HELP: maintaining, hungry all the time, heavy lifting, activity levels: confused! (sorry long post)

lulubeber

Hi all,

I have been using MFP for seven months now, done a lot of reading but after all this time, I have ended up completely confused and need your advice on my daily calorie intake.

Here is my info:

5'1
SW: 130 lbs
CW: 111 lbs
GW: 108 lbs
BMR: between 1190 and 1300 depending on formula
Maintenance/TDEE/ still trying to figure it out, but anything between 1600-1900 (help!)

Note: For the past two months I have been maintaining around 111 lbs, am relatively happy with my weight, but would still like to lower my bodyfat %.

Here is my story, it might help some people in the same situation as me:

It took me about 5 months to lose 20 lbs with calorie restriction alone, netting around 1300 calories, doing no excercise whatsoever. Eating a low amount of calories was not too hard as my lifestyle was completely sedentary. I was very proud of my progress, untill I got close to my goal weight and discovered I didn't want to be skinny fat.

SO I decided to start excercising, for the first time in my life.


Two months ago I started working out on a regular basis and lifting weights (heavy stuff!). Since then, my body has started to change visually, becoming less flabby and more "muscular" or "toned", whatever you call it. This is great. But confusing.

First: I have no idea if I'm losing fat or putting on muscle, as I have been more or less maintaining ( I have maybe put on 2 pounds since my lowest weight after the 1300 calorie period, but I read that could be glycogen from the lifting and upping calories). I still have a layer of fat I'd like to get rid of though.

Second: Needless to say, when I started excercising, my appetite increased dramatically, so I upped my calories. This is when the real confusion began, as I basically decided I didn't necesserily want to lose more weight, but did want to change my body composition. Here is what happened for me when I began excercising:

At first, I got a little too excited about discovering heavy weight lifting and ate 2000 everyday for 2 weeks, even though I know lifting doesn't burn that many calories. Basically, I was bulking, put on about 4 lbs (probably quite a bit of fat there), and of course got freaked out about putting more fat on. So then, I tried to eat 1500 without eating back excercise calories for a while. This unfortunately ended up making me feel like I was starving (waaay more than when I was eating 1200 and doing nothing all day long). This was a bad plan, as I felt an unealthy restriction/binge cycle starting to set up (for the first time in my life I ended up eating 3000-4000 calories of muffins and peanut butter in one day after a week of "being good". At this point I got scared of developing an eating disorder, and I decided to stop logging for a couple of weeks. I think I was probably overeating then as well. Throughout all of this I was extra careful to get 100g protein and enough fiber, but always felt hungry.

Here is where I am now:

I have started logging again for the last 3 days, aiming for 1750. I have upped my fat intake (perhaps the low fat diet I was on was causing me to feel so hungry), and feel like I am neither starving nor overeating.

I am wondering if this amount is good for me. I don't want to starve, but would also like to keep a slight deficit to lose this last bit of fat. Basically, I am so confused at how much I should be eating.

Here is what my week looks like:

I get at least 30 minutes of brisk walking every day, and on top of that:

monday: 60 mins power yoga (challenging!)
tuesday: 60-90 mis weight lifting (heavy/full body/compound excercises)
wednesday: 45 mins running
thursday: 60 mins yoga
friday: 60-90 mins weights
saturday: 60 mins yoga or rest
sunday: 60 mins weights

I work very hard and am loving it, giving 200% and feeling exhausted but happy after my workouts.

Can anybody tell me how many calories I should aim for ? TDEE-20% feels like starvation. I am so confused I don't even understand what maintenance calories are anymore... If my maintenance calories are around 1750 for "moderately active", will I still lose fat while eating at this amount with my activiy level ? Should I eat less ? If I was sedentary, I would need around 1400 to maintain, but netting at 1400 also feels like starvation...

Any help is welcome,

note: I believe in IFFYM, but try to get as much good clean food as I can (lean meats, dairy, whole wheat carbs, plenty of fruit&veg), with special attention to getting enough protein. My diary is open ( but you'de have to look at the last 3 days or before the logging gap to get a realistic idea).

sorry about the excessively long post...

Have a lovely evening !

QueenBishOTUniverse

Honest answer, this is going to take some trial and error on your part. Plugging in your numbers at scoobys workshop I would say a calorie goal of 2000 a day might actually be ok for you, but there's only one way to confirm, and that's to give it a month or two and see what happens. If your weight goes up over that time you'll need to drop calories, if it stays stable you're probably good.

If your goal is to recomp (maintain weight but drop fat) then at most you should only be calorie restricting to TDEE - 5%, certainly NOT -20%. Given the workout routine you've described I would place your activity level at a fairly high amount and that combined with heavy lifting means it's not all that surprising you're dealing with some hunger issues. Upping the fat content was definitely a good call, fat is VERY important for increasing feelings of satiety.

You're going to feel hungry sometimes with lifting. I had a serious deadlift day today and even though I've hit my calorie goals already, I'll probably go to bed soon so I'm not tempted to placate my grumbling tummy. BUT, constant hunger is a sign that you should be eating more, basically my rule of thumb is if I'm starving for a week strait, I need more food and I up my calories.

alereck

I understand the uneasy feeling that comes from going from cutting into maintenance or a slow bulk. It’s so easy to measure progress when you are cutting, you look at the scale. Slow bulk or toning is much more complicated because the numbers on the scale won’t make such sense anymore. You will look better but your weight will fluctuate more and slowly increase.

I think you were doing fine at 2,000 calories. The four pounds you put on is not necessarily just muscle or fat, it can be water too. I think that since you’ve reached the decision that you want to look better and not reach a certain number on the scale you should step away from it for a while. I know it’s hard but you should measure your progress by taking pictures. Do it weekly and if you are not sure ask a friend to be honest and tell you how they think you look from one week to the other.

You have to change your mindset. You are working out a lot for someone who did not do any exercise a few months ago so no wonder you are hungry. Eat the amount of food that keeps your energy level at par with your needs and never go hungry, as you realized it’s not necessary. I think 1,750 is a good number; you say you feel satisfied so do that for a while and see how you feel and how you progress. If you don’t get the amount of muscle definition you want then increase by a few hundred calories for a few weeks, if you gain too much fat and feel uncomfortable then lower it.

Just one note on something I’ve noticed with my body. Since I’ve increased calorie intake and done a few bulk / cut mini cycles I’ve noticed that it only takes about a week of a lower calorie intake for my body to lean out again. I can drop the weight and the fat in less than two weeks easily by lowering my intake at about 300 calories. So I go for about a month at 2,000 then eat for a week to two weeks at 1,700 and I look pretty lean.
Don’t overthink it, leave the scale behind and enjoy your transformation. Good luck!

alereck

Just saw this on another post:
http://www.jcdfitness.com/2009/10/the-former-fat-boy-syndrome/

saphin

Maintenance can be a lot harder than losing so good luck. Try downloading one of the map my fitness tools (I cycle a lot so use map my ride) and linking this to my fitness pal. As you log your workouts, it will automatically update calories used so the two tools will work together to change your target to match your intake. Please remember to reset your activity level to match your job (for most office workers, this should be sedentary) so that the exersise bonus is correctly calculated.

Muscle is much denser than fat so with regular exersise you will look trimmer and even drop a dress size or two but may well weigh more. To monitor your progress, body composition scales are ideal, but taking body measurements such as waist, hips, thighs and upper arms should provide guidance when monitored for trends.

Looking at your exersise routines, you really need to increase your cardio. Try adding a 30 minute brisk walk every other day (or minimum 150 mins of slight breathlessness exersise a week) to make sure you have a fully balanced exersise routine.

Regarding hunger, it could be worth checking your fluid intake as your body can easily misinterpret thirst for hunger. Your new exersise routine will probably mean that your body uses more water than you are used to needing. Try adding two glasses of water one hour before each meal and see if that helps.

Remember that logging for only three days will not give you a good baseline. Log every day and look at two week trends rather than spot points to help sort out future difficulties.

steff274

Hey I have added you your a shorty like me no offence!! And also maintaining I am finding I have to pack in far more calories than I thought to support my lifestyle and gym activities.. My settings are very active my calories without excersize 2010

lulubeber

saphin wrote: »

Looking at your exersise routines, you really need to increase your cardio. Try adding a 30 minute brisk walk every other day

Remember that logging for only three days will not give you a good baseline. Log every day and look at two week trends rather than spot points to help sort out future difficulties.

thank you saphin, I know my post was long but as I said, I do already get 30 minutes of brisk walking in every day.

Also, I have logged consistently and religiously (everyday) for the past 7 months, to the point where I thought it was making me a little crazy, and where I was afraid of falling into an ED. The gap in my logging is therefore an extremely recent phenomenon and a punctual one, which lasted for about a week.

Thanks for the advice though, and to everybody else who has answered so far.

I'm still wondering if 1750 will have me maintaining or eating at a slight deficit though

lulubeber

steff274 wrote: »

Hey I have added you your a shorty like me no offence!! And also maintaining I am finding I have to pack in far more calories than I thought to support my lifestyle and gym activities.. My settings are very active my calories without excersize 2010

this is what confuses me : don't these 2010 calories already include the excercise ?

steff274

Nope although I did have it set to active and was losing not good!! there are general day activities that I don't count as excersize though I count my gym activities as excersize and riding my horse.. If I muck out the whole yard I count that as excersize and if I sweap for an hour or more that's also excersize I eat back some but not all of my excersize calories it's about finding the balance that works for you

lulubeber

So if you were sedentary you'd burn 2010 ? Wow, I am impressed ! I don't think I would ...

Anyone else have a suggestion for daily intake according to my activity level ?

arditarose

I have to come back to this later. I am also very confused about the same thing!

QueenBishOTUniverse

No one can give you a solid number on this, it really is trial and error. If 1750 has been working for you as far as keeping you from feeling hungry then you can start with that. BUT, the true test is what happens on the scale. If you eat at 1750 for a month and your weight goes up and measurements go up you'll probably want to reduce calories. If weight goes up slightly (or stays the same) but measurements are the same or go down, you're probably fine. If your weight goes down, then you're still in a deficit and need to up your calories. But no matter what, it's going to take time and trial and error. The best any person or system can do is give you a rough idea of your calorie intake, you have to test it out and see what works.

As I said, based on your numbers and activity level I would say you could get away with 2000 calories a day, but if you're more comfortable starting at 1750 then do that and see what happens in a month. This is a patience game, one month isn't going to make huge changes either way at this stage, but it will give you a better idea of where you're at.

*My numbers are based on TDEE method. With TDEE method, you do NOT eat back exercise calories unless you do activity above and beyond what was already listed when you ran your numbers.

mangogirl272727

For that kind of activity level certainly do not go below 1750. 2000 would be appropriate for recomp by estimations, but you will have to do some trial and error and adjust based on your body. You may very well even need more than 2000 to maintain with that activity level..I frankly think you are underestimating just how active you are. For reference, I am a 5'3" female and needed about 2300 to maintain when I was doing a similar amount of exercise. I would suggest you step away from the scale actually...your aesthetic and fitness goals have very little to do with weight at this point, and it seems that the scale is playing mind games with you now. Keep measurements, pictures, and try to get your body fat percentage measured and go by these indications instead. I would probably suggest starting at 2000 and seeing in 2-3 weeks where you are at. Remember the weight is not important so long as you are healthy and feeling confident in your skin.

sijomial

"Can anybody tell me how many calories I should aim for ?"

Everybody can have an opinion but none of them will be as useful as your opinion and your data!
Pick a number that feels right for you, stick to it consistently for 4 weeks minimum. Then assess your results and make small adjustments if required.

What not to do is keep jumping around from one method to another, logging to not logging, one calorie amount to another, swinging from maintaining to large deficit. No wonder you are confused.
Keep it simple if you want maintenance to be sustainable and enjoyable.

QueenBishOTUniverse

sijomial wrote: »

"Can anybody tell me how many calories I should aim for ?"

Everybody can have an opinion but none of them will be as useful as your opinion and your data!
Pick a number that feels right for you, stick to it consistently for 4 weeks minimum. Then assess your results and make small adjustments if required.

What not to do is keep jumping around from one method to another, logging to not logging, one calorie amount to another, swinging from maintaining to large deficit. No wonder you are confused.
Keep it simple if you want maintenance to be sustainable and enjoyable.

Why flags but no like button option MFP!!!!! WHY!!!!

Springfield1970

Find your tdee by weighing, measuring everything, recording your weight and watching it for a few weeks. Try and stabilise. Scooby is pretty good.

I burn fat off at -10% over weeks and months! as I can't stand being hungry and it is the least painful way for me?

steff274

[/quote]

this is what confuses me : don't these 2010 calories already include the excercise ? [/quote]

Atm I'm trialing this it has only been a week I need to do something because on what I was 1830 for active I dropped to my lowest weight.. I am generally active and there is stuff I don't log that does burn up calories.. If I gain a couple of pounds atm it will be a good thing my waist 24 jeans are loose atm my mum and sister thought I had an eating disorder so yer not fun!! I think I was just under estimating my calorie burn and not eating nearly enough back.. Sure you will get there hopefully me too!! I honestly feel like atm am eating enough to make anyone fat!! apart from me!!

lulubeber

sijomial wrote: »

"
Pick a number that feels right for you, stick to it consistently for 4 weeks minimum. Then assess your results and make small adjustments if required.

What not to do is keep jumping around from one method to another, logging to not logging, one calorie amount to another, swinging from maintaining to large deficit. No wonder you are confused.

thank you everybody for your advice.

I will stick with 1750 as it suits me ATM. I will do this for 4 weeks, and come back and tell you what happened

You're right... I shouldn't overthink this and change my plan every two weeks !

Laura3BB

Please do come back to update us!