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Artificial sweeteners don't help people lose weight. New Study?

TheWJordinWJordinTheWJordinWJordin Posts: 497Member Member Posts: 497Member Member
Someone paid for this study?
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/07/17/537262142/artificial-sweeteners-dont-help-people-lose-weight-review-finds
I'll drink a diet drink from time to time. I never thought it would make me skinny. Did you? I hope these are not our tax dollars at work.
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Replies

  • OliveGirl128OliveGirl128 Posts: 280Member Member Posts: 280Member Member
    From the link-
    And observational data suggest that the people who regularly consume these sweeteners are also more likely to develop future health problems – though those studies can't say those problems are caused by the sweeteners.

    Not impressed :p
    edited July 17
  • ShawshankcanShawshankcan Posts: 843Member Member Posts: 843Member Member
    Its a mentality some people have, whether they realize it or not. They believe that when drinking a diet drink, they essentially have more room for calories in their food and end up eating more.

    If I eat fast food, I will get a diet drink, not because I think it is a healthy choice, but to save 600 calories even though I already over indulged.
  • blueeyeteablueeyetea Posts: 44Member Member Posts: 44Member Member
    [quote= I never thought it would make me skinny. [/quote]

    In all fairness, what would be the point of using artificial sweetener, if you didn't care about the calories? Might as well stay with the real thing, no?
  • Noel_57Noel_57 Posts: 4,336Member Member Posts: 4,336Member Member
    Just remember that none of these studies say artificial sweeteners are directly responsible for weight gain. I mean, how can something with zero calories make you fat? These studies all suggest that artificial sweeteners somehow make you hungrier, and that this accounts for the weight gain. Not that this is true for everyone.
  • ShawshankcanShawshankcan Posts: 843Member Member Posts: 843Member Member
    Noel_57 wrote: »
    Just remember that none of these studies say artificial sweeteners are directly responsible for weight gain. I mean, how can something with zero calories make you fat? These studies all suggest that artificial sweeteners somehow make you hungrier, and that this accounts for the weight gain. Not that this is true for everyone.

    Pretty sure that was debunked.
  • MomeproMomepro Posts: 352Member, Premium Member Posts: 352Member, Premium Member
    blueeyetea wrote: »
    [quote= I never thought it would make me skinny.

    In all fairness, what would be the point of using artificial sweetener, if you didn't care about the calories? Might as well stay with the real thing, no?

    To save the calories to use elsewhere.

    Calorie allowances are a budget. If I can save calories by using an artificial sweetener for my morning tea so I have them to spend on actual food, it would be foolish not to do that. It's wise budgeting.[/quote]

    It can be useful for diabetics to control the amount of sugar in thier system, even if they aren't actually worried about counting calories.
  • OliveGirl128OliveGirl128 Posts: 280Member Member Posts: 280Member Member
    blueeyetea wrote: »
    In all fairness, what would be the point of using artificial sweetener, if you didn't care about the calories? Might as well stay with the real thing, no?

    First thing I think of is diabetics. My husband's grandma has been a pre-diabetic for something like 20 years and she uses artificial sweeteners in all her baking and then in her tea and canned goods like jams.
    edited July 17
  • MomeproMomepro Posts: 352Member, Premium Member Posts: 352Member, Premium Member
    Its a mentality some people have, whether they realize it or not. They believe that when drinking a diet drink, they essentially have more room for calories in their food and end up eating more.

    If I eat fast food, I will get a diet drink, not because I think it is a healthy choice, but to save 600 calories even though I already over indulged.

    And often people think this is your reasoning when it is not. (Not saying you believe this, just pointing out common nuisance lol) This results in those idiots who make fun of someone for ordering a diet soda with thier "supersized" meal. I didn't order the diet because I'm under the impression that it makes my lunch ok, I ordered the diet because I actually like the taste better!
  • ccrdragonccrdragon Posts: 982Member Member Posts: 982Member Member
    I have to wonder if how much artificial sweetener people use could come into play. When I go out with my artificial sweetener using family I use I packet of sugar or none at all in coffee or tea. The rest of the table is dumping four or more sweetener packets in every glass. All those "zero" calories have to add up at some point. I also wonder if they can dull your taste for sweet as well. A relative once made me a bowl of strawberries and poured splenda on them. I couldn't eat them. It was unbearably sweet. Sweeter than candy and I love candy.

    If you are using the packets, then yes, there are some trace carbs (dextrose, et al.) used as fillers and they do add up, but you would have to be eating loads of packets each day for it to have a significant effect on your overall calorie intake. The difference between this and the diet drinks is that they do not have the fillers, so there would be no added carbs to 'add up'.
  • Christine_72Christine_72 Posts: 14,999Member Member Posts: 14,999Member Member
    Noel_57 wrote: »
    Just remember that none of these studies say artificial sweeteners are directly responsible for weight gain. I mean, how can something with zero calories make you fat? These studies all suggest that artificial sweeteners somehow make you hungrier, and that this accounts for the weight gain. Not that this is true for everyone.

    Pretty sure that was debunked.

    I dont think peoples very individual experiences with artificial sweeteners can be debunked... We are not all perfect robots who react exactly the same way to every single substance on the planet.
  • JustRobby1JustRobby1 Posts: 212Member Member Posts: 212Member Member
    Noel_57 wrote: »
    Just remember that none of these studies say artificial sweeteners are directly responsible for weight gain. I mean, how can something with zero calories make you fat? These studies all suggest that artificial sweeteners somehow make you hungrier, and that this accounts for the weight gain. Not that this is true for everyone.

    Pretty sure that was debunked.

    I dont think peoples very individual experiences with artificial sweeteners can be debunked... We are not all perfect robots who react exactly the same way to every single substance on the planet.

    That is true I suppose, as far as it goes, you can't "debunk" someone's purely anecdotal claim. Then again, purely anecdotal claims are not science either.
  • gothchiqgothchiq Posts: 3,933Member Member Posts: 3,933Member Member
    I use diet sodas for the sake of variety. I can't drink just water and coffee.
  • jennybearlvjennybearlv Posts: 1,199Member Member Posts: 1,199Member Member
    ccrdragon wrote: »
    I have to wonder if how much artificial sweetener people use could come into play. When I go out with my artificial sweetener using family I use I packet of sugar or none at all in coffee or tea. The rest of the table is dumping four or more sweetener packets in every glass. All those "zero" calories have to add up at some point. I also wonder if they can dull your taste for sweet as well. A relative once made me a bowl of strawberries and poured splenda on them. I couldn't eat them. It was unbearably sweet. Sweeter than candy and I love candy.

    If you are using the packets, then yes, there are some trace carbs (dextrose, et al.) used as fillers and they do add up, but you would have to be eating loads of packets each day for it to have a significant effect on your overall calorie intake. The difference between this and the diet drinks is that they do not have the fillers, so there would be no added carbs to 'add up'.

    Yeah, I looked it up. Even though my family appears to be going crazy with those packets the highest calorie count I could find was 8.75 calories per 100g. I'm guessing their weight problems are probably more about applying those quantities to all the other "healthy" foods too.
  • NorthCascadesNorthCascades Posts: 5,423Member Member Posts: 5,423Member Member
    ccrdragon wrote: »
    I have to wonder if how much artificial sweetener people use could come into play. When I go out with my artificial sweetener using family I use I packet of sugar or none at all in coffee or tea. The rest of the table is dumping four or more sweetener packets in every glass. All those "zero" calories have to add up at some point. I also wonder if they can dull your taste for sweet as well. A relative once made me a bowl of strawberries and poured splenda on them. I couldn't eat them. It was unbearably sweet. Sweeter than candy and I love candy.

    If you are using the packets, then yes, there are some trace carbs (dextrose, et al.) used as fillers and they do add up, but you would have to be eating loads of packets each day for it to have a significant effect on your overall calorie intake. The difference between this and the diet drinks is that they do not have the fillers, so there would be no added carbs to 'add up'.

    Yeah, I looked it up. Even though my family appears to be going crazy with those packets the highest calorie count I could find was 8.75 calories per 100g. I'm guessing their weight problems are probably more about applying those quantities to all the other "healthy" foods too.

    This would all be so much easier if it was just one food making people fat. Everybody could stop eating that one thing, and be set.
  • OliveGirl128OliveGirl128 Posts: 280Member Member Posts: 280Member Member
    I have to wonder if how much artificial sweetener people use could come into play. When I go out with my artificial sweetener using family I use I packet of sugar or none at all in coffee or tea. The rest of the table is dumping four or more sweetener packets in every glass. All those "zero" calories have to add up at some point. I also wonder if they can dull your taste for sweet as well. A relative once made me a bowl of strawberries and poured splenda on them. I couldn't eat them. It was unbearably sweet. Sweeter than candy and I love candy.

    I use splenda in my coffee and I use 1/2 pkt per large cup. The thought of using 4 pkts makes my teeth hurt oiy! Artificial sweetener is so much sweeter than regular sugar, I can't imagine using a lot of it at once.
    edited July 17
  • JustRobby1JustRobby1 Posts: 212Member Member Posts: 212Member Member
    Noel_57 wrote: »
    Just remember that none of these studies say artificial sweeteners are directly responsible for weight gain. I mean, how can something with zero calories make you fat? These studies all suggest that artificial sweeteners somehow make you hungrier, and that this accounts for the weight gain. Not that this is true for everyone.

    Pretty sure that was debunked.

    I dont think peoples very individual experiences with artificial sweeteners can be debunked... We are not all perfect robots who react exactly the same way to every single substance on the planet.

    That is true I suppose, as far as it goes, you can't "debunk" someone's purely anecdotal claim. Then again, purely anecdotal claims are not science either.

    Unless they offer themselves up to science to be studied, anecdotal is all we've got.

    Just say I started feeling sickly, bloated, headachy and was experiencing intense cravings all of a sudden. Perhaps i just introduced diet soda into my diet, so this would be the obvious place to start. So i quit drinking the soda and all of those side effects disappeared, it would be my anecdotal claim that the diet soda was causing these problems.

    You offering yourself up for study in the above scenario would prove absolutely nothing since virtually nothing scientifically significant can be inferred from a single case unless you happen to be patient zero in some newly discovered zoonotic infectious disease.

    Anecdotes are fine of course. They only become problematic when people attempt to make huge generalizations from them which can not be validated. And let's face a significant reality shall we? Can you name another industry besides fitness and nutrition that has more completely unsubstantiated nonsense in it? I can't think of one.
    edited July 18
  • stevencloserstevencloser Posts: 7,629Member Member Posts: 7,629Member Member
    Noel_57 wrote: »
    Just remember that none of these studies say artificial sweeteners are directly responsible for weight gain. I mean, how can something with zero calories make you fat? These studies all suggest that artificial sweeteners somehow make you hungrier, and that this accounts for the weight gain. Not that this is true for everyone.

    Pretty sure that was debunked.

    I dont think peoples very individual experiences with artificial sweeteners can be debunked... We are not all perfect robots who react exactly the same way to every single substance on the planet.

    That is true I suppose, as far as it goes, you can't "debunk" someone's purely anecdotal claim. Then again, purely anecdotal claims are not science either.

    Unless they offer themselves up to science to be studied, anecdotal is all we've got.

    Just say I started feeling sickly, bloated, headachy and was experiencing intense cravings all of a sudden. Perhaps i just introduced diet soda into my diet, so this would be the obvious place to start. So i quit drinking the soda and all of those side effects disappeared, it would be my anecdotal claim that the diet soda was causing these problems.

    People HAVE offered themselves to science to be studied.
    They found that people who claimed to be sensitive to aspartame got reactions just as much from the placebo.
    That's the thing with anecdotal reports, there's a ton of confounding factors and you attributing it to one specific thing doesn't make it the culprit.
    edited July 18
  • JustRobby1JustRobby1 Posts: 212Member Member Posts: 212Member Member
    Noel_57 wrote: »
    Just remember that none of these studies say artificial sweeteners are directly responsible for weight gain. I mean, how can something with zero calories make you fat? These studies all suggest that artificial sweeteners somehow make you hungrier, and that this accounts for the weight gain. Not that this is true for everyone.

    Pretty sure that was debunked.

    I dont think peoples very individual experiences with artificial sweeteners can be debunked... We are not all perfect robots who react exactly the same way to every single substance on the planet.

    That is true I suppose, as far as it goes, you can't "debunk" someone's purely anecdotal claim. Then again, purely anecdotal claims are not science either.

    Unless they offer themselves up to science to be studied, anecdotal is all we've got.

    Just say I started feeling sickly, bloated, headachy and was experiencing intense cravings all of a sudden. Perhaps i just introduced diet soda into my diet, so this would be the obvious place to start. So i quit drinking the soda and all of those side effects disappeared, it would be my anecdotal claim that the diet soda was causing these problems.

    People HAVE offered themselves to science to be studied.
    They found that people who claimed to be sensitive to aspartame got reactions just as much from the placebo.
    That's the thing with anecdotal reports, there's a ton of confounding factors and you attributing it to one specific thing doesn't make it the culprit.

    Steven brings up an important point here, as this type of phenomenon is exceedingly common with these types of clinical trials. Enter the Nocebo effect, or reverse placebo effect. It was also observed In one of the largest and most prominent studies ever conducted on "Gluten sensitivity". To make a long story short, people who did not ingest anything containing gluten, but thought they were, STILL reported symptoms. This despite of the fact that there was no biological mechanism of action for their claims
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jgh.13705/full

    So are these types of people just "liars"? Perhaps, though in their head they may well actually believe that something is wrong with them. Psychology is not really my area of expertise. However, what I do know is that in the absence of a measurable and quantifiable biological reality which can be directly observed, a researcher must rely on the anecdotal, as was mentioned previously. Obviously, the resultant research is worthless if people are not being candid with you.

    This is important to keep in mind with these types of studies.
    edited July 18
  • kalamarikmkalamarikm Posts: 57Member Member Posts: 57Member Member
    I say, if you're sitting there craving sugar, it's better to choose the diet soda than the slice of cake.
  • nevadavis1nevadavis1 Posts: 296Member Member Posts: 296Member Member
    A relative once made me a bowl of strawberries and poured splenda on them. I couldn't eat them. It was unbearably sweet. Sweeter than candy and I love candy.

    This--my mother eats fruit salad for breakfast but adds so much stevia that it's sickeningly sweet (plus that aftertaste!) for me. I just like fruit, I don't need to sweeten it. Then she said "maybe you don't like stevia because your taste buds are used to so much sugar." Sigh. I'm not saying I don't like desserts, but that fruit salad was just tooooo much. Even before I went on this weight loss program I'd scrape most of the frosting off of a cupcake for example, because the sugar was a bit much for me, so I might be a weirdo... But I like to taste my food not get a toothache from the sweet-rush.

    Also, I don't know if this applies to artificial sweeteners, but I know they studied it with fast food salads, and they found that if people *think* they're making a healthy choice, then they tend to indulge in something more caloric later (these were people who weren't counting calories obviously), eg they order the salad, but are more likely to get dessert, or eat a larger meal later.
  • estherdragonbatestherdragonbat Posts: 1,555Member Member Posts: 1,555Member Member
    nevadavis1 wrote: »
    A relative once made me a bowl of strawberries and poured splenda on them. I couldn't eat them. It was unbearably sweet. Sweeter than candy and I love candy.



    Also, I don't know if this applies to artificial sweeteners, but I know they studied it with fast food salads, and they found that if people *think* they're making a healthy choice, then they tend to indulge in something more caloric later (these were people who weren't counting calories obviously), eg they order the salad, but are more likely to get dessert, or eat a larger meal later.

    Same mentality as, "I just walked ten blocks instead of taking the bus. I totally earned a large fries." (Note: depending on the length of the blocks, the rate of speed of the walk, the fitness of the individual, and the size of the deficit the individual is trying to maintain—if any—this statement could be true. However, in practice, it seldom is.)
  • The_EnginerdThe_Enginerd Posts: 3,756Member Member Posts: 3,756Member Member
    Noel_57 wrote: »
    Just remember that none of these studies say artificial sweeteners are directly responsible for weight gain. I mean, how can something with zero calories make you fat? These studies all suggest that artificial sweeteners somehow make you hungrier, and that this accounts for the weight gain. Not that this is true for everyone.

    Pretty sure that was debunked.

    I dont think peoples very individual experiences with artificial sweeteners can be debunked... We are not all perfect robots who react exactly the same way to every single substance on the planet.

    That is true I suppose, as far as it goes, you can't "debunk" someone's purely anecdotal claim. Then again, purely anecdotal claims are not science either.

    Unless they offer themselves up to science to be studied, anecdotal is all we've got.

    Just say I started feeling sickly, bloated, headachy and was experiencing intense cravings all of a sudden. Perhaps i just introduced diet soda into my diet, so this would be the obvious place to start. So i quit drinking the soda and all of those side effects disappeared, it would be my anecdotal claim that the diet soda was causing these problems.

    People HAVE offered themselves to science to be studied.
    They found that people who claimed to be sensitive to aspartame got reactions just as much from the placebo.
    That's the thing with anecdotal reports, there's a ton of confounding factors and you attributing it to one specific thing doesn't make it the culprit.

    Steven brings up an important point here, as this type of phenomenon is exceedingly common with these types of clinical trials. Enter the Nocebo effect, or reverse placebo effect. It was also observed In one of the largest and most prominent studies ever conducted on "Gluten sensitivity". To make a long story short, people who did not ingest anything containing gluten, but thought they were, STILL reported symptoms. This despite of the fact that there was no biological mechanism of action for their claims
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jgh.13705/full

    So are these types of people just "liars"? Perhaps, though in their head they may well actually believe that something is wrong with them. Psychology is not really my area of expertise. However, what I do know is that in the absence of a measurable and quantifiable biological reality which can be directly observed, a researcher must rely on the anecdotal, as was mentioned previously. Obviously, the resultant research is worthless if people are not being candid with you.

    This is important to keep in mind with these types of studies.

    The placebo effect is seen even when people are informed they are taking a placebo.

    http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/placebo-can-work-even-know-placebo-201607079926
  • grinning_chickgrinning_chick Posts: 400Member Member Posts: 400Member Member
    The placebo effect is seen even when people are informed they are taking a placebo.

    http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/placebo-can-work-even-know-placebo-201607079926

    Right off the bat what I noticed in the linked commentary is the huge assumption participants not only knew, but fully comprehended, what a placebo is when told they were being given one. Never assume a layperson understands the same as you do (as an educated scientist) what the medical terminology means. One of the first things I learned post-grad.
  • estherdragonbatestherdragonbat Posts: 1,555Member Member Posts: 1,555Member Member
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