can i build muscle on a calorie deficit?
tlanger251
Posts: 86 Member
I've been doing keto for over six months and i've lost 26 pounds but I did not work out so even though i'm 117 pounds, I still have a lot of fat (I'm 5'4"). I am really good about eating the exact amount of macros that I need, but I'm [just now] starting to work out (walking/yoga/pilates/rock climbing is my plan). Right now I eat 900-1100 calories a day. I want to lose my fat, and gain muscle. Can I continue to eat 1000 calories a day and build muscle? I've done a lot of research and the information is very contradictory. The calories I need to maintain is around 1300.00
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Replies
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not really no.
you could try recomp if you started a lifting programme and ate at maintenance.12 -
If you are a beginner with alot of extra fat yes but not with walking yoga rock climbing3
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1300 to maintain? That's not right, especially if you are exercising. Based on your height and current weight (and age of 27 - no idea if that is even close), and sedentary lifestyle (office job), if I add in 4x 40mins of moderate exercise a week your TDEE is 1800 cals a day. You are vastly undereating and will absolutely not build muscle at your current calorie intake. If anything you probably are burning muscle.
Even if you stayed in bed all day long you would still be burning >1400cals a day. You need to re-evaluate.30 -
1300 neat seems low2
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Can you gain muscle in a deficit, while it is possible under specific circumstances, with your stats it will be difficult. You can expect some gains for those new to lifting, but will it be mind blowing physique changes? Likely not.
Also 1300 seems really low to maintain, and you aren't eating nearly enough which is a recipe for more muscle loss. I don't think losing more weight at this point will yield the body you are hoping for so I would look into recomposition.. so maintaining your weight while lifting weights.10 -
rianneonamission wrote: »1300 to maintain? That's not right, especially if you are exercising. Based on your height and current weight (and age of 27 - no idea if that is even close), and sedentary lifestyle (office job), if I add in 4x 40mins of moderate exercise a week your TDEE is 1800 cals a day. You are vastly undereating and will absolutely not build muscle at your current calorie intake. If anything you probably are burning muscle.
Even if you stayed in bed all day long you would still be burning >1400cals a day. You need to re-evaluate.
I'm 44 and yes, I've stayed in bed all day for the past year. I'm in grad school and I just lay here and do research and write all day (only exaggerating a tiny bit here). I just started making an effort to workout in the last month. I went rock climbing once last week, yoga a few times, and been taking the stairs whenever possible. I graduate in 10 weeks and I have big plans to workout/gain muscle, but I still have fat and I'm hesitant about eating more calories [because I still have fat].. Using the keto calculator, 1054 calories puts me at a 200 calories a day deficit. I know when I work out, the calories I need to eat will increase. I guess I'm wondering if my maintenance calories increase to 1600 (for example), can I eat 1400/1500 and gain muscle?0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »not really no.
you could try recomp if you started a lifting programme and ate at maintenance.
what is recomp? right now I eat 60-80 grams of protein everyday, I'm hoping I haven't lost muscle, but I can't tell. I've never really had any [muscle].0 -
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No. You're pretty low in calories and you need much more of a surplus to do it. And especially if you're on keto because protein synthesis is activated by certain pathways and keto dieting inhibits it, carbs are usually part of surplusing to add muscle.
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Can you gain muscle in a deficit, while it is possible under specific circumstances, with your stats it will be difficult. You can expect some gains for those new to lifting, but will it be mind blowing physique changes? Likely not.
Also 1300 seems really low to maintain, and you aren't eating nearly enough which is a recipe for more muscle loss. I don't think losing more weight at this point will yield the body you are hoping for so I would look into recomposition.. so maintaining your weight while lifting weights.
So.. you don't think I can build muscle with pilates, rock climbing, etc? I have no idea about lifting weights. I'll look into though, thanks.0 -
Not unless you're gaining weight. Gaining muscle is progressive to increase size, you'll eventually have to move more resistance. So if you're lighter in weight, you're moving LESS resistance, not more.tlanger251 wrote: »Can you gain muscle in a deficit, while it is possible under specific circumstances, with your stats it will be difficult. You can expect some gains for those new to lifting, but will it be mind blowing physique changes? Likely not.
Also 1300 seems really low to maintain, and you aren't eating nearly enough which is a recipe for more muscle loss. I don't think losing more weight at this point will yield the body you are hoping for so I would look into recomposition.. so maintaining your weight while lifting weights.
So.. you don't think I can build muscle with pilates, rock climbing, etc? I have no idea about lifting weights. I'll look into though, thanks.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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So.. you don't think I can build muscle with pilates, rock climbing, etc? I have no idea about lifting weights. I'll look into though, thanks.[/quote] Not unless you're gaining weight. Gaining muscle is progressive to increase size, you'll eventually have to move more resistance. So if you're lighter in weight, you're moving LESS resistance, not more.
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[/quote]
Thanks, I guess if I am working out, I will be more hungry?? I hope to stick to 10% carbs/25% protein/65% fat0 -
Carbs and protein are too low. Muscle is ONLY built from proteins and you need carbs to help with calories and anabolism if you're trying to gain muscle. Honestly, I'd look more at a 40% carbs/40% protein/20% fat ratio IF your intent is to put on muscle.tlanger251 wrote: »
Thanks, I guess if I am working out, I will be more hungry?? I hope to stick to 10% carbs/25% protein/65% fat
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Carbs and protein are too low. Muscle is ONLY built from proteins and you need carbs to help with calories and anabolism if you're trying to gain muscle. Honestly, I'd look more at a 40% carbs/40% protein/20% fat ratio IF your intent is to put on muscle.tlanger251 wrote: »
Thanks, I guess if I am working out, I will be more hungry?? I hope to stick to 10% carbs/25% protein/65% fat
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Before I started doing the ketogenic diet, I was addicted to carbs and I struggled with binge eating for my whole life. I am afraid to eat carbs again. For the first time in my life I only eat when I'm hungry.. There are body builders/athletes who swear by the 10/25/65 macros... I don't know.. guess I will have to do more research about that.3 -
For pre contest diet for a body builder, keto is fine, but that's NOT how they eat when they intend to bulk up more.tlanger251 wrote: »
Carbs and protein are too low. Muscle is ONLY built from proteins and you need carbs to help with calories and anabolism if you're trying to gain muscle. Honestly, I'd look more at a 40% carbs/40% protein/20% fat ratio IF your intent is to put on muscle.tlanger251 wrote: »
Thanks, I guess if I am working out, I will be more hungry?? I hope to stick to 10% carbs/25% protein/65% fat
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Before I started doing the ketogenic diet, I was addicted to carbs and I struggled with binge eating for my whole life. I am afraid to eat carbs again. For the first time in my life I only eat when I'm hungry.. There are body builders/athletes who swear by the 10/25/65 macros... I don't know.. guess I will have to do more research about that.
And athletes who swear by that ratio likely aren't great athletes. Because energy use needs to be on demand in many sports, low glycogen levels aren't optimal for great performance.
I'm just giving you the knowledge I know from working with people in body building and having competed myself, along with also training and working on nutrition with athletes in college. Physiology doesn't change much from person to person (unless there's a health issue involved), so it makes sense to follow dieting programs that encourage hypertrophy IF that's what you're really trying to do.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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tlanger251 wrote: »
Carbs and protein are too low. Muscle is ONLY built from proteins and you need carbs to help with calories and anabolism if you're trying to gain muscle. Honestly, I'd look more at a 40% carbs/40% protein/20% fat ratio IF your intent is to put on muscle.tlanger251 wrote: »
Thanks, I guess if I am working out, I will be more hungry?? I hope to stick to 10% carbs/25% protein/65% fat
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Before I started doing the ketogenic diet, I was addicted to carbs and I struggled with binge eating for my whole life. I am afraid to eat carbs again. For the first time in my life I only eat when I'm hungry.. There are body builders/athletes who swear by the 10/25/65 macros... I don't know.. guess I will have to do more research about that.
I suppose it can be done, although it is not the most optimal. Building muscle as a female is hard enough, adding more limitations will only make it more difficult.6 -
tlanger251 wrote: »
Carbs and protein are too low. Muscle is ONLY built from proteins and you need carbs to help with calories and anabolism if you're trying to gain muscle. Honestly, I'd look more at a 40% carbs/40% protein/20% fat ratio IF your intent is to put on muscle.tlanger251 wrote: »
Thanks, I guess if I am working out, I will be more hungry?? I hope to stick to 10% carbs/25% protein/65% fat
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Before I started doing the ketogenic diet, I was addicted to carbs and I struggled with binge eating for my whole life. I am afraid to eat carbs again. For the first time in my life I only eat when I'm hungry.. There are body builders/athletes who swear by the 10/25/65 macros... I don't know.. guess I will have to do more research about that.
I suppose it can be done, although it is not the most optimal. Building muscle as a female is hard enough, adding more limitations will only make it more difficult.
I just now read a great article that people on a keto diet should add carbs if they push themselves to the limit.. which it looks like you do. I doubt my ability to workout that hard, but we will see. If do increase carbs, maybe i will just add fruit, and/or black beans without adding pasta/bread/tortillas/etc.0 -
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Courtesy of Alan Aragon, who knows a thing or two about nutrition and training:
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When you're a lifter, you must embrace carbs. Can you gain muscles on keto, yea, but is it optimal...hell no. There's a reason why athletes are asked to carb up, imagine Michael Phelps eating the calories he's eating, but on keto...I highly doubt he would acheive what he acheived in his career. Mind you, you are not in a competition, so you can still get away with keto if you want, but you seem to hinder your potential by starving yourself (1300 calories is too low), by eating low protein and being on keto...
I'm not a lifter and I've never been in shape. I just lost 26 pounds after being overweight my entire life so Keto feels good right now. I do want muscle, but I'm afraid that if I start eating carbs again, there won't be a middle ground. I'm not sure what my potential is, but I'm afraid I will just get fat again.0 -
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Carbs do not make one fat or gain weight....too many calories in total does...I am not sure you are listening to what the other posters have said. So here it all is in summary, not too much science, but just straight forward speak:
You cannot gain muscle on those calories and doing those exercises. You are most likely (probably most definitely) going to lose muscle/lean mass this way (continuing to be in a deficit and eating low carb). Muscle gain is achieved via resistance training (lifting/moving heavy weights). Muscle gain is optimal on a surplus of calories (not overeating, just planning a certain caloric surplus) and via upping carbohydrates. You should be upping carbs in order to eat "normally" now in any case, diet break, maintenance and all that jazz (117lbs is pretty light).
I am thinking *facepalm* but in the hopes that maybe one more post might get through, here goes (hopefully something)...3 -
tlanger251 wrote: »When you're a lifter, you must embrace carbs. Can you gain muscles on keto, yea, but is it optimal...hell no. There's a reason why athletes are asked to carb up, imagine Michael Phelps eating the calories he's eating, but on keto...I highly doubt he would acheive what he acheived in his career. Mind you, you are not in a competition, so you can still get away with keto if you want, but you seem to hinder your potential by starving yourself (1300 calories is too low), by eating low protein and being on keto...
I'm not a lifter and I've never been in shape. I just lost 26 pounds after being overweight my entire life so Keto feels good right now. I do want muscle, but I'm afraid that if I start eating carbs again, there won't be a middle ground. I'm not sure what my potential is, but I'm afraid I will just get fat again.
If you're not a lifter and don't want to lift, which would be your choice, being on keto is fine, but don't expect any changes when it comes to building muscles and having that toned body look. Building muscles help that and you need to be in a caloric surplus + tension in your muscles that gives them a reason to grow and that comes from lifting something.
Congrats on losing the 26 lbs, but the mistake in your thinking is that keto is the reason you lost weight which is false. Keto was a tool that you used to be in a caloric deficit which directly caused you to lose weight. I specify this, because many people who do keto demonize carbs and think that they are the cause of any weight gain. That is not true. I just wanted to say that incase you are one who thinks that way too. I only mention this for informational purpose, if you enjoy keto, then by all means do keto. Just remember, keto is only a tool and if that's the tool that makes it easier and enjoyable for you to lose weight, then stay on keto. If you do want to build muscles, just remember, keto is not optimal, but I am sure you know that by now as there are a few of us who told you that in this thread.
Keto is what has allowed me to stay on a negative calorie diet.. because I don't crave sugar anymore. i could never stay on any diet for longer than a month when i was eating carbs... but yes, i hear you all. I hope I can get toned.. maybe i'll try carbs again.. but not now.. eating even 40 or 50 grams of carbs makes me so keto flu sick.. have to get through finals first. thanks everyone.. i have a much better of idea of what i need to do..2 -
To lose weight, eat fewer calories than you burn.
To gain muscle, eat slightly more calories than you burn, with a higher percentage of them coming from protein, and repeatedly lift / put down heavy things. Adjust how many extra calories you're eating, as well as the % from protein, until you start getting the results you want.
Those goals are contradictory.
(And to be healthy, eat a wide variety of foods from various sources.)2 -
tlanger251 wrote: »tlanger251 wrote: »When you're a lifter, you must embrace carbs. Can you gain muscles on keto, yea, but is it optimal...hell no. There's a reason why athletes are asked to carb up, imagine Michael Phelps eating the calories he's eating, but on keto...I highly doubt he would acheive what he acheived in his career. Mind you, you are not in a competition, so you can still get away with keto if you want, but you seem to hinder your potential by starving yourself (1300 calories is too low), by eating low protein and being on keto...
I'm not a lifter and I've never been in shape. I just lost 26 pounds after being overweight my entire life so Keto feels good right now. I do want muscle, but I'm afraid that if I start eating carbs again, there won't be a middle ground. I'm not sure what my potential is, but I'm afraid I will just get fat again.
If you're not a lifter and don't want to lift, which would be your choice, being on keto is fine, but don't expect any changes when it comes to building muscles and having that toned body look. Building muscles help that and you need to be in a caloric surplus + tension in your muscles that gives them a reason to grow and that comes from lifting something.
Congrats on losing the 26 lbs, but the mistake in your thinking is that keto is the reason you lost weight which is false. Keto was a tool that you used to be in a caloric deficit which directly caused you to lose weight. I specify this, because many people who do keto demonize carbs and think that they are the cause of any weight gain. That is not true. I just wanted to say that incase you are one who thinks that way too. I only mention this for informational purpose, if you enjoy keto, then by all means do keto. Just remember, keto is only a tool and if that's the tool that makes it easier and enjoyable for you to lose weight, then stay on keto. If you do want to build muscles, just remember, keto is not optimal, but I am sure you know that by now as there are a few of us who told you that in this thread.
Keto is what has allowed me to stay on a negative calorie diet.. because I don't crave sugar anymore. i could never stay on any diet for longer than a month when i was eating carbs... but yes, i hear you all. I hope I can get toned.. maybe i'll try carbs again.. but not now.. eating even 40 or 50 grams of carbs makes me so keto flu sick.. have to get through finals first. thanks everyone.. i have a much better of idea of what i need to do..
keto flu should not be happening if you are still eating keto that usually happens when one first starts out ,you get that because your body is depleted of glycogen,water,etc. what do you mean negative calorie diet? all food has calories. if you are eating and working out and netting 0 calories or netting negative numbers then you are losing lean mass/muscle for sure. you get toned from losing fat over any existing muscle.
if you are really eating negative amounts of calories after exercise then you are skinny fat and losing more weight is not going to help you look more toned.if eating that amount of carbs make you sick then I would say something else is at play causing it. you dont get keto flu increasing your carbs,if anything it would reverse it but again that should not be happening 6 months down the road.0 -
ha i meant calorie deficit.. and yes I am skinny fat. that is the problem-why I posted originally. cause i want to be toned.
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tlanger251 wrote: »ha i meant calorie deficit.. and yes I am skinny fat. that is the problem-why I posted originally. cause i want to be toned.
then eat at maintenance and do a recomp which can take 6 months or more. or do a bulk,gain some muscle and some fat, how much depends on your surplus,and then do a cut later.you cant get toned doing what you are and you need to eat more.you need to eat exercise calories back as well.do not net negative calories as its basically like not eating at all. and if you are afraid to gain weight talk to someone as gaining weight to build muscle to me is a different "demon" than gaining while not doing anything.you will accomplish something that way.2
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