Calling all petite gals and experienced weight losers...

Ambition00 · July 2012

MFP sets BMR to 1200 for everyone and yes i know this conversation is played out but it wouldn't keep coming up if we all understood this. I also use the total energy expenditure on http://www.health-calc.com/diet/energy-expenditure-advanced which has my BMR at 1412. now i don't know if having a higher BMR is a plus or not...i mean if my TDEE is 1830 seated all day and my BMR is 1412 and I cannot eat below my BMR as some have put it...then I can only create a 418 or deficit! that will take forever to lose weight.

I do like the health-calc website, however I wonder about their BMR? I'm 5"2" and 137lbs...moderately toned but need to lose 15lb. I feel like I have tried every...from letting MFP set my base calories and then adding exercise calories and eating that much...i.e. 1200 base +200 exercise = 1400 total intake per day. I keep telling myself i'm gaining weight because I am not taking in enough food. I mean I used to eat at least 1500-1600, a lot sweets , recommended amount of fiber and was 130-128 and now that I have added fiber, eating fairly lower carb, lower calories, I have crept up to 137? what the heck! the only thing I can think of is that my calories is too low...I am working out 5-6 days a week 45 minutes min 1 hour max, with cardio every one of those days, strength too 2 days a week.

So petite gals and of course other experienced weight losers chime in...what's happening here? I am hoping to get some good response here.

irish9229 · July 2012

So you are gaining weight - even on MFP??? Maybe it's muscle (is everyone saying that to you??)

I don't have any answers for you as this is my first real go at weight loss.
I've always been small and steadily gained over the course of a year.
I am 5'2" and started at 131 and wanting to drop about 15lbs.
Since starting the food logging a couple weeks ago, I am down 4lbs and my calories are set at 1200/day
I'm finding it pretty doable and am exercising everyday, whether it's a long walk or a morning at the gym. I do something every day.

I'll keep my eye on this thread to see what others can offer you.
Sorry I am of no help!

thewang · July 2012

At your weight its' not about losing weight as it is strength training. If you simply diet you will lose a lot of lean muscle mass. Just set your calorie goal to your BMR and always eat above that. You want to lose inches first and build muscle. You will lose just fat during that time and eventually the weight will also go down, but your body will be more toned and more athletic.

findingmyhappyplace · July 2012

The health calc site is bang on. I am 5'1 and 105ish. It gives me a TDEE of 2400 on a rest day and it's correct. Maybe you should have your thyroid checked, and consider doing a metabolism reset if you need to. Try eating at what health calc says for a couple of weeks and see what happens. If you gain, I would recommend a reset. If you maintain, you are good to go (try a 250-400 cal deficit per day, you're already small so you can't lose fast). If your TDEE is 1800 seated all day, then definitely do NOT eat below that if you're also working out!

Abells · July 2012

MFP didnt set your BMR to 1200 that was it's suggested calorie intake based off height and weight for you to lose 2lbs a week i'm guessing.

I originally changed mine to 1/2 a pound a week which will up it.

If you have your TDEE then eat at 20% of it which is what I do. It seems to work good. and I am eating quite a bit and I'm not a big girl. I do crossfit 2 times a week and rugby 3 days a week rest on fridays and sometimes cardio on sunday.

I don't eat back the exercise cals it inputs now. You are going to drop weight slowly which is good but you should take your measurements as you'll see the inches drop first

ttesta20 · July 2012

It's definitely true that you have to eat enough in order to lose weight, as odd as that seems! Think of your body as a car and your food as the fuel. Sometimes you get gas that isn't the best quality, but it doesn't ruin the car forever, it just makes it run less efficiently until it's worked out of the system! With that said, the best calculation I've found so far for determining calories goes like this:

Body weight x 10 = Resting Metabolic Rate (RMR) (this is the number of calories your body burns just by doing its normal processes like breathing, digesting food, etc.)

RMR x 20% = Daily Activity Burn (DAB) (this is all the stuff like walking around your office during the day, cooking dinner, etc.)

To get a pretty accurate measurement of the calories needed per day, just add RMR+DAB+Exercise Calories. So for example, I'm about 130 lbs, so

131x10 = 1310 ----> 1310 x .20 = 262 ----> 1310+262+400 (or whatever you burn that day, this is my average) = 1972 calories

I set MFP to 1500 calories and then eat back the amount I spend in exercise. The quality of your diet is also very important - I take in 1 gram of protein for each pound of my goal weight, so about 125 grams of protein per day, and most of the carbs I take in are from veggies and fruits, and occasionally whole wheat pasta or english muffins. Like you, I only do strength trainign for 2 days per week and the other 3 are cardio like kickboxing, running, or plyometrics. Best of luck with this, and feel free to friend me - I love sharing motivation with others!

mcarter99 · July 2012

There's no reason you can't eat below your BMR. You also don't have to 'eat back' exercise calories, if you're not creating a deficit greater than 1000/day by doing so.

You can't gain mass on a calorie deficit, so you're not gaining due to not eating enough.

findingmyhappyplace · July 2012

There's no reason you can't eat below your BMR.

Bull. ****.

Eating below your BMR means your vital organs quite simply will no have enough fuel to function properly. That is no laughing matter. I know, because I did it for 6 months, and now I have osteoporosis at the age of 22. I also have a damaged heart. This is because I was eating so little that my body started to destroy my heart muscle to get fuel since I was not giving it enough food. My bones stopped growing properly meaning that now they are very weak from the 6 months of growth while I was eating below my BMR. For most of that 6 month period, I was eating 1100ish calories - and my BMR was about 1250. That shows just how vital it is to not treat yourself like crap, and to be respectful of your body.

Your BMR is what you need to stay alive in a coma. Does it sound like a smart idea to eat less than that even if you lie in bed all day? No. So why the hell you would be so stupid as to recommend that anyone would do it whilst also working out I do not understand.

I really hope you are just misinformed and ignorant. Even so, you shouldn't give advice unless you actually know what you're talking about because one day someone might believe what you say, and end up very sick. Shame on you.

Ambition00 · July 2012

Sincere thank you to everyone who contributed to this discussion thus far!...I'm sure this information will be helpful others in the similar sinking ship as I am and I can make sense of everyone ones post.

I recently changed my MFP to maintenance of which I got 1620...? yeah...and then on health-calc i got 1840. health-calc is much closer; because I once owned a body bugg a while back and I recall the number being close for sitting all day. Taking that info into account, I upped my activity on MFP to reflect my usual maintenance and it gave me 1750...I think that's pretty reasonable because the next level put me at 1880 so somewhere in between these two and then I would add my exercise calories and subtract my deficit. My problem with doing this is that it's not under the proper activity lifestyle category.....when I am working i am on my feet half if not more than of my 10-12 hour day. Health-calc gives me a maintenance without exercise of 2215 for the same activity MFP will give me 1750 for...however when i am not working and seated all day MFP gives me a lower maintenance...that i have to select a higher activity level in order to obtain a more adequate reading...

mcarter99 -perhaps i'm not gaining mass,but my body is holding on to calories or retaining water due to increase cortisol which can occur with low calorie intake as the body views this as stress and releases cortisol....one or the other...you're right about not gaining mass on a calorie deficit....which means I am gaining because of the above....this is why I post these things because we can bounce ideas of each other.

i will set my weight loss goal to less and try to not eat less than my BMR (1419) and go from there. findingmyhappyplace you're probably right I will focus on using the Health-calc website number for a while and see where that gets me...are you on maintenance right now? when you where on a deficit did you worry about how much of a deficit? i.e. staying under 1000, or making sure you didn't have a net of less than your BMR?

BMR of 1200 is what MFP focuses on...For example the reason I can't lose 2lb a week is because I am smaller...however if MFP didn't set a BMR of 1200 for everyone it would allow certain people to eat below 1200 creating adequate deficit to lose 2lb per week, however since there is this universal law that women should not eat below 1200 calories, which is what they think is the BMR for women that's why MFP wont let you go below that number; that's why I mentioned that....so according to MFP the most i can lose is 1.5lb per week (net of 1200) if I set it to 1 lb it will take to up to 1250 as a baseline calorie intake or net...if I set it to 2lb/week it will still be at 1200. does this make sense? if not correct me.

RuthieCass · July 2012

MFP sets BMR to 1200 for everyone and yes i know this conversation is played out but it wouldn't keep coming up if we all understood this. I also use the total energy expenditure on http://www.health-calc.com/diet/energy-expenditure-advanced which has my BMR at 1412. now i don't know if having a higher BMR is a plus or not...i mean if my TDEE is 1830 seated all day and my BMR is 1412 and I cannot eat below my BMR as some have put it...then I can only create a 418 or deficit! that will take forever to lose weight.

I do like the health-calc website, however I wonder about their BMR? I'm 5"2" and 137lbs...moderately toned but need to lose 15lb. I feel like I have tried every...from letting MFP set my base calories and then adding exercise calories and eating that much...i.e. 1200 base +200 exercise = 1400 total intake per day. I keep telling myself i'm gaining weight because I am not taking in enough food. I mean I used to eat at least 1500-1600, a lot sweets , recommended amount of fiber and was 130-128 and now that I have added fiber, eating fairly lower carb, lower calories, I have crept up to 137? what the heck! the only thing I can think of is that my calories is too low...I am working out 5-6 days a week 45 minutes min 1 hour max, with cardio every one of those days, strength too 2 days a week.

So petite gals and of course other experienced weight losers chime in...what's happening here? I am hoping to get some good response here.

You didn't specify the period of time in which you gained weight, how long you've been dieting, etc. It's normal to retain water at different points in your cycle, retain water from exercise, excess sodium, etc. It's normal to not lose for 3 weeks and then have a "whoosh." But, assuming you gained weight in 3 weeks + of dieting, my guess is that you are probably underestimating your calories eaten. Don't do cheat days where you don't log, log every single thing that goes into your mouth, get a food scale and weight everything (even using measuring cups can be inaccurate), and don't eat out. Do this for another 3 weeks and weigh again (but not around your TOM, after a heavy exercise day, or after a lot of sodium).

Saying that you're gaining fat (or any non-water weight) on 1400 calories would mean that your TDEE (calories to maintain) is lower than 1400, despite you not being comatose and a regular exerciser. Doesn't make much sense to me. Makes more sense that you are eating more than you think and mis-estimating it, causing you to eat around your TDEE. After a period of time being more strict with logging, you still do not lose, you should see a doc and get your thyroid checked. (But even with hypothyroidism, I doubt your TDEE is below 1400).

Ambition00 · July 2012

There's no reason you can't eat below your BMR.

Bull. ****.

Eating below your BMR means your vital organs quite simply will no have enough fuel to function properly. That is no laughing matter. I know, because I did it for 6 months, and now I have osteoporosis at the age of 22. I also have a damaged heart. This is because I was eating so little that my body started to destroy my heart muscle to get fuel since I was not giving it enough food. My bones stopped growing properly meaning that now they are very weak from the 6 months of growth while I was eating below my BMR. For most of that 6 month period, I was eating 1100ish calories - and my BMR was about 1250. That shows just how vital it is to not treat yourself like crap, and to be respectful of your body.

Your BMR is what you need to stay alive in a coma. Does it sound like a smart idea to eat less than that even if you lie in bed all day? No. So why the hell you would be so stupid as to recommend that anyone would do it whilst also working out I do not understand.

I really hope you are just misinformed and ignorant. Even so, you shouldn't give advice unless you actually know what you're talking about because one day someone might believe what you say, and end up very sick. Shame on you.

Oh man that's scary...what tests did you have to diagnose the osteoporosis? dexa scan? and what type of heart damage did you suffer? what are the symptoms or diagnosis? Are they reversible? i mean can you eventually strengthen the heart muscle with proper nutrition and exercise? I know strength training helps with bone density so is that helping you improve? i feel like i have treated my body poorly with eating really low calories...I mean this is an improvement but I am willing to continue down the right path by learning! so thank you for sharing.

mcarter99 · July 2012

MFP doesn't think anyone's BMR is 1200. It uses 1200 because that is a common calorie floor for dieters. It has nothing to do with BMR.

Ask your doctor, ask ANY doctor... there is no reason you can't eat below your BMR. That's why MFP assigns people intakes below their BMR. BMR has nothing to do with today's intake. We all have stored 'fuel' in the form of body fat. Using that is how you lose weight.

Your body might be retaining water but 'storing calories' means 'adding body fat', which is adding mass.

Ambition00 · July 2012

Thank you for your input! I do want to clarify a few things that based on the way I stated it may be creating confusion. My TDEE (total daily energy expenditure) is 1840 on a non workout seated all day. My BMR (basal metabolic rate) is 1410 (supposedly this is the amount of calories my body would burn if i sleeping all day). I don't have hypothyroidism as my recent office visit my doctor was very impressed with all my thyroid hormone levels...in fact BMR of 1410 is fairly high as some may have a 1250 BMR....it is possible to not necessarily gain weight but not lose weight AND retain water if I am not eating enough calories, this is based on low calorie intake = body holds on to food intake because it is analyzing when it will get adequate calorie intake and increase in cortisol output due to low calorie intake body analyze as a stressor. This I know....I just wanted to hear it and discuss it with someone.... so what I will do is increase my calories and go from there.

Trechechus · July 2012

Are you drinking enough water? Are you eating a lot of sodium? Perhaps you are retaining water.

Hendrix7 · July 2012

but need to lose 15lb

with such a small amount to lose you should be in a small/moderate calorie deficit.

A 300/400 calorie deficit for you is more than enough.

Yes you will lose slower than someone who has say, 150lbs to lose. But that's life.

lporter229 · July 2012

Sometimes it takes a lot of trial and error to figure out where you need to be, but have faith in this: If you stay committed, you will lose weight. Although there are no "magic" foods, you have to eat the right foods to not exceed your calorie requirements and not feel hungry all of the time too.Try not to get too hung up in the numbers. I think you may get a lot more specific advice if your diary was open to the public.

findingmyhappyplace · July 2012

My TDEE (total daily energy expenditure) is 1840 on a non workout seated all day. My BMR (basal metabolic rate) is 1410 (supposedly this is the amount of calories my body would burn if i sleeping all day). .

So it's very simple. Never, ever, EVER should you NET below 1410. Personally I would do the following:

Set you MFP cals to 1840.
Log your exercise on top of that using a HRM to record your burn accurately.
Aim to have 250 calories remaining at the end of each day.

That way you will lose 1/2 lb per week, if your metabolism is working well. You can also control your deficit easily, because you are set up to maintain so any green remaining calories are your deficit. With such a small amount to lose, and a high BMR, this seems the easiest way to do things.

mcarter99 · July 2012

low calorie intake = body holds on to food intake because it is analyzing when it will get adequate calorie intake and increase in cortisol output due to low calorie intake body analyze as a stressor. This I know....I just wanted to hear it and discuss it with someone.... so what I will do is increase my calories and go from there.

I would check that with your doctor. "Hold on to food" means adding body mass. Yes, your body will become less active and find other means to decrease its TDEE in times of famine. Research suggests that occurs at half or less of your TDEE. So for you 900 calories or less.

But there's nothing wrong with increasing your calorie levels, either, if that's your choice. For the vast majority of us, it is just math, though. 3500 calories = 1 lb. 95% of people think their metabolism is slow or damaged, when it's not.

Good luck!

Ambition00 · July 2012

My TDEE (total daily energy expenditure) is 1840 on a non workout seated all day. My BMR (basal metabolic rate) is 1410 (supposedly this is the amount of calories my body would burn if i sleeping all day). .

So it's very simple. Never, ever, EVER should you NET below 1410. Personally I would do the following:

Set you MFP cals to 1840.
Log your exercise on top of that using a HRM to record your burn accurately.
Aim to have 250 calories remaining at the end of each day.

That way you will lose 1/2 lb per week, if your metabolism is working well. You can also control your deficit easily, because you are set up to maintain so any green remaining calories are your deficit. With such a small amount to lose, and a high BMR, this seems the easiest way to do things.

Very straight forward...thank you. I was thinking I will try this and I will try to report back on this post in a few weeks. PS are you using the advance calc on the health-calc website or the classic? i say this because i have used both and the classic on a work day clocks me at 2600 (which seems to be a bit much...but i am standing all day)...on a non work non workout day it gives me 2044...so I'm just curious which calc you're using.

findingmyhappyplace · July 2012

My TDEE (total daily energy expenditure) is 1840 on a non workout seated all day. My BMR (basal metabolic rate) is 1410 (supposedly this is the amount of calories my body would burn if i sleeping all day). .

So it's very simple. Never, ever, EVER should you NET below 1410. Personally I would do the following:

Set you MFP cals to 1840.
Log your exercise on top of that using a HRM to record your burn accurately.
Aim to have 250 calories remaining at the end of each day.

That way you will lose 1/2 lb per week, if your metabolism is working well. You can also control your deficit easily, because you are set up to maintain so any green remaining calories are your deficit. With such a small amount to lose, and a high BMR, this seems the easiest way to do things.

Very straight forward...thank you. I was thinking I will try this and I will try to report back on this post in a few weeks. PS are you using the advance calc on the health-calc website or the classic? i say this because i have used both and the classic on a work day clocks me at 2600 (which seems to be a bit much...but i am standing all day)...on a non work non workout day it gives me 2044...so I'm just curious which calc you're using.

Advanced. Personally I have a strange lifestyle as a violinist so most calculators are off for me, since they don't account for the calories I burn through violin practice! For you, I would say use the advanced, get your TDEE for a rest day on that (include things like cooking, standing, walking, whatever you do on an average day) and log anything extra like workouts or excessive additional activity on top.

megsalla80 · July 2012

I've read of these posts and they are very intersting... i have to say that I am terrified of upping my calories. I feel I gain weight eating 1300 calories. I am so scared to up them even more... whats a girl to do?

Ambition00 · July 2012

Advanced. Personally I have a strange lifestyle as a violinist so most calculators are off for me, since they don't account for the calories I burn through violin practice! For you, I would say use the advanced, get your TDEE for a rest day on that (include things like cooking, standing, walking, whatever you do on an average day) and log anything extra like workouts or excessive additional activity on top.

Awesome thanks for this. Really helpful. Do you train everyday and how do you split your cardio/strength? i love to train but i feel like when i get excited about doing all that i forget to put the fuel in...so I am trying to focus primarily on the fuel right now and then up the fitness. but I still workout just not as much or what I would like to be doing.

Calling all petite gals and experienced weight losers...

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