Conflicting info EVERYWHERE: Eating back exercise calories, or not? ? ? ? ?
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The sooner you stop giving a chit what other people think, the happier you'll be. If the know-it-alls and crabapples are disapproving, so what.SetFreeEmily wrote: »If you listen to all the fitness gurus, you will receive tons of different opinions. Whatever you want to do, there is some fitness guru out there to support it. Want to weigh 250 pounds? Someone will tell you it's quite healthy. Want to starve yourself for days? Someone else will tell why that's a good idea. Cut carbs, cut fat, no meat, junk food all the time - no matter WHAT you want to do, someone will tell you that's a good choice.
You have to make up your own mind about what you want to do.
A lot of people eat half back. I eat to my hunger. You have to do what is right for you.
Good luck.
So true. (unfortunately)
Thanks. I think because I 'dont know what Im doing' I was just looking for someone to give me permission to feel good about the choices I am making, in lieu of being told by everyone that I am 'wrong'.
Everyone does things differently, which makes life more interesting and more fun.
Agreed about not worrying about what other people think. But as you practice that, if it helps any I'll add another to the bandwagon of if your way works for you and you feel good then do it.
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This is what my doctor & dietician told me:
1 - Don't eat back exercise calories. Most people underestimate what they eat, most machines & computers overestimate calories burned.
2 - Eat 10x your healthy goal weight (based on BMI) in calories.
In reality, what I do is most of the time I'm doing both of those, but once in a while I go over, eat back some of my exercise calories, and I don't stress about it... because I'm usually well under. It's working for me.
(And don't worry too much about BMR. My total/actual calorie intake has been consistently under my BMR for months. Net is waaaaay under. My doctors are happy with my health, in every possible way.)
If that's what works for you, do it. Why listen to anyone else? You're feeling better, sleeping better, losing inches. Keep doing what you're doing!I've been really lacking energy lately, eating between 1375-1500 cals a day. I weigh 180lbs approx, and I work out 1 hr, 6 days a week.
I decided to 'trial' this eating less thing, and here's what's happened:
I have less energy, I am dragging my body to the gym and forcing my workouts, and my weight plateaued solidly. That was my whole month of Mid-Aug through Sept- eating 1250-1400 cals max, with the same workout schedule. It sucked.
Now it's October, and 'Im back to the way I was doing things before. After only 10 days my inches have dropped again; I'm not hungry, I'm sleeping better and have decent energy.
It was wrong of them to embarrass you & castigate you, especially in front of anyone else.In front of those friends, I was told I was doing things wrong, and that they would help me do it right and get better results. I was embarrassed and frustrated...
Someone give me some advice here - I don't want to talk to the people at my gym about it.
They're jerks.
I'd avoid them too. I might talk with the manager.
I'm guessing that they probably charge for their services, and that's why they're trying to tell you you need their help?
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If it ain't broke, don't fix it
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Well, they're also only fasting during daylight hours.WalkingAlong wrote:Studies of pro athletes who fast for Ramadan show their energy levels and performance don't suffer during fasts.
It's traditional to have feasts & parties late into the night, and eat a large breakfast before dawn, so they're probably getting about the same calories as usual, perhaps even more.
Think of it like the "OMAD" binge eating, only for religious purposes.
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tigersword wrote: »As I see it, I need to maintain a calorie deficit to lose weight - every calorie counts. I work hard to get a calorie deficit and I am not going to waste that hard work for a few seconds of eating pleasure. So no eating back any exercise calories for me.
If someone can come up with a science-verifiable reason why I MUST eat back my exercise calories, I will look at their evidence. Rumour, anecdotes, the guy at the gym, Aunt Flossie, TV shows, iffy web sites do not count as science-verifiable evidence.
Evidence? Easy. MFP is designed to have you eat back your exercise calories. The calorie deficit is already built into your calorie goal, before factoring in exercise.
OP the confusion you're experiencing is due to different methods of calculating calorie goals. MFP is set up with a deficit not including exercise, so you can lose weight without exercising. When you exercise, you add those calories back into keep a consistent deficit. People who don't use this site use a different method of calculating a calorie goal. That method includes exercise, so you wouldn't eat them back in that case. It's really six of one, half a dozen of the other, as both methods, when calculated correctly, should give about the same overall result.
This, and I think when people say their trainer or doctor said not to it's comparing apples and oranges as the calorie goal was arrived at differently.
Many (most?) trainers don't really know much about nutrition, though, so may not get that whether you eat exercise calories depends on how the goal was reached. To start with an aggressive goal based on a sedentary status and then exercise hard and not do anything to compensate is not the same as not eating back when your goal assumes you will be doing some exercise. I'm doing the latter now, and eating the same overall weekly calories, or thereabouts, as when I started with a lower goal and added exercise calories.
I hate how some seem to portray not eating back as being stronger or more virtuous. I know I wouldn't make the fitness advances I have -- which I care about -- if I didn't eat enough to fuel them.0 -
"Thanks for your concern, but I'm on a program that's working well for me."0
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Try the last. If that doesn't provide result. Try the middle. If that doesn't provide result, try the first.SetFreeEmily wrote: »-eating back NO exercise calories
-eating back some/a percentage of exercise calories
-eating back ALL your exercise calories (making your "Net" and "Goal" calories on MFP match)
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The trainers advice to eat a fixed amount and not log or eat back exercise calories is actually given, believed, and used by lots of members on here (TDEE method), but for me personally it just wouldn't motivate me or work for my psyche. Adding to everyone else that says you've done great work finding what works for you AND seeing progress. You seem to be eating enough - no need to change at all!0
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Do what works for you. Personally I've never eaten back exercise calories, and the trainers I've worked with have all been against eating back exercise calories, and they all suggest lots of protein.
My current trainer has suggested I do carb cycling, so I've been doing it for a month. I eat a lot of protein. He says not to worry about getting x amount of calories, just stick to the low carb foods, but I do track as that's what I've done for ages.
In the past I've gone for the low calories approach and just eaten a lot of salad mainly, and I lost weight that way too.
I also lost weight after my 2nd baby (66lbs) by working out my TDEE and subtracting a percentage and just eating healthily, with an emphasis on high protein. It worked really well, and I'd still be slim if I hadn't got pregnant again lol.
I think so long as you have a deficit and aren't eating above your carb/fat allowance it works.
Don't forget you said the others in your gym are 50 and 30lbs lighter than you, so they will need fewer calories anyway.0 -
It's not that there is conflicting advice- there are just two different distinct methods- it does appear confusing- but it's not that its' conflicting- there are just two separate methods.
NEET + eat back (which is what MFP uses)
or TDEE- which accounts for your level of acticvity through the week- and gives you a daily average.
The actual averages of both amount of caloires across a weekly basis will be roughly the same.
i.e. if I use MFP- and I set i at 1500- no workout- then I workout- I get about 1800.
i workout 3 x a week so that's 5,400 calories
add in the other 4 days at 1500 = 6,000.
5,400 + 6,000 = 11,400 calories for the week.
11,400/7 = 1,628 calories I average a day.
If I use the TDEE calculator and say I workout 3 times a week-
TDEE- 15% deficit = 1755 calories.
TDEE- 20% deficit =1655 calories.
See? They average out daily to about the same. TDEE essentially just takes the guess workout out of how much workouts are "worth" and means on your down days you get to eat a little more than if you were eating back workout calories.
The nice thing about TDEE- it means as long as you were honest about your level of activity when you plug the numbers in- (meaning you don't put extremely active and all you do is walk 3 times a week for 30 minutes)- you won't ever OVER guess yoru workouts- which is one of the most common problems with NEET/Eat Back... people over estimate workouts- and underestimate food- and they wind up with a much smaller deficit than they thought then they wonder why they weren't losing weight.
Downside- when you do extra work- or have a particularly brutal workout- you aren't going to be getting to eat more like you normally do.
either one is fine if you are honest with yourself- do what works for you.0 -
I agree with what many others have said; you found what works for you so, as long as you have enough energy to deal with your workouts and go about your normal daily business and are eating enough nutritious food to stay healthy then it's all good. Stick with it - honestly, I got so confused by the avalanche of conflicting opinions and information whenever I talked about dieting that I decided to quietly go about my business without talking about exactly how I'm doing it. The essence of it is consistency of effort with a calorie deficit and regular exercise. I choose not to spend my energy debating the details anywhere but in my own head.
Your body is the end game. Learning to listen to its needs is a skill I've finally started to develop and I'm loving the freedom to do what I know to be right for me.0 -
LosinMama1966 wrote: »
Try the last. If that doesn't provide result. Try the middle. If that doesn't provide result, try the first.SetFreeEmily wrote: »-eating back NO exercise calories
-eating back some/a percentage of exercise calories
-eating back ALL your exercise calories (making your "Net" and "Goal" calories on MFP match)
Why would she try any of these if the way she was doing it BEFORE was working perfectly and she was losing...did you even read the thread?
Did you even parse what I wrote?
I'll make it as simple as possible.
Go with one plan. Analyze it. If desired result is not gained then:
Go with the next plan. Analyze it. If desired result is not gained then:
Go with the next plan. Analyze it. If desired result is not gained... etc. etc. etc.
Basic logic, paired with performance analysis in order to find the appropriate course of action. It's pretty basic.0 -
LosinMama1966 wrote: »LosinMama1966 wrote: »
Try the last. If that doesn't provide result. Try the middle. If that doesn't provide result, try the first.SetFreeEmily wrote: »-eating back NO exercise calories
-eating back some/a percentage of exercise calories
-eating back ALL your exercise calories (making your "Net" and "Goal" calories on MFP match)
Why would she try any of these if the way she was doing it BEFORE was working perfectly and she was losing...did you even read the thread?
Did you even parse what I wrote?
I'll make it as simple as possible.
Go with one plan. Analyze it. If desired result is not gained then:
Go with the next plan. Analyze it. If desired result is not gained then:
Go with the next plan. Analyze it. If desired result is not gained... etc. etc. etc.
Basic logic, paired with performance analysis in order to find the appropriate course of action. It's pretty basic.
She had already said she had found what had worked for her and changed for other people and now she's BACK to the way that was working before so your post is NULL AND VOID...
Careful, LosinMama. You may displace me from the spot this user has assigned me as the "most negative user on MFP with no redeeming posts"
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LosinMama1966 wrote: »LosinMama1966 wrote: »
Try the last. If that doesn't provide result. Try the middle. If that doesn't provide result, try the first.SetFreeEmily wrote: »-eating back NO exercise calories
-eating back some/a percentage of exercise calories
-eating back ALL your exercise calories (making your "Net" and "Goal" calories on MFP match)
Why would she try any of these if the way she was doing it BEFORE was working perfectly and she was losing...did you even read the thread?
Did you even parse what I wrote?
I'll make it as simple as possible.
Go with one plan. Analyze it. If desired result is not gained then:
Go with the next plan. Analyze it. If desired result is not gained then:
Go with the next plan. Analyze it. If desired result is not gained... etc. etc. etc.
Basic logic, paired with performance analysis in order to find the appropriate course of action. It's pretty basic.
She had already said she had found what had worked for her and changed for other people and now she's BACK to the way that was working before so your post is NULL AND VOID...
Careful, LosinMama. You may displace me from the spot this user has assigned me as the "most negative user on MFP with no redeeming posts"
oh there is an award for that?? damnit- I didn't know- I'll have to try harder!!!0 -
Working-my-A**-off-Emily
great job
Yes Indeed, You are a prodigy..Sticking to what has been working..the confusion i see isnt all the advice..Its not understanding that for those whose metabolism mirrors or approximate the lab conditions for which the calories in and calories out system was created glitches in outcomes will result.
when CICO was first concocted it was a homogenous society..lab experiments back then were performed not on a mix race of people, not in the age of fast foods, not in atime where women were fully in the work force.. they were still at home waitng for hubby to get home to serve supper. In fact CICO was designed to protect the elites from having their homes ransacked because those without jobs were getting sick and tired of eating slop in the bread lines while they saw Henry Ford, Carnegie, Firestone, Post, kellogg flaunt their wealth and good eating. It was kool to flaunt wealth back then and it took its toll on those who were hungry...
It was kellogg Post and the a few Scientists at the Then yet formed FDA at the inner circle of the White House who came up with the recommended Daily allowance idea for non working moms
mean while fast forward 50 60 now 70 years the fitness craze came along, then dieting .CICO was now a died in the wool concept because while it calmed the very hungry natives about food quality and calorie sufficiency back then its reeking havoc on every dieting plan and persons following it today.
Your friends are simply a product of a hoodwinking thats been buried in the food diaries of history.
You are doing things right.. If i were to give you a tip..it would be to calculate your protein number [Pn#], measure your replenishment index [Rpndx%], so you can authenticate validate and verify the amount and frequency of whole food protein you need to keep your lipolytic enzyme counts up.. as once they hit their half life unwanted body fat results will stop all of a sudden..
This is another glitch yone of just 25 most prevalent you will and those like you will 100% fall victim too.
If you wnat to know more or need unbiased answers to debug the rest of the confusing info.. friend me..
Dances with Wow..I appreciate you using this forum to showcase what my book has identified with countless million of dieters..
helping you and those like you stop dieting do-overs
Indomitable life force through fitness is coming0 -
LosinMama1966 wrote: »LosinMama1966 wrote: »
Try the last. If that doesn't provide result. Try the middle. If that doesn't provide result, try the first.SetFreeEmily wrote: »-eating back NO exercise calories
-eating back some/a percentage of exercise calories
-eating back ALL your exercise calories (making your "Net" and "Goal" calories on MFP match)
Why would she try any of these if the way she was doing it BEFORE was working perfectly and she was losing...did you even read the thread?
Did you even parse what I wrote?
I'll make it as simple as possible.
Go with one plan. Analyze it. If desired result is not gained then:
Go with the next plan. Analyze it. If desired result is not gained then:
Go with the next plan. Analyze it. If desired result is not gained... etc. etc. etc.
Basic logic, paired with performance analysis in order to find the appropriate course of action. It's pretty basic.
She had already said she had found what had worked for her and changed for other people and now she's BACK to the way that was working before so your post is NULL AND VOID...
Careful, LosinMama. You may displace me from the spot this user has assigned me as the "most negative user on MFP with no redeeming posts"
oh there is an award for that?? damnit- I didn't know- I'll have to try harder!!!
Ha! We need a yelp style board where we can leave reviews for each other. Now that would be an amusing train wreck to watch.
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well I eat back my calories. I tried doing it the way a well trained PT/competitive bodybuilder told me, not eating back the calories and always eating the same amount calorie wise, I did lose but I also lost lean mass! so I switched back to eating my calories back and I actually managed to get some lean mass back while still losing fat! 0
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tigersword wrote: »As I see it, I need to maintain a calorie deficit to lose weight - every calorie counts. I work hard to get a calorie deficit and I am not going to waste that hard work for a few seconds of eating pleasure. So no eating back any exercise calories for me.
If someone can come up with a science-verifiable reason why I MUST eat back my exercise calories, I will look at their evidence. Rumour, anecdotes, the guy at the gym, Aunt Flossie, TV shows, iffy web sites do not count as science-verifiable evidence.
Evidence? Easy. MFP is designed to have you eat back your exercise calories. The calorie deficit is already built into your calorie goal, before factoring in exercise.
OP the confusion you're experiencing is due to different methods of calculating calorie goals. MFP is set up with a deficit not including exercise, so you can lose weight without exercising. When you exercise, you add those calories back into keep a consistent deficit. People who don't use this site use a different method of calculating a calorie goal. That method includes exercise, so you wouldn't eat them back in that case. It's really six of one, half a dozen of the other, as both methods, when calculated correctly, should give about the same overall result.
^^^ this
the confusion lies in the fact that there is more than one way to create a calorie deficit
the MFP method you have a calorie deficit before you exercise and you're supposed to eat back your exercise calories - if you don't eat back the exercise calories there's a danger your deficit will be too big and you'll suffer from issues like feeling tired, run down, starving hungry, prone to binge eating etc......
the TDEE method you have a calorie goal that already has your exercise calories factored in, so if you don't exercise, you won't get a big enough calorie deficit, and if you eat back your exercise calories you're basically eating your exercise calories twice and you'll lose your deficit.
In effect, you're eating back exercise calories with either method, just with the TDEE method they're already in your daily calorie goal.
You're doing the MFP method, and it's working for you so stick with it. Personally, I use the TDEE method (when logging, which I'm not currently) and don't log or eat back exercise calories because I find it such a PITA to calculate them accurately. But either method you end up eating around the same amount of calories, it's just calculated a different way. Use whichever one works for you.0
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