can i build muscle on a calorie deficit?
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Courtesy of Alan Aragon, who knows a thing or two about nutrition and training:
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When you're a lifter, you must embrace carbs. Can you gain muscles on keto, yea, but is it optimal...hell no. There's a reason why athletes are asked to carb up, imagine Michael Phelps eating the calories he's eating, but on keto...I highly doubt he would acheive what he acheived in his career. Mind you, you are not in a competition, so you can still get away with keto if you want, but you seem to hinder your potential by starving yourself (1300 calories is too low), by eating low protein and being on keto...
I'm not a lifter and I've never been in shape. I just lost 26 pounds after being overweight my entire life so Keto feels good right now. I do want muscle, but I'm afraid that if I start eating carbs again, there won't be a middle ground. I'm not sure what my potential is, but I'm afraid I will just get fat again.0 -
Carbs do not make one fat or gain weight....too many calories in total does...I am not sure you are listening to what the other posters have said. So here it all is in summary, not too much science, but just straight forward speak:
You cannot gain muscle on those calories and doing those exercises. You are most likely (probably most definitely) going to lose muscle/lean mass this way (continuing to be in a deficit and eating low carb). Muscle gain is achieved via resistance training (lifting/moving heavy weights). Muscle gain is optimal on a surplus of calories (not overeating, just planning a certain caloric surplus) and via upping carbohydrates. You should be upping carbs in order to eat "normally" now in any case, diet break, maintenance and all that jazz (117lbs is pretty light).
I am thinking *facepalm* but in the hopes that maybe one more post might get through, here goes (hopefully something)...3 -
tlanger251 wrote: »When you're a lifter, you must embrace carbs. Can you gain muscles on keto, yea, but is it optimal...hell no. There's a reason why athletes are asked to carb up, imagine Michael Phelps eating the calories he's eating, but on keto...I highly doubt he would acheive what he acheived in his career. Mind you, you are not in a competition, so you can still get away with keto if you want, but you seem to hinder your potential by starving yourself (1300 calories is too low), by eating low protein and being on keto...
I'm not a lifter and I've never been in shape. I just lost 26 pounds after being overweight my entire life so Keto feels good right now. I do want muscle, but I'm afraid that if I start eating carbs again, there won't be a middle ground. I'm not sure what my potential is, but I'm afraid I will just get fat again.
If you're not a lifter and don't want to lift, which would be your choice, being on keto is fine, but don't expect any changes when it comes to building muscles and having that toned body look. Building muscles help that and you need to be in a caloric surplus + tension in your muscles that gives them a reason to grow and that comes from lifting something.
Congrats on losing the 26 lbs, but the mistake in your thinking is that keto is the reason you lost weight which is false. Keto was a tool that you used to be in a caloric deficit which directly caused you to lose weight. I specify this, because many people who do keto demonize carbs and think that they are the cause of any weight gain. That is not true. I just wanted to say that incase you are one who thinks that way too. I only mention this for informational purpose, if you enjoy keto, then by all means do keto. Just remember, keto is only a tool and if that's the tool that makes it easier and enjoyable for you to lose weight, then stay on keto. If you do want to build muscles, just remember, keto is not optimal, but I am sure you know that by now as there are a few of us who told you that in this thread.
Keto is what has allowed me to stay on a negative calorie diet.. because I don't crave sugar anymore. i could never stay on any diet for longer than a month when i was eating carbs... but yes, i hear you all. I hope I can get toned.. maybe i'll try carbs again.. but not now.. eating even 40 or 50 grams of carbs makes me so keto flu sick.. have to get through finals first. thanks everyone.. i have a much better of idea of what i need to do..2 -
To lose weight, eat fewer calories than you burn.
To gain muscle, eat slightly more calories than you burn, with a higher percentage of them coming from protein, and repeatedly lift / put down heavy things. Adjust how many extra calories you're eating, as well as the % from protein, until you start getting the results you want.
Those goals are contradictory.
(And to be healthy, eat a wide variety of foods from various sources.)2 -
tlanger251 wrote: »tlanger251 wrote: »When you're a lifter, you must embrace carbs. Can you gain muscles on keto, yea, but is it optimal...hell no. There's a reason why athletes are asked to carb up, imagine Michael Phelps eating the calories he's eating, but on keto...I highly doubt he would acheive what he acheived in his career. Mind you, you are not in a competition, so you can still get away with keto if you want, but you seem to hinder your potential by starving yourself (1300 calories is too low), by eating low protein and being on keto...
I'm not a lifter and I've never been in shape. I just lost 26 pounds after being overweight my entire life so Keto feels good right now. I do want muscle, but I'm afraid that if I start eating carbs again, there won't be a middle ground. I'm not sure what my potential is, but I'm afraid I will just get fat again.
If you're not a lifter and don't want to lift, which would be your choice, being on keto is fine, but don't expect any changes when it comes to building muscles and having that toned body look. Building muscles help that and you need to be in a caloric surplus + tension in your muscles that gives them a reason to grow and that comes from lifting something.
Congrats on losing the 26 lbs, but the mistake in your thinking is that keto is the reason you lost weight which is false. Keto was a tool that you used to be in a caloric deficit which directly caused you to lose weight. I specify this, because many people who do keto demonize carbs and think that they are the cause of any weight gain. That is not true. I just wanted to say that incase you are one who thinks that way too. I only mention this for informational purpose, if you enjoy keto, then by all means do keto. Just remember, keto is only a tool and if that's the tool that makes it easier and enjoyable for you to lose weight, then stay on keto. If you do want to build muscles, just remember, keto is not optimal, but I am sure you know that by now as there are a few of us who told you that in this thread.
Keto is what has allowed me to stay on a negative calorie diet.. because I don't crave sugar anymore. i could never stay on any diet for longer than a month when i was eating carbs... but yes, i hear you all. I hope I can get toned.. maybe i'll try carbs again.. but not now.. eating even 40 or 50 grams of carbs makes me so keto flu sick.. have to get through finals first. thanks everyone.. i have a much better of idea of what i need to do..
keto flu should not be happening if you are still eating keto that usually happens when one first starts out ,you get that because your body is depleted of glycogen,water,etc. what do you mean negative calorie diet? all food has calories. if you are eating and working out and netting 0 calories or netting negative numbers then you are losing lean mass/muscle for sure. you get toned from losing fat over any existing muscle.
if you are really eating negative amounts of calories after exercise then you are skinny fat and losing more weight is not going to help you look more toned.if eating that amount of carbs make you sick then I would say something else is at play causing it. you dont get keto flu increasing your carbs,if anything it would reverse it but again that should not be happening 6 months down the road.0 -
ha i meant calorie deficit.. and yes I am skinny fat. that is the problem-why I posted originally. cause i want to be toned.
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tlanger251 wrote: »ha i meant calorie deficit.. and yes I am skinny fat. that is the problem-why I posted originally. cause i want to be toned.
then eat at maintenance and do a recomp which can take 6 months or more. or do a bulk,gain some muscle and some fat, how much depends on your surplus,and then do a cut later.you cant get toned doing what you are and you need to eat more.you need to eat exercise calories back as well.do not net negative calories as its basically like not eating at all. and if you are afraid to gain weight talk to someone as gaining weight to build muscle to me is a different "demon" than gaining while not doing anything.you will accomplish something that way.2 -
An interesting article on why keto is less than ideal for those training.
http://www.bodyforwife.com/keto-and-low-carb-diets-kill-performance/5 -
i found a groupon with three training sessions at a small gym in my neighborhood... a lot of weights in there. thanks guys. also got some blood test results yesterday and my cholesterol is crazy high.. never had that problem before. i bought some fruit and black beans and am going to focus on eating more soluble fiber.. also changed diet to 1300 calories/carbs to 130 instead of 25 and reduced fat.3
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An interesting article on why keto is less than ideal for those training.
http://www.bodyforwife.com/keto-and-low-carb-diets-kill-performance/
Thanks for sharing that article. It has caused me to reconsider my low carb eating plan.
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Its fairly rare that carbs are the trigger but rather specific foods. Do you binge regardless if its fruit or candy?
Second, these guys are right, its very hard to gain while eating keto. What you can do is looking into keto bulking strategies like ckd or tkd. Often they time carbs around workouts and have carb refeeds. Is it going to be optimal like other diets, probably not. But it will allow you to stay keto. You will also want to decrease fats and increase proteins to around 90 to 110g per day.
Lastly, would you mind sharing your blood work numbers?3 -
An interesting article on why keto is less than ideal for those training.
http://www.bodyforwife.com/keto-and-low-carb-diets-kill-performance/
yes I found the article interesting also. I guess I should be eating around 150 grams of carbs. Keto really was good for me for many reasons though. I have been ridiculously inactive while in grad school and Keto allowed me to eat at a 20% deficit helping me lose 5 inches off my hips/thighs/chest (dropped a bra size off those big dumb boobs I hated) and -almost 6 inches off of my waist while laying in bed writing all day.
I think now though, I'm going to take my somewhat fatty loose skin body to the gym now and start eating carbs again.1 -
An interesting article on why keto is less than ideal for those training.
http://www.bodyforwife.com/keto-and-low-carb-diets-kill-performance/
I'm not seeing much science in this. Just a bunch of out of context quotes from random doctors/authors. If anything this is a GROSS exaggeration as not many people are super athletes such as NBA basketball stars or ultra marathon runners. Keto to the average person doesn't diminish gains. The examples in the article are way outside 3 sigma for normal distribution, please keep that in mind. Fear-mongering really doesn't help the conversation.
Short answer, Can you gain muscle in a caloric deficit. YES (under certain circumstances, mainly if you have excess fat and excess weight and haven't lifted weights much in the past)
Should you try: Probably not.
What to do instead: Others have pointed this out.
1.Either eat at maintenance or a little bit above and work on gaining muscle and lowering your body fat % (this is also usually called a re-comp) as you are just shifting from body fat to muscle mass. The goal isn't to lose weight but to just change the composition of your body.
2.Bulk, eat above maintenance for a period of time (this will result in weight gain), and then begin to lift to build muscle.
For the keto thing: I'd stick with what is sustainable to you, and as always get blood work done to ensure you are getting the proper macro nutrients needed. If you've low carb adapted and all blood work is in your favor I wouldn't add massive amounts of carbs back in just because the internet told you to.3 -
Its fairly rare that carbs are the trigger but rather specific foods. Do you binge regardless if its fruit or candy?
Second, these guys are right, its very hard to gain while eating keto. What you can do is looking into keto bulking strategies like ckd or tkd. Often they time carbs around workouts and have carb refeeds. Is it going to be optimal like other diets, probably not. But it will allow you to stay keto. You will also want to decrease fats and increase proteins to around 90 to 110g per day.
Lastly, would you mind sharing your blood work numbers?
This - there are ways to stay keto and at least enhance the ability when you start lifting.
It will merely take some planning as to when you eat those carbs.
Only because it seemed to come up several times in your responses - losing more fat won't help you look toned - because you have nothing there to see as muscle.
The state you are in is reached by many people doing many diets - fast losses & no resistance training.
You at least had adequate protein - but you also proved that without a reasonable deficit and resistance - it didn't help on it's own.
I'd suggest don't make the situation worse at this point, since you don't have time to start doing workouts that will really ask for muscle growth everywhere. Eat at maintenance. Eat more when you do more. Don't try to lose more weight.
Rock climbing will for a bit be useful - but as you've probably noticed on some great climbers - it ain't a big call for muscles - but endurance of the muscles you got.
So you may be able to at least strengthen what you got and tendons/ligaments - which will be useful for when you have more time to move into something more structured that can have a bigger effect on actually gaining muscles.
After your school schedule is better for it.2 -
Its fairly rare that carbs are the trigger but rather specific foods. Do you binge regardless if its fruit or candy?
Second, these guys are right, its very hard to gain while eating keto. What you can do is looking into keto bulking strategies like ckd or tkd. Often they time carbs around workouts and have carb refeeds. Is it going to be optimal like other diets, probably not. But it will allow you to stay keto. You will also want to decrease fats and increase proteins to around 90 to 110g per day.
Lastly, would you mind sharing your blood work numbers?
all of my sugars and everything were normal, but my LDL number is 168... another number, non HDL, is 187, and total cholesterol 290.. that is why I am adding soluble fiber - beans and fruit..and more veggies....i used to binge on pasta and bread and candy, .. don't want to start eating those again.
the other number that wasn't normal was a low carbon dioxide number of 16..
the thing about me is that I have never worked out hard enough to justify eating a ton of carbs.. kind of doubt i can, we'll see.0 -
Be aware that for years what has been some skepticism about the importance of those numbers to anything of importance, or as great of importance as it's made out to be.
Even the lately admitted info on cholesterol that studies many years ago pointed out, showing not as bad as thought.
And the fact more and more heart surgeons have released combined patient info showing they have patients getting work done with cholesterol levels all over the board, from what is considered great to awful - doesn't seem to be an indicator.
Trying to figure out what non-HDL is, that would be huge positive if it was HDL at 187. Is it VLDL or Triglycerides perhaps?0 -
I find myself laying here wondering if I can find some carbs to eat in the next 15 minutes before I start on tomorrow's calories.0
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