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Artificial sweeteners don't help people lose weight. New Study?
Old_Cat_Lady
Posts: 1,193 Member
Someone paid for this study?
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/07/17/537262142/artificial-sweeteners-dont-help-people-lose-weight-review-finds
I'll drink a diet drink from time to time. I never thought it would make me skinny. Did you? I hope these are not our tax dollars at work.
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/07/17/537262142/artificial-sweeteners-dont-help-people-lose-weight-review-finds
I'll drink a diet drink from time to time. I never thought it would make me skinny. Did you? I hope these are not our tax dollars at work.
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Replies
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From the link-
And observational data suggest that the people who regularly consume these sweeteners are also more likely to develop future health problems – though those studies can't say those problems are caused by the sweeteners.
Not impressed
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Its a mentality some people have, whether they realize it or not. They believe that when drinking a diet drink, they essentially have more room for calories in their food and end up eating more.
If I eat fast food, I will get a diet drink, not because I think it is a healthy choice, but to save 600 calories even though I already over indulged.4 -
OliveGirl128 wrote: »From the link-
And observational data suggest that the people who regularly consume these sweeteners are also more likely to develop future health problems – though those studies can't say those problems are caused by the sweeteners.
Not impressed
Yeah, and the paper itself also makes no such claim (http://www.cmaj.ca/content/189/28/E929) only points out what it admits is a weak correlation. NPR takes a far more embellished approach in it's article. It's roughly akin to saying something along the lines of "people who wear pinstripe suits are at higher risk of developing heart disease". While a meta-analysis might be able to point this out from a statistical standpoint, it's of extremely limited value because of it's ambiguity and inability to account for about a million other significant variables. Such is the case with this study.8 -
[quote= I never thought it would make me skinny. [/quote]
In all fairness, what would be the point of using artificial sweetener, if you didn't care about the calories? Might as well stay with the real thing, no?1 -
blueeyetea wrote: »[quote= I never thought it would make me skinny.
In all fairness, what would be the point of using artificial sweetener, if you didn't care about the calories? Might as well stay with the real thing, no? [/quote]
To save the calories to use elsewhere.
Calorie allowances are a budget. If I can save calories by using an artificial sweetener for my morning tea so I have them to spend on actual food, it would be foolish not to do that. It's wise budgeting.15 -
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Just remember that none of these studies say artificial sweeteners are directly responsible for weight gain. I mean, how can something with zero calories make you fat? These studies all suggest that artificial sweeteners somehow make you hungrier, and that this accounts for the weight gain. Not that this is true for everyone.
Pretty sure that was debunked.3 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »blueeyetea wrote: »[quote= I never thought it would make me skinny.
In all fairness, what would be the point of using artificial sweetener, if you didn't care about the calories? Might as well stay with the real thing, no?
To save the calories to use elsewhere.
Calorie allowances are a budget. If I can save calories by using an artificial sweetener for my morning tea so I have them to spend on actual food, it would be foolish not to do that. It's wise budgeting.[/quote]
It can be useful for diabetics to control the amount of sugar in thier system, even if they aren't actually worried about counting calories.2 -
blueeyetea wrote: »In all fairness, what would be the point of using artificial sweetener, if you didn't care about the calories? Might as well stay with the real thing, no?
First thing I think of is diabetics. My husband's grandma has been a pre-diabetic for something like 20 years and she uses artificial sweeteners in all her baking and then in her tea and canned goods like jams.3 -
Shawshankcan wrote: »Its a mentality some people have, whether they realize it or not. They believe that when drinking a diet drink, they essentially have more room for calories in their food and end up eating more.
If I eat fast food, I will get a diet drink, not because I think it is a healthy choice, but to save 600 calories even though I already over indulged.
And often people think this is your reasoning when it is not. (Not saying you believe this, just pointing out common nuisance lol) This results in those idiots who make fun of someone for ordering a diet soda with thier "supersized" meal. I didn't order the diet because I'm under the impression that it makes my lunch ok, I ordered the diet because I actually like the taste better!5 -
I have to wonder if how much artificial sweetener people use could come into play. When I go out with my artificial sweetener using family I use I packet of sugar or none at all in coffee or tea. The rest of the table is dumping four or more sweetener packets in every glass. All those "zero" calories have to add up at some point. I also wonder if they can dull your taste for sweet as well. A relative once made me a bowl of strawberries and poured splenda on them. I couldn't eat them. It was unbearably sweet. Sweeter than candy and I love candy.6
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jennybearlv wrote: »I have to wonder if how much artificial sweetener people use could come into play. When I go out with my artificial sweetener using family I use I packet of sugar or none at all in coffee or tea. The rest of the table is dumping four or more sweetener packets in every glass. All those "zero" calories have to add up at some point. I also wonder if they can dull your taste for sweet as well. A relative once made me a bowl of strawberries and poured splenda on them. I couldn't eat them. It was unbearably sweet. Sweeter than candy and I love candy.
If you are using the packets, then yes, there are some trace carbs (dextrose, et al.) used as fillers and they do add up, but you would have to be eating loads of packets each day for it to have a significant effect on your overall calorie intake. The difference between this and the diet drinks is that they do not have the fillers, so there would be no added carbs to 'add up'.0 -
Shawshankcan wrote: »Just remember that none of these studies say artificial sweeteners are directly responsible for weight gain. I mean, how can something with zero calories make you fat? These studies all suggest that artificial sweeteners somehow make you hungrier, and that this accounts for the weight gain. Not that this is true for everyone.
Pretty sure that was debunked.
I dont think peoples very individual experiences with artificial sweeteners can be debunked... We are not all perfect robots who react exactly the same way to every single substance on the planet.3 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Shawshankcan wrote: »Just remember that none of these studies say artificial sweeteners are directly responsible for weight gain. I mean, how can something with zero calories make you fat? These studies all suggest that artificial sweeteners somehow make you hungrier, and that this accounts for the weight gain. Not that this is true for everyone.
Pretty sure that was debunked.
I dont think peoples very individual experiences with artificial sweeteners can be debunked... We are not all perfect robots who react exactly the same way to every single substance on the planet.
That is true I suppose, as far as it goes, you can't "debunk" someone's purely anecdotal claim. Then again, purely anecdotal claims are not science either.3 -
I use diet sodas for the sake of variety. I can't drink just water and coffee.2
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Eating LESS helps people lose weight. An artificial sweetener just saves people calories. But doesn't STOP THEM from eating more calories than they need. That's an accountability thing.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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supaflyrobby1 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Shawshankcan wrote: »Just remember that none of these studies say artificial sweeteners are directly responsible for weight gain. I mean, how can something with zero calories make you fat? These studies all suggest that artificial sweeteners somehow make you hungrier, and that this accounts for the weight gain. Not that this is true for everyone.
Pretty sure that was debunked.
I dont think peoples very individual experiences with artificial sweeteners can be debunked... We are not all perfect robots who react exactly the same way to every single substance on the planet.
That is true I suppose, as far as it goes, you can't "debunk" someone's purely anecdotal claim. Then again, purely anecdotal claims are not science either.
Unless they offer themselves up to science to be studied, anecdotal is all we've got.
Just say I started feeling sickly, bloated, headachy and was experiencing intense cravings all of a sudden. Perhaps i just introduced diet soda into my diet, so this would be the obvious place to start. So i quit drinking the soda and all of those side effects disappeared, it would be my anecdotal claim that the diet soda was causing these problems.6 -
jennybearlv wrote: »I have to wonder if how much artificial sweetener people use could come into play. When I go out with my artificial sweetener using family I use I packet of sugar or none at all in coffee or tea. The rest of the table is dumping four or more sweetener packets in every glass. All those "zero" calories have to add up at some point. I also wonder if they can dull your taste for sweet as well. A relative once made me a bowl of strawberries and poured splenda on them. I couldn't eat them. It was unbearably sweet. Sweeter than candy and I love candy.
If you are using the packets, then yes, there are some trace carbs (dextrose, et al.) used as fillers and they do add up, but you would have to be eating loads of packets each day for it to have a significant effect on your overall calorie intake. The difference between this and the diet drinks is that they do not have the fillers, so there would be no added carbs to 'add up'.
Yeah, I looked it up. Even though my family appears to be going crazy with those packets the highest calorie count I could find was 8.75 calories per 100g. I'm guessing their weight problems are probably more about applying those quantities to all the other "healthy" foods too.2 -
Christine_72 wrote: »supaflyrobby1 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Shawshankcan wrote: »Just remember that none of these studies say artificial sweeteners are directly responsible for weight gain. I mean, how can something with zero calories make you fat? These studies all suggest that artificial sweeteners somehow make you hungrier, and that this accounts for the weight gain. Not that this is true for everyone.
Pretty sure that was debunked.
I dont think peoples very individual experiences with artificial sweeteners can be debunked... We are not all perfect robots who react exactly the same way to every single substance on the planet.
That is true I suppose, as far as it goes, you can't "debunk" someone's purely anecdotal claim. Then again, purely anecdotal claims are not science either.
Unless they offer themselves up to science to be studied, anecdotal is all we've got.
Just say I started feeling sickly, bloated, headachy and was experiencing intense cravings all of a sudden. Perhaps i just introduced diet soda into my diet, so this would be the obvious place to start. So i quit drinking the soda and all of those side effects disappeared, it would be my anecdotal claim that the diet soda was causing these problems.
But the problem is usually there's not just one change and, of course, it's hard to separate what the effect is with the placebo or nocebo effect. People think diet soda is supposed to make them uncontrollably crave sugar, and they report doing so -- what caused it.
There have been studies of similar things where people who knew they were consuming whatever it was had the effect and others did not, and similarly where people who were told about a possible side effect had it but others did not. Minds are weird.
Someone upthread said that she made NO changing to her diet but switching regular soda to diet and gained weight. That's impossible -- clearly something else happened, yet that person perceives only that change.
When I first started (Jan 2014) I cut out added sugar and had all sorts of positive effects on my mood, or so I would have said. Then I added sugar back in and felt the same. I think it was finally taking control of my diet that actually had positive effects, but who knows -- maybe things in my life that led to the positive mood changes also led to me feeling able to take control of my diet?
For ages I was convinced that I need protein to feel full between breakfast and lunch, and so planned breakfast based on that. Then I had a few days where I just wanted a savory oatmeal with some veg and one egg -- not very high protein, and instead high carb. I was equally satisfied until lunch as before -- seems that the habit of not eating between breakfast and lunch might have been more important for me, but I'd posted over and over about how important adding in lots of protein to breakfast was, because I genuinely thought so.7 -
jennybearlv wrote: »jennybearlv wrote: »I have to wonder if how much artificial sweetener people use could come into play. When I go out with my artificial sweetener using family I use I packet of sugar or none at all in coffee or tea. The rest of the table is dumping four or more sweetener packets in every glass. All those "zero" calories have to add up at some point. I also wonder if they can dull your taste for sweet as well. A relative once made me a bowl of strawberries and poured splenda on them. I couldn't eat them. It was unbearably sweet. Sweeter than candy and I love candy.
If you are using the packets, then yes, there are some trace carbs (dextrose, et al.) used as fillers and they do add up, but you would have to be eating loads of packets each day for it to have a significant effect on your overall calorie intake. The difference between this and the diet drinks is that they do not have the fillers, so there would be no added carbs to 'add up'.
Yeah, I looked it up. Even though my family appears to be going crazy with those packets the highest calorie count I could find was 8.75 calories per 100g. I'm guessing their weight problems are probably more about applying those quantities to all the other "healthy" foods too.
This would all be so much easier if it was just one food making people fat. Everybody could stop eating that one thing, and be set.3 -
jennybearlv wrote: »I have to wonder if how much artificial sweetener people use could come into play. When I go out with my artificial sweetener using family I use I packet of sugar or none at all in coffee or tea. The rest of the table is dumping four or more sweetener packets in every glass. All those "zero" calories have to add up at some point. I also wonder if they can dull your taste for sweet as well. A relative once made me a bowl of strawberries and poured splenda on them. I couldn't eat them. It was unbearably sweet. Sweeter than candy and I love candy.
I use splenda in my coffee and I use 1/2 pkt per large cup. The thought of using 4 pkts makes my teeth hurt oiy! Artificial sweetener is so much sweeter than regular sugar, I can't imagine using a lot of it at once.
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Christine_72 wrote: »supaflyrobby1 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Shawshankcan wrote: »Just remember that none of these studies say artificial sweeteners are directly responsible for weight gain. I mean, how can something with zero calories make you fat? These studies all suggest that artificial sweeteners somehow make you hungrier, and that this accounts for the weight gain. Not that this is true for everyone.
Pretty sure that was debunked.
I dont think peoples very individual experiences with artificial sweeteners can be debunked... We are not all perfect robots who react exactly the same way to every single substance on the planet.
That is true I suppose, as far as it goes, you can't "debunk" someone's purely anecdotal claim. Then again, purely anecdotal claims are not science either.
Unless they offer themselves up to science to be studied, anecdotal is all we've got.
Just say I started feeling sickly, bloated, headachy and was experiencing intense cravings all of a sudden. Perhaps i just introduced diet soda into my diet, so this would be the obvious place to start. So i quit drinking the soda and all of those side effects disappeared, it would be my anecdotal claim that the diet soda was causing these problems.
You offering yourself up for study in the above scenario would prove absolutely nothing since virtually nothing scientifically significant can be inferred from a single case unless you happen to be patient zero in some newly discovered zoonotic infectious disease.
Anecdotes are fine of course. They only become problematic when people attempt to make huge generalizations from them which can not be validated. And let's face a significant reality shall we? Can you name another industry besides fitness and nutrition that has more completely unsubstantiated nonsense in it? I can't think of one.4 -
Christine_72 wrote: »supaflyrobby1 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Shawshankcan wrote: »Just remember that none of these studies say artificial sweeteners are directly responsible for weight gain. I mean, how can something with zero calories make you fat? These studies all suggest that artificial sweeteners somehow make you hungrier, and that this accounts for the weight gain. Not that this is true for everyone.
Pretty sure that was debunked.
I dont think peoples very individual experiences with artificial sweeteners can be debunked... We are not all perfect robots who react exactly the same way to every single substance on the planet.
That is true I suppose, as far as it goes, you can't "debunk" someone's purely anecdotal claim. Then again, purely anecdotal claims are not science either.
Unless they offer themselves up to science to be studied, anecdotal is all we've got.
Just say I started feeling sickly, bloated, headachy and was experiencing intense cravings all of a sudden. Perhaps i just introduced diet soda into my diet, so this would be the obvious place to start. So i quit drinking the soda and all of those side effects disappeared, it would be my anecdotal claim that the diet soda was causing these problems.
People HAVE offered themselves to science to be studied.
They found that people who claimed to be sensitive to aspartame got reactions just as much from the placebo.
That's the thing with anecdotal reports, there's a ton of confounding factors and you attributing it to one specific thing doesn't make it the culprit.4 -
stevencloser wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »supaflyrobby1 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Shawshankcan wrote: »Just remember that none of these studies say artificial sweeteners are directly responsible for weight gain. I mean, how can something with zero calories make you fat? These studies all suggest that artificial sweeteners somehow make you hungrier, and that this accounts for the weight gain. Not that this is true for everyone.
Pretty sure that was debunked.
I dont think peoples very individual experiences with artificial sweeteners can be debunked... We are not all perfect robots who react exactly the same way to every single substance on the planet.
That is true I suppose, as far as it goes, you can't "debunk" someone's purely anecdotal claim. Then again, purely anecdotal claims are not science either.
Unless they offer themselves up to science to be studied, anecdotal is all we've got.
Just say I started feeling sickly, bloated, headachy and was experiencing intense cravings all of a sudden. Perhaps i just introduced diet soda into my diet, so this would be the obvious place to start. So i quit drinking the soda and all of those side effects disappeared, it would be my anecdotal claim that the diet soda was causing these problems.
People HAVE offered themselves to science to be studied.
They found that people who claimed to be sensitive to aspartame got reactions just as much from the placebo.
That's the thing with anecdotal reports, there's a ton of confounding factors and you attributing it to one specific thing doesn't make it the culprit.
Steven brings up an important point here, as this type of phenomenon is exceedingly common with these types of clinical trials. Enter the Nocebo effect, or reverse placebo effect. It was also observed In one of the largest and most prominent studies ever conducted on "Gluten sensitivity". To make a long story short, people who did not ingest anything containing gluten, but thought they were, STILL reported symptoms. This despite of the fact that there was no biological mechanism of action for their claims
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jgh.13705/full
So are these types of people just "liars"? Perhaps, though in their head they may well actually believe that something is wrong with them. Psychology is not really my area of expertise. However, what I do know is that in the absence of a measurable and quantifiable biological reality which can be directly observed, a researcher must rely on the anecdotal, as was mentioned previously. Obviously, the resultant research is worthless if people are not being candid with you.
This is important to keep in mind with these types of studies.
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I say, if you're sitting there craving sugar, it's better to choose the diet soda than the slice of cake.2
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jennybearlv wrote: »A relative once made me a bowl of strawberries and poured splenda on them. I couldn't eat them. It was unbearably sweet. Sweeter than candy and I love candy.
This--my mother eats fruit salad for breakfast but adds so much stevia that it's sickeningly sweet (plus that aftertaste!) for me. I just like fruit, I don't need to sweeten it. Then she said "maybe you don't like stevia because your taste buds are used to so much sugar." Sigh. I'm not saying I don't like desserts, but that fruit salad was just tooooo much. Even before I went on this weight loss program I'd scrape most of the frosting off of a cupcake for example, because the sugar was a bit much for me, so I might be a weirdo... But I like to taste my food not get a toothache from the sweet-rush.
Also, I don't know if this applies to artificial sweeteners, but I know they studied it with fast food salads, and they found that if people *think* they're making a healthy choice, then they tend to indulge in something more caloric later (these were people who weren't counting calories obviously), eg they order the salad, but are more likely to get dessert, or eat a larger meal later.2 -
nevadavis1 wrote: »jennybearlv wrote: »A relative once made me a bowl of strawberries and poured splenda on them. I couldn't eat them. It was unbearably sweet. Sweeter than candy and I love candy.
Also, I don't know if this applies to artificial sweeteners, but I know they studied it with fast food salads, and they found that if people *think* they're making a healthy choice, then they tend to indulge in something more caloric later (these were people who weren't counting calories obviously), eg they order the salad, but are more likely to get dessert, or eat a larger meal later.
Same mentality as, "I just walked ten blocks instead of taking the bus. I totally earned a large fries." (Note: depending on the length of the blocks, the rate of speed of the walk, the fitness of the individual, and the size of the deficit the individual is trying to maintain—if any—this statement could be true. However, in practice, it seldom is.)
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supaflyrobby1 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »supaflyrobby1 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Shawshankcan wrote: »Just remember that none of these studies say artificial sweeteners are directly responsible for weight gain. I mean, how can something with zero calories make you fat? These studies all suggest that artificial sweeteners somehow make you hungrier, and that this accounts for the weight gain. Not that this is true for everyone.
Pretty sure that was debunked.
I dont think peoples very individual experiences with artificial sweeteners can be debunked... We are not all perfect robots who react exactly the same way to every single substance on the planet.
That is true I suppose, as far as it goes, you can't "debunk" someone's purely anecdotal claim. Then again, purely anecdotal claims are not science either.
Unless they offer themselves up to science to be studied, anecdotal is all we've got.
Just say I started feeling sickly, bloated, headachy and was experiencing intense cravings all of a sudden. Perhaps i just introduced diet soda into my diet, so this would be the obvious place to start. So i quit drinking the soda and all of those side effects disappeared, it would be my anecdotal claim that the diet soda was causing these problems.
People HAVE offered themselves to science to be studied.
They found that people who claimed to be sensitive to aspartame got reactions just as much from the placebo.
That's the thing with anecdotal reports, there's a ton of confounding factors and you attributing it to one specific thing doesn't make it the culprit.
Steven brings up an important point here, as this type of phenomenon is exceedingly common with these types of clinical trials. Enter the Nocebo effect, or reverse placebo effect. It was also observed In one of the largest and most prominent studies ever conducted on "Gluten sensitivity". To make a long story short, people who did not ingest anything containing gluten, but thought they were, STILL reported symptoms. This despite of the fact that there was no biological mechanism of action for their claims
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jgh.13705/full
So are these types of people just "liars"? Perhaps, though in their head they may well actually believe that something is wrong with them. Psychology is not really my area of expertise. However, what I do know is that in the absence of a measurable and quantifiable biological reality which can be directly observed, a researcher must rely on the anecdotal, as was mentioned previously. Obviously, the resultant research is worthless if people are not being candid with you.
This is important to keep in mind with these types of studies.
The placebo effect is seen even when people are informed they are taking a placebo.
http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/placebo-can-work-even-know-placebo-2016070799263 -
The_Enginerd wrote: »The placebo effect is seen even when people are informed they are taking a placebo.
http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/placebo-can-work-even-know-placebo-201607079926
Right off the bat what I noticed in the linked commentary is the huge assumption participants not only knew, but fully comprehended, what a placebo is when told they were being given one. Never assume a layperson understands the same as you do (as an educated scientist) what the medical terminology means. One of the first things I learned post-grad.3 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liiVX55tJ7EThis discussion has been closed.
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