calories for muscle growth

lady_in_weighting · July 2012

Hello there MFP'rs (:

a quick question...when you do muscle exercises and weight lifting at the gym is it only the calories from protein which gets used for muscle growth?

if you body is furiously trying to grow and repair muscle after a workout will any of the calories we eat be stored as fat or as surplus if the calories are excess?

are calories from carbs used in muscle growth and repair?

thanks!

YoYo1951 · July 2012

bump, I want to hear more

geekyjock76 · July 2012

Protein is generally used to aid in the recovery process post-workout by repairing the microscopic tears induced by exercise. To keep it simple, carbs - or fats - are used as the energy source for the workout itself.

If you are at a surplus, and your goal is to increase lean muscle mass, you will evidently gain a little body fat as well. Ideally, you want to eat "clean" to sustain a favorable lean body mass-to-fat ratio (gaining 1 lbs of lean mass to 7 lbs of body fat isn't an example). Aim for wholesome minimally processed foods and avoid upping calories with junk. Basically you'd eat the same quality foods you'd do so to lose or maintain, but just in greater amounts.

Depending on your build (endomorph, ectomorph or mesomorph) you'll need varying degree of surplus. Smaller build individuals, such as myself, require more calories to gain muscle mass. Personally, I increase my TDEE by 25% to 30% when trying to gain lean muscle (2,800 calories for maintenance and 3,350 to 3,640 calories to gain depending on workouts). I also do carb-cycling since I want to appropriate calories according to how and what I train to minimize increases in body fat percentage.

lady_in_weighting · July 2012

Thanks for that! I thought that would be the case. Does your body need energy from carbs to metabolise the protein...i know im getting very complicated here! lol

Sidesteal · July 2012

Thanks for that! I thought that would be the case. Does your body need energy from carbs to metabolise the protein...i know im getting very complicated here! lol

No but in the absence of carbohydrate, your body will convert some of the protein to glucose via gluconeogenesis which, by default, means that there is less of that protein available for skeletal muscle. But, it's mostly irrelevant because in the absence of carbs, you're consuming buttloads of protein anyway.

geekyjock76 · July 2012

Not necessarily. In the absence of carbs, your body can convert other sources to glucose for that purpose. This also carries over to another energy principle called TEF (Thermic Effect of Food). Energy is required to breakdown and distribute the nutrients you intake. The energy necessary is correlated with the macros included in the meal. In other words, a bigger meal (especially with lots of fats) will need lots of energy compared to a much smaller meal.

Another interesting thing about TEF is that the value assigned at the end of the day is the same regardless of frequency and size of meals assuming the macros of the nutrients and calories are the same. Thus, your TEF value would be identical if you ate 6 meals at 400 calories compared to 4 meals at 600 calories.

P.S. I like the new photo you added

Going4Lean · July 2012

bump

lady_in_weighting · July 2012

ahh, starting to make more sense now, another question...how does our body know the difference between complex carbs and simple carbs once broken down? surely any excess from both is stored at glycogen in the body. obviously any carbs we eat in calorlie terms will be burned off through our TDEE. there must be a difference in eating excess calorie simple carbs as opposed to complex carbs? or are they both stored as fat?

p.s. thanks for the like (:

waldo56 · July 2012

Carbs seem to play a big role in muscle growth above and beyond protein alone. I personally think that there is an overfocus on protein when it comes to muscle building and a lack of focus on carbs.

Protein is a bit like vitamins in the sense that there is little benefit to having an excess. As long as you've got enough and there isn't a deficiency, there is no good reason to take in more. People disagree on what the minimum level is, however there is widespread agreement that there is no benefit to excess, and it could actually be harmful.

Carbs are the powerhouse, it is the energy source the body uses the best, all high output activity requires carb fuel. The hormone reactions in the body that tell it to grow bigger muscles are triggered most effectively with carbs (the hormone reaction is why some/many people will lose weight (not necessarily fat) most effectively by limiting carbs in addition to calories). Even if your body doesn't have high carb sensitivity when losing weight, it definitely does while gaining weight, gaining muscle mass will be near impossible on a low carb diet, even if you have a calorie excess.

waldo56 · July 2012

ahh, starting to make more sense now, another question...how does our body know the difference between complex carbs and simple carbs once broken down?

It doesn't. Alll carbs will be converted into glucose or glycogen regardless of the source.

A complex carb takes longer to break down hence there is a smaller hormonal reaction over a longer time.

This matters in a non-calorie controlled environment when you are trying to lose or maintain weight. When you trying to gain weight the tables are turned. Simple carbs for example are ideal for rapidly getting you out of a catabolic state, keeping you in an anabolic state as much as possible (such as first thing in the AM and right after working out).

there must be a difference in eating excess calorie simple carbs as opposed to complex carbs? or are they both stored as fat?

This is an oft recited myth that is just flat out wrong. The body does have a metabolic pathway to convert carbs to fat but it borders on irrelevant, it is a safety valve moreso than a regulary used function, the conditions needed to turn on the pathway on in a significant way in most people (read all but some with a severse disease) are almost ludicrous and it is doubtful that it has ever been turned on in 99%+ of the population (above and beyond a very, very tiny (statistically irreleavent) baseline that is always occuring). Carbs eaten are stored as glycogen which is NOT fat.

How much glycogen you are burning at any given moment (when resting) depends on how much glycogen you have; if you have a lot your body will burn mostly glycogen and very little fat, any fat you eat will be stored as fat. The flipside is true if you have very little glycogen, the body burns very little, instead burning mostly fat, but since you are eating more fat the effect is a wash, you gain or lose at the rate of calorie intake.

Carbs can basically assumed to never be stored as fat. They act like a fat thermostat, determinimng how much fat you are burning at any given moment, burn more fat than you are taking in an you'll lose fat mass, burn less fat than you are taking in and you'll gain fat mass.

Some light reading on the subject:
http://www.ajcn.org/content/62/5/1107S.long

mishkat · July 2012

Bump as I'm also interested on learning more on the subject.

Tammi140 · July 2012

Bump. Great information!

lady_in_weighting · July 2012

thanks waldo56 for all your information, it has been a super help! (:

QueChulaYo · July 2012

thanks for the info!!

calories for muscle growth

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