over training

dukslayer4051
dukslayer4051 Posts: 66 Member
edited 1:07AM in Introduce Yourself
good carb, bad carb......cardio vs. weight training. calorie in vs calorie out. i have heard it all. what i do understand is a pound of body fat is about 3500 calories. so why is it that with given caloric deficit, weight dont just roll off? especially for those like me who do cardio and weights. i run 3-5 hrs a week and lift 4-6 days a week. but i hit plateaus that are difficult to overcome. is it in nutrition? cuz im working at it hard. i know i spent 10 yrs getting fat, but the first 60 lbs came off pretty easy with diet change...so why is the last 40lbs so tough to loose?

Replies

  • Sharyn913
    Sharyn913 Posts: 777 Member
    Expect a lot of different answers for everything you stated. Most people tell me nutrition is 80% of the battle while exercise is only 20%. If you hit a plateau, try something new. Confuse your body. If you have been running, try a stair master. If you are lifting, try changing your weights/reps or doing a body pump class. Maybe your body is getting used to your routine.
  • I would love to know the answer to this!! I do not know why the last is the hardest to lose but I am right there with you! I can't lose the last 30lbs for the life of me!
  • GameBoiye
    GameBoiye Posts: 15 Member
    Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a direct cause of plateaus as most people's bodies are different. Many people believe that plateaus are caused by large fluctuations in water weight as you can easily go up or down by almost 10 pounds based simply on the amount of water in your body. If your body was having a slight cold you didn't notice and lost a lot of body weight, you'd think you lost those 10 pounds. The realization is that you didn't actually lose the weight but you will spend the next month gaining back those 10 pounds of water while losing weight, effectively creating your own "fake" plateaus.

    Of course that's only one possible explanation, the simple fact is to keep with your diet and it will work, don't give up.
  • Capt_Apollo
    Capt_Apollo Posts: 9,026 Member
    well, i hope your diary for the last few days is wrong. you aren't eating enough to facilitate the weight loss (i know, it sounds weird).

    if you are as active as you say you are, you probably be needing to eat somewhere about 3,000 calories.
  • angelew
    angelew Posts: 133 Member
    I read somewhere that there are so many factors affecting weight loss...age, gender, hormonal balance, activity level, genetics, metabolism, illness, etc. all factor in. For some of us, it is not calories in / calories out.
  • beth40n2
    beth40n2 Posts: 233 Member
    I hear you, I am there myself. Right now I joined the "Eat more, weigh less" group here. I am trying to reset my metabolism. I think the body just gets so used to what we are doing, what we are eating, how much exercise we are doing, it needs a change. I have upped my calories a lot and have not gained. I see you are staying low carb, can't do better than that, unless you want to slowly put some carbs back in your diet through fruit, veggies, something healthy.
  • GaidenJade
    GaidenJade Posts: 171
    I can only tell you what I have been told and what I have read. Though I am sure others will give you different information. The more fit you get, the lower your base heart rate and the harder it is to lose weight. The closer you get to your goal the more micromanaging you must do. You will hit plateaus, you will slow down in the losing, but as long as you don't get stuck in the same old routine, you should not stop losing.

    It will take time and dedication, but when you work out make sure you are not just going through the motions, and push yourself to the next level because that will make your body wake up and change, get better.

    Okay that is my two cents for what it's worth. Now comes the others. I wish you well. :flowerforyou:
  • fhsjewfro
    fhsjewfro Posts: 101 Member
    good carb, bad carb......cardio vs. weight training. calorie in vs calorie out. i have heard it all. what i do understand is a pound of body fat is about 3500 calories. so why is it that with given caloric deficit, weight dont just roll off? especially for those like me who do cardio and weights. i run 3-5 hrs a week and lift 4-6 days a week. but i hit plateaus that are difficult to overcome. is it in nutrition? cuz im working at it hard. i know i spent 10 yrs getting fat, but the first 60 lbs came off pretty easy with diet change...so why is the last 40lbs so tough to loose?

    complex carbs(good) > simple carbs(not bad, but not as good as complex)

    a nice combo of cardio & weight training is the best option. Weights first, cardio last.

    plateaus could be anything, not a good lifting routine, not using the muscles properly throughout the lift, diet could be lacking. If you are trying to lose weight it is very difficult (after n00b gains) to gain strength and lose weight at the same time. You are lifting to preserve the muscle you already have but to also aid in the fat burning process

    hope that clears up at least one of the things you asked
  • FrugalMomsRock75
    FrugalMomsRock75 Posts: 698 Member
    Would you put a gallon of gas in your car to take you 3000 miles? Of course not. By the looks of your diary, your deficit is too big. You need to eat more.

    NET your BMR daily, and you'll see changes. May take a few weeks because of your body being so mal-fueled, but I'm confident it will work.
  • kcragg
    kcragg Posts: 239 Member
    I read this in a newsletter from Burn the Fat, Tom Venuto... it may be of some help!

    Is it possible to not lose body fat because you're eating too little?

    ANSWER:

    Yes and no. This gets a little complicated so let me explain both sides.

    Part one of my answer: I say NO, because if you are in a calorie deficit you
    WILL lose weight.

    Most people have heard anecdotes of the dieter who claims to be eating
    800 calories a day or some starvation diet level of intake that is clearly in
    a deficit and yet is not losing fat. Like the mythical unicorn, such an animal
    does not exist.

    Every time you take a person like that and put them in a hospital research
    center or metabolic ward where their food can be counted, weighed, measured
    and almost literally "spoon fed" to them, a calorie deficit always produces weight loss.

    There are no exceptions, except possibly in rare diseases or mutations. Even
    then metabolic or hormonal defects or diseases merely lead to energy imbalance
    via increases in appetite, decreases in energy expenditure or changes in energy
    partitioning. So at the end of the day it's STILL calories in versus calories out.

    In other words, NO - it's NOT your thyroid (unless you've got a confirmed
    diagnosis as such...and then guess what... it's STILL calories in vs calories out,
    you're just not burning as many as someone should at your height and weight).

    One famous study that was published in the New England Journal of Medicine
    years ago proved this point rather dramatically. After studying obese people -
    selected specifically because they swore they were eating less than 1200 calories
    but could not lose weight - Steven Lichtman and his colleages at St. Luke's
    Roosevent Hospital in New York came to the following conclusion:

    "The failure of some obese subjects to lose weight while eating a diet they
    report as low in calories is due to an energy intake substantially higher than
    reported and an overestimation of physical activity, not to an abnormality
    in thermogenesis."

    That's right - the so-called "diet-resistant" subjects were eating more than they
    thought and moving less than they thought. This was probably the single best
    study ever published that debunks the "I'm in a calorie deficit but I can't lose
    weight" myth:

    Part two of my answer, YES, because:

    1) Energy intake increases.

    Eating too little causes major increases in appetite. With hunger raging out of
    control, you lose your deficit by overeating. This happens in many ways, such
    as giving in to cravings, binge eating, eating more on weekends or simply being
    inconsistent, so some days you're on your prescribed 1600 calories a day or
    whatever is your target amount, but on others you're taking in 2200, 2500,
    3000 etc and you don't realize it or remember it. The overeating days wipe
    out the deficit days.

    2) Metabolism decreases due to smaller body mass.

    Any time at all when you're losing weight, your metabolism is slowly decreasing
    due to your reduced body mass. The smaller and lighter you get, especially if
    there's a large drop in skeletal muscle mass, the fewer calories you need. So
    your calorie deficit slowly shrinks over time as your diet progresses. As a result,
    your progress slows down even though you haven't changed how much you eat.

    With starvation, you always lose weight, but eventually you lose so much
    weight/body mass that you can reach energy balance at the same caloric
    intake you used to lose weight on. You might translate that as "I went into
    starvation mode" which wouldn't be incorrect, but it would be more accurate
    to say that your calorie needs decreased.

    3) Metabolism decreases due to adaptive thermogenesis.

    Eating too little also causes a starvation response (adaptive thermogenesis) where
    metabolic rate can decrease above and beyond what can be accounted for from
    the change in body mass (#2 above). This is "starvation response" in the truest
    sense. It does exist and it is well documented. However, the latest research says
    that the vast majority of the decrease in metabolism comes from reduced body
    mass. The adaptive component of the reduced metabolic rate is fairly small,
    perhaps 10% (ie, 220 calories for an average female with a 2200 TDEE). The
    result is when you don't eat enough, your actual weight loss is less than
    predicted on paper, but weight loss doesn't stop completely.

    There is a BIG myth about starvation mode (adaptive thermogenesis) that
    implies that if you don't eat enough, your metabolism will slow down so much
    that you stop losing weight. That can't happen, it only appears that way
    because weight loss stops for other reasons. What happens is the math
    equation changes!

    Energy balance is dynamic, so your weight loss slows down and eventually stops
    over time if you fail to adjust your calories and activity levels in real time each
    week.

    I teach a system for how to adjust calories and activity weekly using a feedback
    loop method in my Burn The Fat, Feed The Muscle program (more info from
    www.BurnTheFat.com)

    So what can be done to stop this metabolic slowdown caused by low calorie
    dieting and the dreaded fat loss plateau that follows? I recommend the
    following 5 tips:

    1) Lose the pounds slowly.

    Slow and steady wins in long term fat loss and maintenance every time. Rapid
    weight loss correlates strongly with weight relapse and loss of lean body mass.
    Aim for one to two pounds per week, or no more than 1% of total body weight
    (ie, 3 lbs per week if you weigh 300 lbs).

    2) Use a higher energy flux program.

    If you are physically capable of exercise, then use weight training AND cardio
    to increase your calorie expenditure, so you can still have a calorie deficit, but
    at a higher food intake (also known as a "high energy flux" program, or as we
    like to say in Burn The Fat, "eat more, burn more.")

    3) Use a conservative calorie deficit.

    You must have a calorie deficit to lose fat, but your best bet is to keep the
    deficit small. This helps you avoid triggering the starvation response, which
    includes the increased appetite and potential to binge that comes along with
    starvation diets. I recommend a 20% deficit below your maintenance calories
    (TDEE), a 30% deficit at most for those with high body fat.

    4) Refeed.

    Increase your calories (re-feed) for a full day periodically (once a week or so if
    you are heavy, twice a week if you are already lean), to restimulate metabolism.
    On the higher calorie day, take your calories to maintenance or even 10, 15, 20%
    above maintenance and add the extra calories in the form of carbs (carb cycling).
    The leaner you get, and the longer you've been on reduced calories, the more
    important the re-feeds will be. (You can learn more about this method in ch 12
    of Burn The Fat, Feed The Muscle @ www.BurnTheFat.com)

    5) Take periodic diet breaks.

    Take 1 week off your calorie restricted diet approximately every 12 weeks or so.
    During this period, take your calories back up to maintenance, but continue to
    eat healthy, "clean" foods. Alternately, go into a muscle building phase if increasing
    lean mass is one of your goals. This will bring metabolism and regulatory
    hormones back up to normal and keep lean body mass stable.

    There is much confusion about how your metabolism, hormones and appetite
    mechanisms are affected when you're dieting, so this was really one of the
    most important questions anyone could have asked.
  • dukslayer4051
    dukslayer4051 Posts: 66 Member
    i have had some success shocking my body by diet change. i was doing bodypump but felt as if it wasnt challenging enough so i took on a new workout that i found on bodybuilding.com, i did lose 10# but then plateau again.

    im really wondering why all the plateau's?
  • dukslayer4051
    dukslayer4051 Posts: 66 Member
    diet is right, it sounds like you looked at what i eat. i am not starving myself, just eating more protein. so if i up my caloric intake, how will that help me lose weight? calorie in vs. calorie out= calorie deficit right?

    im concerned that if i do bump up my cals. in that i will eat my workout calories burned(if that makes sence)
  • fhsjewfro
    fhsjewfro Posts: 101 Member
    you are suppose to eat back some of those calories you burned from exercise

    if you burned 400 cals doing your exercise, plus whatever you burned throughout the day doing normal activities

    that could put you at 600-700 calories deficit, which is counter productive and will make you plateau and/or gain weight

    you are not educated on this subject enough to make your own decisions honestly, track your cals burned and you will see that MFP actually tells you to eat more, to make up for those extra cals burned
  • Nutrition1st
    Nutrition1st Posts: 216 Member
    Sounds like you are over training as well as not getting enough calories. Both prohibit efficient fat loss and lean muscle building. A meal replacement shake is ok to "replace a meal". A whey protein shake is not intended to replace a meal. Just add more protein to your diet. Hitting the iron 6 days a week is not giving your muscles time to recover. And since they are not getting enough calories to recover, they are in constant cannibalism (stealing protein from your own muscles to re-create the amino acids needed to feed the same muscles). Since there are very few carbs early in your day, your body will rob more protein from your muscles and convert them to glucose to replace the carbs that they are expecting. With this type of workout, you def have to eat more (often and calories balanced each meal) to burn fat.
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