attack fat loss and muscle gain as two separate things. Your body can't do both at the same time. .
Actually you can. The results just may not be as dramatic.
How is this possible (newbie gains and for very overweight people aside)?
When you stress a muscle you cause micro tears. Your body repairs those tears and available leaves a slightly larger muscle. Almost like a scar. Nutrition, rest, age, sex, genes and the condition you are in to begin with are variables in the amount of muscle gained. This process occurs both when you are burning fat and when you are already lean and not burning fat. If the muscle is still surrounded by fat, the larger muscle is not readily apparent. If you have a low bmi--20s for men, any increase in muscle size is apparent to the observer. However, unless you have put your body in crisis by starving yourself, or you are ill, you will gain muscle by stressing the muscle (lifting weights) and resting for a proper interval. You will probably gain even without the rest day or two, but not as rapidly.
I mean no direspect but this is not accurate. When you stress a muscle the micor tears repair but do not create new muscle tissue in the abscence of the fuel to do that. That means eating in a calories surplus above TDEE. The exceptions to this are newbies to lifting, very obese or athletes returning to training after a workout. You can develop existing tissue but you can't "gain muscle", meaning grow new muscle cells, in a calorie deficit.0
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