Is beer good to bulk up/weight gain?

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  • husseycd
    husseycd Posts: 814 Member
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    But what is moderation? One glass of wine, leads to a bottle. I've seen it all too often and the effects is has on the person and their families. Even alcoholics start with just a glass.

    The same with cocaine, one snort leads to another, and with heroine, one injection leads to another.

    Good grief. Quit projecting your own issues with alcohol on others. And as far as the "peak physical body condition", you have no pictures and 4 posts, so I'm not going to take your opinion too seriously. My body is in pretty good physical condition despite that I am a social drinkers who regularly drink 3+ drinks on a Friday or Saturday. Could I be in better condition without the booze? Sure. But I'll take my 18% BF and visible abs and my Old Fashioned and general enjoyment of life over "peak physical condition", thank-you-very-much.
  • parkscs
    parkscs Posts: 1,639 Member
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    Define bulking up. Is it mass (any) or muscle specifically?

    Alcohol has catabolic effects. So you are not as efficient at assimilating and resynthesizing protein while metabolizing alcohol

    http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0088384

    That said - I think we should all live a little. are you an elite bodybuilder? A tier one wrestler? Do you sleep 8 hours daily?What I'm saying is that not all we do "optimizes" our training and results. We are not just "calorie trackers". We are people.

    If you are a silver medal winner looking for that extra 0.2% to get to the top, then yeah - you do all the little things and live like an ascetic monk. For the rest of us, if you are not happy with your current weight management results, you start looking for the missing pieces. One of them might be resting more, or drinking less, or so on.

    I am not even going to deal with "one glass leads to a bottle". Following that logic, eating one chicken breast leads you to eat the whole chicken. Right?

    You're overstating the findings of your own study. Studies in this area relate to binge drinking and say little about the effects of having a pint several times a week. From the study you're citing:
    he alcohol dose in the present study represented the mean intake of alcohol reported by team athletes during a drinking binge [9], [10] and an amount previously investigated in relation to post-exercise refuelling [14]. The alcohol ingestion protocol (1.5 g·kg−1 BM; 12±2 standard drinks) began 1 h post-exercise and was consumed in 6 equal volumes of 1 part vodka (~60 mL) to four parts orange juice (~240 mL, 1.8 g CHO·kg−1 BM) during a 3 h period. For the PRO condition, orange juice was consumed with a matched volume of water in place of the alcohol. Subjects ingested the beverages within 5 min every 30 min.

    Is it really so surprising that it can mess with your training/recovery if, within 1 hour of training, you binge drink and throw back 12 +- 2 drinks? I can't even remember the last time I consumed 12 drinks worth of alcohol in a single evening. So while binge drinking and getting trashed is generally bad for both gains and your body in general, I haven't seen any studies that suggest having an occasional drink impairs your ability to make gains.

    Honestly, I don't really know why people in these threads seem to equate having a drink to substance abuse/binge drinking/addiction. Alcoholics are but a fraction of the total number of people who consume alcohol and it's very possible to consume alcohol in moderation, with the goal being stress relief and enjoyment versus getting ****faced.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    But what is moderation? One glass of wine, leads to a bottle. I've seen it all too often and the effects is has on the person and their families. Even alcoholics start with just a glass.

    The same with cocaine, one snort leads to another, and with heroine, one injection leads to another.

    Good grief. Quit projecting your own issues with alcohol on others. And as far as the "peak physical body condition", you have no pictures and 4 posts, so I'm not going to take your opinion too seriously. My body is in pretty good physical condition despite that I am a social drinkers who regularly drink 3+ drinks on a Friday or Saturday. Could I be in better condition without the booze? Sure. But I'll take my 18% BF and visible abs and my Old Fashioned and general enjoyment of life over "peak physical condition", thank-you-very-much.

    troof- lots of troof.

    plus areial silks- which automatically counts for awesome points- and I'm pretty sure those burn calories to ;)
    Honestly, I don't really know why people in these threads seem to equate having a drink to substance abuse/binge drinking/addiction. Alcoholics are but a fraction of the total number of people who consume alcohol and it's very possible to consume alcohol in moderation, with the goal being stress relief and enjoyment versus getting ****faced.
    probably the same people who think having ONE single 68 gram serving of ice cream and or potatoes is going to lead to immediate obesity.
  • parkscs
    parkscs Posts: 1,639 Member
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    QUOTE:
    Honestly, I don't really know why people in these threads seem to equate having a drink to substance abuse/binge drinking/addiction. Alcoholics are but a fraction of the total number of people who consume alcohol and it's very possible to consume alcohol in moderation, with the goal being stress relief and enjoyment versus getting ****faced.

    probably the same people who think having ONE single 68 gram serving of ice cream and or potatoes is going to lead to immediate obesity.

    Potato addiction - the next great epidemic.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    QUOTE:
    Honestly, I don't really know why people in these threads seem to equate having a drink to substance abuse/binge drinking/addiction. Alcoholics are but a fraction of the total number of people who consume alcohol and it's very possible to consume alcohol in moderation, with the goal being stress relief and enjoyment versus getting ****faced.

    probably the same people who think having ONE single 68 gram serving of ice cream and or potatoes is going to lead to immediate obesity.

    Potato addiction - the next great epidemic.

    we already talked about the low fat craze- now the low carb- in 10 years it's going to be LOW PROTEIN!!!!!

    GET YOUR LOW PROTEIN WATER HERE!!!
  • husseycd
    husseycd Posts: 814 Member
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    plus areial silks- which automatically counts for awesome points- and I'm pretty sure those burn calories to ;)

    Haha, very true. However, aerial silks + hangover = not so awesome. So, I suppose the anti-beer folks are onto something there. :wink:
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    plus areial silks- which automatically counts for awesome points- and I'm pretty sure those burn calories to ;)

    Haha, very true. However, aerial silks + hangover = not so awesome. So, I suppose the anti-beer folks are onto something there. :wink:

    BAW HA HA HA_ yeah- no.... that would be bad.

    I haven't ever bothered showing up to dance class hung over- we play finger cymbals- and we are not shy about them- there is no way I could do that with a hangover- I'm a horrible person wiht a hangover- so I just don't do it any more... if I had to do silks- I would just hang up side down and throw up. LMAO
  • sunglasses_and_ocean_waves
    sunglasses_and_ocean_waves Posts: 2,757 Member
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    0V4N5ss.jpg <<< plie squats, bridge, hip thrusts, running hills and Stella Artois.
  • caesar164
    caesar164 Posts: 312 Member
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    Define bulking up. Is it mass (any) or muscle specifically?

    Alcohol has catabolic effects. So you are not as efficient at assimilating and resynthesizing protein while metabolizing alcohol

    http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0088384

    That said - I think we should all live a little. are you an elite bodybuilder? A tier one wrestler? Do you sleep 8 hours daily?What I'm saying is that not all we do "optimizes" our training and results. We are not just "calorie trackers". We are people.

    If you are a silver medal winner looking for that extra 0.2% to get to the top, then yeah - you do all the little things and live like an ascetic monk. For the rest of us, if you are not happy with your current weight management results, you start looking for the missing pieces. One of them might be resting more, or drinking less, or so on.

    I am not even going to deal with "one glass leads to a bottle". Following that logic, eating one chicken breast leads you to eat the whole chicken. Right?

    This is the best advice so far; everything else I would ignore! Have your beer if you want it! If its something you like to treat yourself with; but it does not help with making quality gains; and I wouldn't attribute strength gains with drinking.
  • SteveJWatson
    SteveJWatson Posts: 1,225 Member
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    Ffs, its only a couple of pints a day. If you hit your Protein targets, why the hell not?

    There seems to be this puritanical streak running through the fitness industry, and I really can't find any hard evidence that (non-binge) drinking helps or hinders muscle/strength gain.

    Beer is full of lovely b-vitamins and hops are soporific helping you get that all-important sleep.

    I've met plenty in the forces and plenty in construction and plenty in my field (agriculture) who like a drink or two and are hellishly strong. Yes, I know its anecdotal, but there it is.
  • tycho_mx
    tycho_mx Posts: 426 Member
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    Define bulking up. Is it mass (any) or muscle specifically?

    Alcohol has catabolic effects. So you are not as efficient at assimilating and resynthesizing protein while metabolizing alcohol

    http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0088384

    That said - I think we should all live a little. are you an elite bodybuilder? A tier one wrestler? Do you sleep 8 hours daily?What I'm saying is that not all we do "optimizes" our training and results. We are not just "calorie trackers". We are people.

    If you are a silver medal winner looking for that extra 0.2% to get to the top, then yeah - you do all the little things and live like an ascetic monk. For the rest of us, if you are not happy with your current weight management results, you start looking for the missing pieces. One of them might be resting more, or drinking less, or so on.

    I am not even going to deal with "one glass leads to a bottle". Following that logic, eating one chicken breast leads you to eat the whole chicken. Right?

    You're overstating the findings of your own study. Studies in this area relate to binge drinking and say little about the effects of having a pint several times a week. From the study you're citing:
    he alcohol dose in the present study represented the mean intake of alcohol reported by team athletes during a drinking binge [9], [10] and an amount previously investigated in relation to post-exercise refuelling [14]. The alcohol ingestion protocol (1.5 g·kg−1 BM; 12±2 standard drinks) began 1 h post-exercise and was consumed in 6 equal volumes of 1 part vodka (~60 mL) to four parts orange juice (~240 mL, 1.8 g CHO·kg−1 BM) during a 3 h period. For the PRO condition, orange juice was consumed with a matched volume of water in place of the alcohol. Subjects ingested the beverages within 5 min every 30 min.

    Is it really so surprising that it can mess with your training/recovery if, within 1 hour of training, you binge drink and throw back 12 +- 2 drinks? I can't even remember the last time I consumed 12 drinks worth of alcohol in a single evening. So while binge drinking and getting trashed is generally bad for both gains and your body in general, I haven't seen any studies that suggest having an occasional drink impairs your ability to make gains.

    Honestly, I don't really know why people in these threads seem to equate having a drink to substance abuse/binge drinking/addiction. Alcoholics are but a fraction of the total number of people who consume alcohol and it's very possible to consume alcohol in moderation, with the goal being stress relief and enjoyment versus getting ****faced.


    Good grief. Did you read the rest of my post, the part about "live a little, diminishing returns, fractions of percentage difference" ? I drink. I have no problem with it. Do I consider it performance food? No. Do I think it hinders my athletic progress? Very little, and not inherently (it just makes it harder to balance the caloric budget). To clarify my stance: if I was trying to get in peak condition, I would stop drinking for a short period before competition. And would also mind more my food intake, recovery, and stress levels. My best bike race was handled like this. I had a good result, but that was a heavy investment and I don't do that frequently (maybe a 2 week period per year leading to a goal event). And you know? Most people don't take competition that seriously. That's ok, too. I don't take my resistance training very seriously - it's just maintenance to be strong on the bike and to be able to toss my kids in the air without throwing my back.

    For other examples citing catabolic effects like increase of cortisol, decrease of testosterone level, and effects on strength Vs. aerobic training (summary - some effects observed, nothing that says "don't drink ever").

    Sierksma A, et al. Effect of moderate alcohol consumption on plasma dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate, testosterone, and estradiol levels in middle-aged men and postmenopausal women: a diet-controlled intervention study. Alcohol Clin Exp Res. 2004 May;28(5):780-5.
    Koziris LP, et al. Effect of acute postexercise ethanol intoxication on the neuroendocrine response to resistance exercise. J Appl Physiol. 2000 Jan;88(1):165-72.
    Heikkonen E, et al. The combined effect of alcohol and physical exercise on serum testosterone, luteinizing hormone, and cortisol in males. Alcohol Clin Exp Res. 1996 Jun;20(4):711-6.

    Just a note - the heavy drinking after sports is not that unusual. See "beer league". I used to play volleyball in one, sponsored by a Pub. They'd include free appetizers with your pitcher of beer and discount coupons if you attended every week :)
  • parkscs
    parkscs Posts: 1,639 Member
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    I don't think we disagree on the subject at all. I'm just saying the blanket conclusion of "alcohol has catabolic effects" isn't what that study (or any of those studies) stands for, and I don't think you think it stands for that either. In large quantities it definitely can have an effect, but even then you have to consider how tangible that effect is in the greater scheme of things (i.e., we're almost certainly talking about less than optimal gains vs. prohibiting gains, as there are plenty of very strong, very aesthetic people out there that are known to get blitzed from time to time). I definitely agree though that professional body builders and the like should probably abstain, but that's neither here nor there for pretty much everyone on this forum.

    As for the OP, is alcohol "good" for a bulk? I think the answer is it depends. I personally limit my IPA consumption to all but zero when cutting weight because I just don't have the calories for it, but I'd definitely have one at least once a week on a bulk. In that context, it's good in the sense I enjoy it, but otherwise likely has no effect whatsoever. Does getting blitzed to add muscle make any sense? Not in the slightest.
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,835 Member
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    Read first page only.

    This been posted yet? http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sex_news_sports_funny/a_muscleheads_guide_to_alcohol_1

    Pretty much a definitive guide to alcohol and body building.
  • MagnumBurrito
    MagnumBurrito Posts: 1,070 Member
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    Read first page only.

    This been posted yet? http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sex_news_sports_funny/a_muscleheads_guide_to_alcohol_1

    Pretty much a definitive guide to alcohol and body building.

    Not as bad as I previously thought, but the lowering of testosterone is enough for me to stay away from daily consumption.
  • MityMax96
    MityMax96 Posts: 5,778 Member
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    Where the F*** is my testosterone?? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

    I don't drink at all.
  • husseycd
    husseycd Posts: 814 Member
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    Read first page only.

    This been posted yet? http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sex_news_sports_funny/a_muscleheads_guide_to_alcohol_1

    Pretty much a definitive guide to alcohol and body building.

    Thanks for that link!

    I make sure to hit my protein requirements and eat plenty of fruits and veggies, but usually have a few hundred calories left over that I like to use on alcohol. During the week I usually have one or two drinks a night (or sometimes none), and then a few more on Friday/Saturday. I haven't noticed a single issue with building muscle. Granted I'm female and 38, but still, I've made some great progress in the last year.

    One thing I do try to do is not waste calories, and go for food that is nutrient dense. So it's either dessert or alcohol for those extra calories. If I'm going to consume calories with little to no benefit (i.e. alcohol or sugar), I tend to go for the alcohol.

    This has given me the leanest body in my life. In fact, I'm thinner (and in better shape) than I was in high-school. By only a few lbs, but still. The article pretty much confirms my suspicions. Woo-hoo! :drinker:
  • SteveJWatson
    SteveJWatson Posts: 1,225 Member
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    Read first page only.

    This been posted yet? http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sex_news_sports_funny/a_muscleheads_guide_to_alcohol_1

    Pretty much a definitive guide to alcohol and body building.

    Not as bad as I previously thought, but the lowering of testosterone is enough for me to stay away from daily consumption.

    Interesting.

    The streets of the UK after the pubs chuck out don't seem to be short of testosterone....
  • mantium999
    mantium999 Posts: 1,490 Member
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    In for the beer
  • LazSommer
    LazSommer Posts: 1,851 Member
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    Aren't you the bro that wanted to get big while running all the time?
  • MagnumBurrito
    MagnumBurrito Posts: 1,070 Member
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    http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2014/06/true-or-false-occasional-weekend.html?utm_source=feedburner&amp;utm_medium=email&amp;utm_campaign=Feed:+Suppversity-NutritionAndExerciseScienceForEveryone+(SuppVersity+-+Nutrition+and+Exercise+Science+for+Everyone)

    "Enough of the ranting - Let's take stock, now: Alcohol impairs protein synthesis, specifically in the fast-twitch "easy-growing" type II fibers. Alcohol nullifies the anabolic and anti-catabolic effects of insulin and IGF-1 on skeletal muscle. Alcohol increases myostatin and puts a break on muscle growth. Alcohol intoxicates the testes, reduces testosterone production in men and messes with the estrogen to androgen ratio in men and women. And, last but not least, alcohol impairs post-workout glycogen re-synthesis (Burke. 2003) and augments the loss of force associated strenuous eccentric exercise (Barnes. 2010a,b).

    You can hardly need more reasons to be convinced that this true of false article is dealing with a "false" hypothesis. Alcohol will hamper skeletal muscle hypertrophy, it will decrease your testosterone levels and it will impair your strength and recovery. So, do you really want more good reasons to stay away from booze in general and "above-threshold" doses of 1.5g/kg, in particular?"

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