Opinions on childhood obesity...
Replies
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I was a single parent for 18 years. I worked fulltime and raised two children. I completely agree that it is the parents responsibility to educated and monitor your child's health. A parent is completely responsible for their child's health.
My stepson came to live with me and my honey when he was 7. He weighed 151. He spent all his time watching tv and playing video games. In the first 6 months of him living with us, I had him on a healthy diet and had him play outside everyday instead of watching tv. He lost 40lbs. He is 10 and at a healthy weight. He plays outside by choice now
It's all about parenting. I do not force my children or stepchildren to eat anything they hate however I do monitor their junk intake and I make healthy meals. Now we will have pizza or fried chicken occasionally but in general we eat healthy at home
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Fatty McFat *kitten*0
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I think most of the time the parents are to blame. It is a parents duty to keep their kids healthy.
I will say that despite all that my mother did (healthy home cooked meals, sports, swim team) I was always a little over weight, but not obese. I would hide food and eat fast food and candy whenever I was away from her. I was and still am a picky eater.0 -
In most instances, it is the parents fault for their child's obesity, but not in all cases. I was overweight from around age 8 until 11. My parents were complete health nuts and I was the only overweight person in the house. My sister was a stringbean. My parents didn't keep alot of junk food in the house, my mom made everything from scratched, and my father gave us freshly squeezed vegetable juice on a regular basis. I loved fruit, vegetables, and other healthy foods that my parents geave me everyday. The problem for me was not what was in the house. It was all the goodies I got when I wasn't at home. I was extremely active, but I overate. Every morning on my way walking to school, I would stop at the neighborhood store and spend money from my allowance on cookies, fudge brownies, and other sweets. My mom didn't know. She saw me gaining weight, but she never was too hard on me about it. She just continued to be a good example. When I decided to lose weight, I used my parents example and lost the weight. Since I was already active, I only needed to cut out all those extra sweets. When I did that, I lost the extra weight very quickly and was able to enter middle school slim and trim like I had planned. I don't blame my parents for me being an overweight child and I do give them credit for being the example I needed to get to a healthy weight.
It's unfair to blame parents without knowing for sure if they are actually to blame.
I work for a child nutrition program for low income families and counsel parents of overweight children regularly. In most cases, the parents are the blame and sometimes they're not. Some of these moms feel completely helpless because they leave their child with the grandmother or aunt or another family member while they work because they can't afford childcare and while the child is in the care of others, they're receiving all kinds of healthy foods. In alot of these instances, the young mother is often ignored when she tries to tell that older family member what not to feed their child. It's sad sometimes.
Overall, parents need to set good examples so that the child has the tools they need to achieve and/or maintain a healthy weight whether or not the parents are to blame for their child's obesity.
I love thoughtful posts like this one.0 -
Easy Kick those kids off the couch and out side to play. Go dig a hole, go throw,kick.hit,catch a ball. Go pick up bugs just go outside and stay out there. Ever heard of play60? If the parents are fat they need to go play with them DON'T be LAZY!!!0
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Easy Kick those kids off the couch and out side to play. Go dig a hole, go throw,kick.hit,catch a ball. Go pick up bugs just go outside and stay out there. Ever heard of play60? If the parents are fat they need to go play with them DON'T be LAZY!!!
I blame video games. Every time I play Modern Warfare 3, I end up getting beat by a buch of little fat kids, I just know it.0 -
Its child niglect. You do not have to keep giving your kids Happy meals and Ho Ho's. make them get outside a little and work some to teach responsability.0
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Wrong.
The PARENTS control what the kid does, and what comes into the house, and what kind of eating habits these kids will have. If they are obese, the parents should take the full blame and, to a radical extent, I think they should be charged with child abuse.
To some extent. You can't FORCE a kid to eat things. I tried to push the issue with my fifteen year old when he was five. I was going to MAKE him eat that broccoli. He ate it all right... and made himself throw up on the table. My two year old will throw things that he doesn't like on the floor and will go hungry before eating something "ucky." (This is why I keep other things around that are healthy that he will eat.)
Sure, I can keep things out, but I can't force good eating. I'm going to guess that you don't have children. Once you have your own, you realize that everything is not as black and white as you seem to think.
As I already mentioned, success is a choice - no excuses.
First, none of my kids are fat but very fit - head and shoulders above 90% of their peers.
We have 5 kids.
I make them train and eat what I prepare, and we allow no junk food, soda or TV.
They indeed carp, and my response is always the same.
Eat what I make, or eat NOTHING, and in extreme cases taste belt leather.
End of story.
I refuse to raise what I see too much of in American society: fat, underachieving kids who will grow up to be fat, unhappy adults.
They can hate me now to love me later or whatever. It's not a popularity contest.
As a parent, I have a job to do.
If you're such an ambassador for healthy living, how did you get overweight?0 -
'I know a few parents that have obese children and the parents themselves are not obese or overweight at all. This is something I do not understand because I know for a fact that the parents are eating properly but they let their children eat whatever whenever. And then there are overweight parents and overweight children which I do understand "like mother like daughter, etc."
I do no think that people should ever be taught to be ashamed of what they look like weight wise because it severely contributes to adult depression and low self worth and other things like that. My parents were very adamant about finishing the food you take because we do not waste and in the next breath telling me I need to eat less and get more physical. I truly believe this contributes to my weight today (hence why I'm trying to lose so much of it). My sister however is a health nut who has two children very well behaved and very active. I believe it is because she and her husband are both active and eat healthy in appropriate amounts. They have never given their children another option to eat more than they need or junk food. See for them it is easy because they have always been that way, for others who started off badly have a more difficult time. I guess once you get passed the hard part of breaking the habits then everything comes naturally, basically the same way us as adults have to do it. I do not believe there is anything wrong with being the bad guy as a parents every once and a while.
I come across too many people who let their children eat what they want and be lazy and never go outside or anything and unfortunately technology isn't doing us any favours this day in age. I just hope that no parent out there would ever tell their child that they are fat or lazy or any of those horrid names because it will create a more negative impact on their lives than them being overweight ever could.
Parents are definitely the cause of overweight children and they have no one to blame but themselves. Just don't buy junk food and don't go out all the time. Cook at home and make enough for the people you are serving and that way you won't have left overs which leaves options for seconds or thirds in one sitting.
Good luck to all of you parents out there with overweight children and if you are overweight yourself because it is a life style change and it will be hard for your children to see it but in the long run they'll be thankful you did.0 -
TL;DR
Some people are bad parents
NO, it's not that they are bad parents! Cuz their not! It's something that was formed when they we're a child and they are unsure how to change it.
I know I was raised in the south where everything is fried and has tons of butter and salt.
it's just one of those things that back then they lived like that but worked their butts off. Now days you are still eating the same but less exercise to none at all.
I am 22, I've been obese since I was a pre teen when I would sneak into the fridge while they were asleep and eat all kinds of food.
I never learned proper portion size or to cook properly until now. I have a foreman and steamer and that's what I mainly use to cook.
I have made a vow to myself that if/when I have a kid that I will not be like my family and let them get obese. I can only control in home but it will be healthy food in my house!0 -
If you're such an ambassador for healthy living, how did you get overweight?
:bigsmile:0 -
TL;DR
Some people are bad parents
NO, it's not that they are bad parents! Cuz their not! It's something that was formed when they we're a child and they are unsure how to change it.
I know I was raised in the south where everything is fried and has tons of butter and salt.
it's just one of those things that back then they lived like that but worked their butts off. Now days you are still eating the same but less exercise to none at all.
I am 22, I've been obese since I was a pre teen when I would sneak into the fridge while they were asleep and eat all kinds of food.
I never learned proper portion size or to cook properly until now. I have a foreman and steamer and that's what I mainly use to cook.
I have made a vow to myself that if/when I have a kid that I will not be like my family and let them get obese. I can only control in home but it will be healthy food in my house!0 -
My son is the top seeded tennis player at his High School.Wrong.
As I already mentioned, success is a choice - no excuses.
First, none of my kids are fat but very fit - head and shoulders above 90% of their peers.
We have 5 kids.
I make them train and eat what I prepare, and we allow no junk food, soda or TV.
They indeed carp, and my response is always the same.
Eat what I make, or eat NOTHING, and in extreme cases taste belt leather.
End of story.
I refuse to raise what I see too much of in American society: fat, underachieving kids who will grow up to be fat, unhappy adults.
They can hate me now to love me later or whatever. It's not a popularity contest.
As a parent, I have a job to do.
dang. i mean, giving your kids everything they want is wrong, but there has to be a balance. sure, they're healthy physically, but what about emotionally? it's so, so important to have a good relationship. "they can hate me now"? seriously? they're MISERABLE, and that's not fair to them. and really, i don't think they'll thank you for it. they'll remember you making their childhood hell, just so they won't be a little chubby. kids have to know that their parents are people they can trust, and if you're belting them over a frickin piece of broccoli... i can't even imagine how they must feel. honestly, i think that's bordering on abusive there.
i mean, my four siblings and i are incredibly well behaved, and they never have to use a belt or anything else. we do what they ask because they make sure we know WHY they ask. if my mom's having company over and asks us to help clean the house, we're happy to do it, because otherwise she'd have to do it by herself, and we'd hate to see her have to work so hard on her own, and be upset and disappointed in us. my brother is the pickiest eater in the world, but even when he hates stuff, he always ends up eating it. know whyyyy? because he knows how hard my mom worked cooking it, and he knows it hurts her feelings if he doesn't eat it, and knows how unfair it is to ask her to make something else. and yeah, sometimes they get frustrated and raise their voices, and that works. but it's not because we're scared of them, it's because we don't like to see them get upset. and then we'll apologize for being snotty, and they'll apologize for losing their temper. and yeah, maybe i am a little overweight, but i'm not obese. i'm 20 pounds overweight, and i'm the fattest of any of my siblings. just because you live in a loving home doesn't mean you're gonna get fat and spoiled. my parents don't give us everything we want. not by a longshot. our cell phones are the crappy free ones, and the only reason some of us have laptops are because we bought them with our own money. if we want something we can't have, our parents explain why we can't have it, and then we don't ask again. so not only are we disciplined and healthy, but we're also HAPPY. yes, it is possible!
He thanked me for that.
My ten year old was invited to be on the All Star baseball team; he thanked me.
My 14 year old is a top wrestler with a shelf full of 1st place and second place trophies.
Need I go on?
All 5 of my kids excel in school and exist at the top of the social food chain.
Keep making excuses, and we'll keep winning.
That's the difference.:drinker:0 -
with what we know today if your kids are fat you are a bad parent.0
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I was in an accident and almost died.
Wrong.
The PARENTS control what the kid does, and what comes into the house, and what kind of eating habits these kids will have. If they are obese, the parents should take the full blame and, to a radical extent, I think they should be charged with child abuse.
To some extent. You can't FORCE a kid to eat things. I tried to push the issue with my fifteen year old when he was five. I was going to MAKE him eat that broccoli. He ate it all right... and made himself throw up on the table. My two year old will throw things that he doesn't like on the floor and will go hungry before eating something "ucky." (This is why I keep other things around that are healthy that he will eat.)
Sure, I can keep things out, but I can't force good eating. I'm going to guess that you don't have children. Once you have your own, you realize that everything is not as black and white as you seem to think.
As I already mentioned, success is a choice - no excuses.
First, none of my kids are fat but very fit - head and shoulders above 90% of their peers.
We have 5 kids.
I make them train and eat what I prepare, and we allow no junk food, soda or TV.
They indeed carp, and my response is always the same.
Eat what I make, or eat NOTHING, and in extreme cases taste belt leather.
End of story.
I refuse to raise what I see too much of in American society: fat, underachieving kids who will grow up to be fat, unhappy adults.
They can hate me now to love me later or whatever. It's not a popularity contest.
As a parent, I have a job to do.
If you're such an ambassador for healthy living, how did you get overweight?
As of this week, I reached my weight loss goals. Have you?:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Next question?0 -
I worked as a waitress for three years, and it always made me sad to see a family where they had really young children already overweight, parents ordering so much food you couldn't see the table anymore. It was disheartening to see so many families come in over my 8 hour shift, and kids as young as 2 or 3 already going down that path. It isn't the kid's choice to be put in that position, they don't know any better. But thanks to how consumerism has gone in the last 30 years, the parents hadn't the chance to learn the skills to pass on to the kids. In that way you can't blame them, but they have to be able to look at their children and say "I don't want this for them, what can I do now?" Parenthood is difficult, but not tackling a problem makes it worse later..
But yeah. Days like that where I saw very young kids made my heart sink, and I can't help that.0 -
The echo chamber doesn't like hearing the truth. These drones are far from the notion of taking ownership of their parental responsibilities.with what we know today if your kids are fat you are a bad parent.0 -
You just proved my whole point.TL;DR
Some people are bad parents
NO, it's not that they are bad parents! Cuz their not! It's something that was formed when they we're a child and they are unsure how to change it.
I know I was raised in the south where everything is fried and has tons of butter and salt.
it's just one of those things that back then they lived like that but worked their butts off. Now days you are still eating the same but less exercise to none at all.
I am 22, I've been obese since I was a pre teen when I would sneak into the fridge while they were asleep and eat all kinds of food.
I never learned proper portion size or to cook properly until now. I have a foreman and steamer and that's what I mainly use to cook.
I have made a vow to myself that if/when I have a kid that I will not be like my family and let them get obese. I can only control in home but it will be healthy food in my house!
You parents were indeed responsible. If one of my kids started to get fat, I would just handle it.
Success is always a choice; it's just not always the easy choice which is why most people fail.
Again, parents are responsible for their kid's health.
Why is this rocket science?0 -
No!I'm going to take a wild guess here and say that you started long before me there bucko. I dont have 100+ pounds to lose, I was never that fat. I have another ten and I am done. And I know perfectly well why it is dragging its *kitten* to get there, because I am slacking off.
Another wild guess: sound like Hitler would be more of a fun father then you. Sure your kids arent fat, but *kitten* son, ever think that maybe they wanted to get home and have a relax for once? Not get forced out to exercise?
You just clearly characterized the failure mentality of parents who can't take responsibility.
To some, parenting is about being popular.
Go ahead; such kids raised by such parents will be shining our shoes.:drinker:0 -
Do you people REALLY want to make this about me?If you're such an ambassador for healthy living, how did you get overweight?
:bigsmile:
OK, here you go:
I WIN!
SUCCESS IS A CHOICE!
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did someone just call someone else "bucko"? did i just stumble into a Happy Days episode?
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I was in an accident and almost died.
Wrong.
The PARENTS control what the kid does, and what comes into the house, and what kind of eating habits these kids will have. If they are obese, the parents should take the full blame and, to a radical extent, I think they should be charged with child abuse.
To some extent. You can't FORCE a kid to eat things. I tried to push the issue with my fifteen year old when he was five. I was going to MAKE him eat that broccoli. He ate it all right... and made himself throw up on the table. My two year old will throw things that he doesn't like on the floor and will go hungry before eating something "ucky." (This is why I keep other things around that are healthy that he will eat.)
Sure, I can keep things out, but I can't force good eating. I'm going to guess that you don't have children. Once you have your own, you realize that everything is not as black and white as you seem to think.
As I already mentioned, success is a choice - no excuses.
First, none of my kids are fat but very fit - head and shoulders above 90% of their peers.
We have 5 kids.
I make them train and eat what I prepare, and we allow no junk food, soda or TV.
They indeed carp, and my response is always the same.
Eat what I make, or eat NOTHING, and in extreme cases taste belt leather.
End of story.
I refuse to raise what I see too much of in American society: fat, underachieving kids who will grow up to be fat, unhappy adults.
They can hate me now to love me later or whatever. It's not a popularity contest.
As a parent, I have a job to do.
If you're such an ambassador for healthy living, how did you get overweight?
As of this week, I reached my weight loss goals. Have you?:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Next question?
I'm going to take a wild guess here and say that you started long before me there bucko. I dont have 100+ pounds to lose, I was never that fat. I have another ten and I am done. And I know perfectly well why it is dragging its *kitten* to get there, because I am slacking off.
Another wild guess: sound like Hitler would be more of a fun father then you. Sure your kids arent fat, but *kitten* son, ever think that maybe they wanted to get home and have a relax for once? Not get forced out to exercise?
Ok. Just reading this. I am 36 and both of my parents are retired army. When my brother and I were young my parents would make them run with them when they had to get ready to take their PT test. They didn't get us up at 4 or 5am but in the evenings they would make us go out there. We thought it was fun to "race" our parents. At some point in middle school, I could beat my mother who had to run her 3 miles in less than 30 mins. The outcome neither my brother or I have ever been overweight (I'm on here for fitness and to support some rl friends), we both ran track and xcountry in high school and college. and still run now. I just ran a 1/2 marathon on Sunday. I didn't think my parents were mean. I think its all on how you present it to children. Exercising is fun. I have a 13 year old who runs on a high school team. And yes I used to make him run with me. Forcing/making/ requiring children to exercise is perfectly fine. Just like you have to force/make them do chores and other things they don't want to do. Too bad for them. They aren't adults and don't get to make the decisions in the house.0 -
Parenting is a complicated thing, and I don't feel flawless enough to point fingers. Making sure our children's bodies are well nourished is a pretty serious responsibility. I've done the best I can to teach my children to enjoy fresh foods, to love vegetables, to treat sweets and junk as sometimes foods. They're both fit and enjoy healthy foods, so I think I'm doing alright. Most people are doing the best they can, and a parent who struggles with an obese child isn't necessarily a bad parent. The important thing is to support each other, to make nutrition something that we discuss openly, and to lead by example.0
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Some parents would never want to make their little 'darlings" do anything against their will......:sad: :sad:
I was in an accident and almost died.
Wrong.
The PARENTS control what the kid does, and what comes into the house, and what kind of eating habits these kids will have. If they are obese, the parents should take the full blame and, to a radical extent, I think they should be charged with child abuse.
To some extent. You can't FORCE a kid to eat things. I tried to push the issue with my fifteen year old when he was five. I was going to MAKE him eat that broccoli. He ate it all right... and made himself throw up on the table. My two year old will throw things that he doesn't like on the floor and will go hungry before eating something "ucky." (This is why I keep other things around that are healthy that he will eat.)
Sure, I can keep things out, but I can't force good eating. I'm going to guess that you don't have children. Once you have your own, you realize that everything is not as black and white as you seem to think.
As I already mentioned, success is a choice - no excuses.
First, none of my kids are fat but very fit - head and shoulders above 90% of their peers.
We have 5 kids.
I make them train and eat what I prepare, and we allow no junk food, soda or TV.
They indeed carp, and my response is always the same.
Eat what I make, or eat NOTHING, and in extreme cases taste belt leather.
End of story.
I refuse to raise what I see too much of in American society: fat, underachieving kids who will grow up to be fat, unhappy adults.
They can hate me now to love me later or whatever. It's not a popularity contest.
As a parent, I have a job to do.
If you're such an ambassador for healthy living, how did you get overweight?
As of this week, I reached my weight loss goals. Have you?:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Next question?
I'm going to take a wild guess here and say that you started long before me there bucko. I dont have 100+ pounds to lose, I was never that fat. I have another ten and I am done. And I know perfectly well why it is dragging its *kitten* to get there, because I am slacking off.
Another wild guess: sound like Hitler would be more of a fun father then you. Sure your kids arent fat, but *kitten* son, ever think that maybe they wanted to get home and have a relax for once? Not get forced out to exercise?
Ok. Just reading this. I am 36 and both of my parents are retired army. When my brother and I were young my parents would make them run with them when they had to get ready to take their PT test. They didn't get us up at 4 or 5am but in the evenings they would make us go out there. We thought it was fun to "race" our parents. At some point in middle school, I could beat my mother who had to run her 3 miles in less than 30 mins. The outcome neither my brother or I have ever been overweight (I'm on here for fitness and to support some rl friends), we both ran track and xcountry in high school and college. and still run now. I just ran a 1/2 marathon on Sunday. I didn't think my parents were mean. I think its all on how you present it to children. Exercising is fun. I have a 13 year old who runs on a high school team. And yes I used to make him run with me. Forcing/making/ requiring children to exercise is perfectly fine. Just like you have to force/make them do chores and other things they don't want to do. Too bad for them. They aren't adults and don't get to make the decisions in the house.0 -
Oh, and we must teach our children to love nature, enjoy physical activity, and feed themselves too. I know way too many 20 somethings that spend all of their free time playing video games and have zero cooking skills. So that's important too, haha.0
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I'm going on 67. Childhood obesity today is totally appalling. However, it's easy to blame the parents. Here's what is different from When I was growing up: There are no gym periods in schools these days, not to mention gym teachers. When I went to grammar school, we had two recess periods and lunch. We were expected to play outside. I played tether ball whenever I could - there was always a line of girls waiting to play. We jumped double dutch. There were hula hoops and yoyos and paddle balls. When I got home I did NOT do two hours of homework. How crazy is it to demand two hours of young kids who really need to play. They've just spent six hours in school. Is the teacher that lazy that she/he can't get the lessons across? When I got home, I'd change and go out to join the neighborhood kids in a game of stick ball. The sewers were our bases. We ran a lot. We biked, we built forts on empty lots. I climbed trees. What I see these days is that kids play too many video games, they don't get enough exercise at school, or else they're overscheduled with swim meets, and other structured activities. We've taken the fun out of play. I can relate to fat kids too. My brother was fat all the way through grammar school, although not obese. He was teased mercilessly, since fat kids were not the norm in those days. When he got to junior high he started weight training like mad and slimmed down considerably. He's still slim at 65. My parents were on the stout side, but they were also old. I had the oldest mother in my grammar school. She was in her early fifties. Finally, growing up we were never bombarded with food ads on TV morning, noon and night. Candy and ice cream were a once a week treat. We didn't toss bottles and cans onto the street because they were worth 5 cents each. I'd return a bottle and buy a piece gum. Don't discount all those food ads. I've found myself wanting to drive to Wendy's when I see a late night ad. We also have access to food 24/7 in every store I can think of, including nearly all gas stations. And here's the really scary thing for parents of pre-teens. We are also bombarded by drug company ads 24/7 on TV. Then we wonder why our children abuse prescription drugs. We seem to operate on the slogan "there's an app (drug) for that". I was bombarded with cigarette ads on TV growing up and it did have an effect. In high school it was cool to smoke. I quit in my thirties only after I'd seen three people die within three to six months after getting lung cancer. All were smokers.0
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When I was in school, there were only 3-4 kids that I can recall being very overweight (graduated in 1998). My oldest daughter is 11 and when I go to her school, I am amazed at how many overweight children there are. We also lived in Germany for a few years and everyone out there walks, there are no elevators in buildings- only stairs, stairs, and more stairs. We would travel to the states to see family and it was very noticeable that "Americans" are heavier in general and I believe a huge chunk of that comes from activity level and the rest comes from the fast food habits.0
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I think childhood obesity is on the rise and I HATE it!!! I have always been overweight and I have tried to raise my kids to know that they should watch what they eat and unfortunately I did not do a very good job as my daughter is overweight and getting ready to have the lap band surgery. Her son who is 3 loves veggies, grapes, apples etc but he also loves his sweets and we are trying to limit them. He loves to go on bike rides and he likes to take walks with us and we always tell him that he is doing an awesome job and that it is good he is getting out and getting exercise as well as having fun.
I know that things have changed drastically since I was a child (I am 54) I remember that we did not have cell phones, computers, email, facebook etc but if we wanted to see our friends or talk to them we either rode our bikes or walked to their house. I remember playing tag, hide and seek, riding our bikes and walking uptown. I believe that we need to try to get back to these things as much as we can in this day and age.
Parents do need to get more information on childhood obesity as I as well as some of you others have seen many obese children. I want to just grab the parents and shake the daylights out of them and make them see what they are doing to their children. All we can do is to try to teach, guide and encourage our families, friends, coworkers etc to help us change the way our children eat and teach them it is ok to get out and do physical activity.0 -
No!I'm going to take a wild guess here and say that you started long before me there bucko. I dont have 100+ pounds to lose, I was never that fat. I have another ten and I am done. And I know perfectly well why it is dragging its *kitten* to get there, because I am slacking off.
Another wild guess: sound like Hitler would be more of a fun father then you. Sure your kids arent fat, but *kitten* son, ever think that maybe they wanted to get home and have a relax for once? Not get forced out to exercise?
You just clearly characterized the failure mentality of parents who can't take responsibility.
To some, parenting is about being popular.
Go ahead; such kids raised by such parents will be shining our shoes.:drinker:
You've lost a significant amount of weight, that is awesome.
Now are you saying that I am going to be a soft parent with fat kids? Yeah pretty sure I'm not, because I do have a backbone and I dont want fat kids. Simple.
You can get off your high horse now. You are wonder dad. Well done. Your certificate and medal are in the mail.0 -
did someone just call someone else "bucko"? did i just stumble into a Happy Days episode?
Hahaha it's a great show Good to bring back the olden days language every now and then 0
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