Bulk and cut question

knittinlady

I've been lifting heavy and bulking for about two months, and I've seen some awesome muscle growth, but I'm also seeing some increase in fat as well. I understand the concept of bulking; that you need to eat more calories to fuel muscle growth. That part's easy. And I understand that with the weight gain, some of it is going to be fat. I have only gained a few pounds, but I'm a small person, and those pounds are clearly visible. I love the new muscle, but hate the new fat. I'm not looking to lose weight per se, just the fat.
So I'm looking for advice about cutting. I mean, I get that you eat at a deficit, but then do you also reduce the lifting? Or do you just continue lifting as usual, but without building more muscle, since muscle growth requires a calorie surplus? Am I overthinking this?

cwolfman13

You're over-thinking this.

xcalygrl

You're over-thinking this.

When you cut, you only change your diet to put you in a deficit. Continue lifting.

Chaskavitch

You're probably over-thinking it, especially if your bulk went as you planned it to I have never done a bulk/cut cycle, but my understanding is that you continue to lift as you have been to maintain your muscle, while eating at a bit of a deficit. You probably won't progress on your lifts, but if you cut back on the lifting you'll lose more muscle than you want to.

knittinlady

Thanks! I often overthink things. LOL

stevehawkins99

if you looking to cut you need to keep lifting heavy and ensure your getting enough protein to maintain the muscle you gained. you will need around 1g per 1lb of muscle to sustain it.

For the cut you need a calorie deficit (around 500 cals) but maintain the protein intake at 1g per 1lb.

so if you say 203lb and have 28% BF then you muscle weight would be around 147lb with 56lb of fat / water etc..

So you would need at least 147g of protein a day..

on a bulk i normally do a ration 60% carbs 30% protein 10% fats
on a cut I change to around 45% carbs 40% protein and 15% fats

Wheelhouse15

I would agree with the others that you are overthinking it. Unless you are on a specific routine, such as for a contest, you don't need to alter your exercise but only your diet. Have fun with the lifting!

Wheelhouse15

Chaskavitch wrote: »

You're probably over-thinking it, especially if your bulk went as you planned it to I have never done a bulk/cut cycle, but my understanding is that you continue to lift as you have been to maintain your muscle, while eating at a bit of a deficit. You probably won't progress on your lifts, but if you cut back on the lifting you'll lose more muscle than you want to.

Actually, it's possible that she could continue to gain even on a deficit since she is a newbie and newbie gains can be made even in a deficit. New strength gains are due more to improvement in muscle efficiencies rather than growth.

caesar164

Wheelhouse15 wrote: »

Chaskavitch wrote: »

You're probably over-thinking it, especially if your bulk went as you planned it to I have never done a bulk/cut cycle, but my understanding is that you continue to lift as you have been to maintain your muscle, while eating at a bit of a deficit. You probably won't progress on your lifts, but if you cut back on the lifting you'll lose more muscle than you want to.

Actually, it's possible that she could continue to gain even on a deficit since she is a newbie and newbie gains can be made even in a deficit. New strength gains are due more to improvement in muscle efficiencies rather than growth.

She would recomp on a deficit, if she indeed is still making noob gains; she shouldn't gain any weight on a true deficit..

Wheelhouse15

caesar164 wrote: »

Wheelhouse15 wrote: »

Chaskavitch wrote: »

You're probably over-thinking it, especially if your bulk went as you planned it to I have never done a bulk/cut cycle, but my understanding is that you continue to lift as you have been to maintain your muscle, while eating at a bit of a deficit. You probably won't progress on your lifts, but if you cut back on the lifting you'll lose more muscle than you want to.

Actually, it's possible that she could continue to gain even on a deficit since she is a newbie and newbie gains can be made even in a deficit. New strength gains are due more to improvement in muscle efficiencies rather than growth.

She would recomp on a deficit, if she indeed is still making noob gains; she shouldn't gain any weight on a true deficit..

True, you don't gain weight on a deficit, I was just referring to strength gains, which can be independent of muscle mass gain.

caesar164

You didn't specify that in your post.. Strength gains will also be minimal on a deficit...

maybebaby34

Can you guys explain this noobs gain? I am a month in and am gaining and loosing the same 5#, over and over. On a heavy lift leg day I gain 2# immediately. Im at 1300-1500 calories. I am seeing definate change in my body and inches. What gives? Does it balance out in due time?

spoiledpuppies

I'm no expert, but maybe lower your calories in your bulk. (I've been working to gain since about March. I've put on about 4 pounds, and almost all of it has been muscle. I started with a DEXA scan and a BIA scale on the same day. I've been using the BIA scale weekly, and I'm overdue for a follow-up DEXA.) Maybe you're just eating a bit more than you need for muscle building, and the excess is going to fat.

Wheelhouse15

caesar164 wrote: »

You didn't specify that in your post.. Strength gains will also be minimal on a deficit...

I thought I was clearer but I noticed I missed a few key words, so it's the difference between my head and keyboard sometimes. Yes, for most people that's true, for me it was different since I was on regain (was off for over a year) while I was losing weight I gained over 50% on bench and over 100% on deads and squats but that's still far below my PBs. Regains are a whole other topic though...

alva831cali

Good responses. I've been looking for a thread that better explains the cutting process. Stevehawkins99 mentioned above that for a cut you want to eat at a deficit of 500 Cals. Can anyone second this? or have different experiences? Also, should I increase my cardio during the cut to speed up the fat loss? or will I just loose the muscle?

Right now I've been "bulking" for 35 days. so far I've gained about 4lbs or so. I plan on continuing eating at a surplus until I gain about 20 lbs or so. Then consider cutting down at that point. I just want to make sure I do the cutting process correctly.

itsjustmish

I'm just finishing up my first bulk. I gained 7lbs in 18 weeks (I purposely did it *very* slowly to minimise fat gain). I'm small at 5'2" and have gone from 102.5lbs to 109.5lbs. I've obviously gained some fat, but it can't be all that much as my waist measurement has only increased by a tiny amount, I have abs which are visible in the right light (!), and I haven't outgrown any of my clothes ... though my jeans are tight round my thighs and bum because deadlifts and squats have worked their magic! I'll be taking final measurements tomorrow.
From next week I intend to move to maintenance for a couple of weeks to let some of the bloat go down and then I'll decide whether or not to do a very small cut to get rid of any remaining fluff. I certainly won't be doing a 500 calories deficit though as I like eating too much and will only have a few pounds to lose, it'll probably be more like 150-200 calories below maintenance for me. This should help retain as much muscle as possible as the more aggressive your deficit the more muscle you'll lose along with the fat.
I pretty much hate cardio, so I don't intend to add too much to my schedule. I'm going to continue lifting three times a week, and circuit training twice a week (which I did all through my bulk) and will add some extra 15-20 minute HIIT sessions a couple of times a week if I don't do so well losing with such a small deficit alone!

sijomial

caesar164 wrote: »

You didn't specify that in your post.. Strength gains will also be minimal on a deficit...

Not necessarily - depends on where people are starting from.
I went from benching 139lbs to 190lbs when in a small deficit over course of 6 months which is far from minimal.

SideSteel

Many people gain strength in a calorie deficit, especially beginners.

savannahburmeyy

You need to maintain lifting but start 'cutting' calories. You want to do this within a period of time not all at once or you will lose the muscle you have put on.

bulk_n_cut

thanks OP and those replying; this answered my own questions about cutting as well

Sarauk2sf

caesar164 wrote: »

You didn't specify that in your post.. Strength gains will also be minimal on a deficit...

Not necessarily. You can make strength gains on a deficit, the amount will depend on the size and length of the deficit, where you are in your lifting life, what your routine is and how you individually respond to everything.

Sarauk2sf

alva831cali wrote: »

Good responses. I've been looking for a thread that better explains the cutting process. Stevehawkins99 mentioned above that for a cut you want to eat at a deficit of 500 Cals. Can anyone second this? or have different experiences? Also, should I increase my cardio during the cut to speed up the fat loss? or will I just loose the muscle?

Right now I've been "bulking" for 35 days. so far I've gained about 4lbs or so. I plan on continuing eating at a surplus until I gain about 20 lbs or so. Then consider cutting down at that point. I just want to make sure I do the cutting process correctly.

The 500 calories is more a rule of thumb, but in general, there is nothing wrong with it. I prefer to look at it as a % of body weight - ranging from 0.5% if you are lean to 1.5% if very overweight.

Cardio is fine to do - but I would suggest sticking to moderate amounts of LISS. HIIT is also fine to do, but you need to balance the recovery time for this with your lifting.

kdiamond

When I was cutting I lifted the same but found I needed to reduce some weights as I just had less energy. Also make sure you do cardio after lifting.

My question to you is though - are you really ready to cut only 2 months in? I did a "mini" bulk that was 12 weeks and it wasn't enough to get the results I was aiming for. But I let the voice in my head get to me when I started gaining weight...