Any benefit to two a days? Lifting?
Hornsby
Posts: 10,322 Member
So ride a bike in the warmer months for cardio. I usually lift during my lunch hour and ride a bike after work to get my heart going. Well the winter months are approaching, and I admit, I am a fair whether rider. I am trying to come up with a new plan for winter. I want to focus more on lifting over the winter and have come up with a plan to do so but want to make sure it's "okay".
So when lifting, I know you need rest days. Currently I do something like chest and arms (Sun, Tuesday, Thursday) and shoulders and back (Mon, Wednesday, Friday). I vary weekly on which body parts I pair together. My thoughts for the winter were to keep that workout the same, and lift heavy during lunch like I have been doing. Then after work, go to the gym near my house and do super sets of the same body parts that were worked during the lunch break. Of course, i will throw in 20-30 of cardio as well after work. Is that too much? Is there any benefit to adding a bit of super sets? This was suggested to me by my best friend who knows his stuff but I wanted to run it by everyone just to see their thoughts.
Leg day would still remain on Saturday and I always throw in a dead lift day somewhere along the way.
So when lifting, I know you need rest days. Currently I do something like chest and arms (Sun, Tuesday, Thursday) and shoulders and back (Mon, Wednesday, Friday). I vary weekly on which body parts I pair together. My thoughts for the winter were to keep that workout the same, and lift heavy during lunch like I have been doing. Then after work, go to the gym near my house and do super sets of the same body parts that were worked during the lunch break. Of course, i will throw in 20-30 of cardio as well after work. Is that too much? Is there any benefit to adding a bit of super sets? This was suggested to me by my best friend who knows his stuff but I wanted to run it by everyone just to see their thoughts.
Leg day would still remain on Saturday and I always throw in a dead lift day somewhere along the way.
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In for answers - my gut reaction though is that you're flirting with overtraining.0
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Judging by your calves, I'm sure you can handle it. Um, I dunno know much, but I do know that bodybuilders training for competition do 2-a-days training. I say if you your heart desires it and you have nothing better to do, go for it. Try it out and see what happens.0
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I Crossfit and lift on the same day 3-5x per week with no problem. Often my CF workouts include lifting components. I think you just have to work up to that kind of volume to let your body adjust. If you are going to include this kind of volume, you need to take your recovery seriously too: good sleep, good hydration, mobility work, etc.
Bodies are very adaptable. I sometimes work with some oly coaches who have people on the national team and their serious competitive folks squat NINE sessions per week, including every day they work out.0 -
That schedule has you lifting 7 days a week. Even if it's different body parts, it's still way too much. I think you would be best just to lift heavy 4-5 days a week and if you want to add some gym cardio in later that's up to you. I don't think it's necessary to do the supersets later in the day. Focus on compound moves and a few accessories and you should be good to go. There is a thing as too much - especially when it comes to lifting. Your body needs rest and recovery.0
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I personally like to do shoulders and chest on the same day, since you're using a lot of the same muscles when doing OHP as you do with bench. If you alternate between chest/arms and shoulders for 6 days, you're basically hitting triceps (and shoulders to a degree as well) 6 days in a row. It's fine to do chest and shoulders on separate days, but I'd stretch it out a bit more and don't put them back to back.
My gut though says to train harder and less frequently, as I don't think you can keep up that schedule if you're really fatiguing your muscles in every workout and assuming natty recover times. The simple thing to do is to follow a program or at least base it off of a program. You might take a look at Wendler's 5/3/1, as it's similar to what you're saying in some ways.0 -
It all depends on the type of lifting you are doing. First off I see no legs thrown in there. Do you train legs? Based off of your example splits you are more in a hypertrophy style of lifting is what it looks like, meaning lower weight but high volume. If that is the case as long as you are seeing gains and not experiencing injuries or lack motivation then go for it. Now if you are doing more of a powerlifting / strength regimen I would suggest at least a days rest btwn trainings days IMO. When you get up in the really high weight if the body does not recovery fully risk of injury happens. I compete in a sport called inline speed skating and here is my schedule during the season:
Monday - Skate (2hrs)
Tuesday - Lift Heavy
Wednesday - Skate (2hrs)
Thursday - Lift Heavy
Friday - Off
Saturday Skate (1.5hrs am) / Lift Heavy pm
Sunday - Skate (2hrs)
Now during peak season I will throw in there some form of cardio in the am but not much more then that. With my work schedule my body would not be able to handle much of that for more then 6-8 weeks,
To wrap it up in general just listen to your body and the looks in the mirror. If gains are still being made just keep doing it.0 -
kellyemontana wrote: »I Crossfit and lift on the same day 3-5x per week with no problem. Often my CF workouts include lifting components. I think you just have to work up to that kind of volume to let your body adjust. If you are going to include this kind of volume, you need to take your recovery seriously too: good sleep, good hydration, mobility work, etc.
Bodies are very adaptable. I sometimes work with some oly coaches who have people on the national team and their serious competitive folks squat NINE sessions per week, including every day they work out.
I agree on the body's adaptability. It very much depends on all factors you mentioned, sleep, hydration, nutrition, etc. People that burn out are missing part(s) of the equation. I was surprised I was able to do max lifts Saturday after doing high-volume workouts Thursday and Friday... I didn't think I was rested enough, but my body handled it. Deadlifts two days in a row. I also believe time is a factor. People that have been training intensely for some time (years even) have built up their stamina.0 -
Yes, I train my legs on Saturday usually. I might sprinkle in some basic leg work on rest periods from other exercises, but mostly I do legs on Saturday.
My regimen starts with a weight I can do comfortably about 8-10 times. (last rep is a struggle). Then I add weight until I get to maxing out on my 3-5th rep on the last set (5 sets total). So whatever you call that? I don't know. lol.
I've been seeing gains over the last few months, and lots of fat disappearing. I'm basically doing a recomp though and don't plan to change from that. I know it's slow, but my mind isn't ready to do a true bulk.0 -
OK... 1 "Overtraining" Look this up, CT Fletcher has a good answer to this.. It's just One of those "PT\Trainer" Terms.... That's just a personal Rant though...
I'd certainly gamble on saying that, if you've genuinely lifted heavy at lunch, then your only going to be doing Supersets (SS) at a lot lower than you can.....
2 - In saying that... I'd certainly not recommend a heavy session at Lunch, and then a SS set later on, on the same body part....
You could get away with Lunch = Heavy Deadlifts, Later = Back work. Not so easy on Squats (Obviously, being that heavy squats work the WHOLE Leg\Lower...)
Bench Heavy Could be followed by Tri\Chest Iso work SS, Again, Heavy Bench would take away from this IMHO...
How about Mixing it up?
Say Day 1 - Lunch = Heavy Lower, Late = SS Upper, Day 2 - Lunch = Heavy Upper, Late = SS Assistance, Day 3 - Lunch = Heavy Squat, Late = SS Upper .... etc etc..
That way, Upper\Lower gets a good rest between heavy sessions, AND SS Sessions?0 -
If overall volume is reasonable, it's probably fine. That said, it sounds like you're overdoing it. Focus on quality over quantity, and your upper-lower body balance is way off.0
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My legs are fine though. I don't care if they never change from where they are now. I'm basically just trying to maintain them at this point.0
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chest/tris, back/bis, legs and shoulders (or added to chest day) is how I would brek it up since chest exercises (and shoulder) also tax your tris and back your bis0
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Interesting.kellyemontana wrote: »I Crossfit and lift on the same day...
I think this is the first time I've seen CF referred to as something aside from lifting. Why the differentiation?
Hornsby - You can probably handle it man, but you might need to just try it an analyze how you're doing over a few week period. You might need to build in more rest time.
Personally, I'm sticking my bike on my trainer, and going to town during the winter. Not something you're interested in doing? Netflix has a big log of movies...
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I'd be curious how your two-per-day training impacts your ability to increase in strength over time.
Just looking at this practically, when given the choice to:- Train the same bodypart again
- Train something else
- Rest
I would just question the scenarios where training the same bodypart again leads to optimal results.
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I'd be curious how your two-per-day training impacts your ability to increase in strength over time.
Just looking at this practically, when given the choice to:- Train the same bodypart again
- Train something else
- Rest
I would just question the scenarios where training the same bodypart again leads to optimal results.
I was thinking the same...0 -
If looking at training in a min/max manner, it would probably not be possible to generate optimal benefit in that matter.
However, I could see where if someone was training for endurance. It might be beneficial. Also, when I mean endurance I mean something far more than an olympic triathlon, more like climbing el cap., an expedition style attack on liberty ridge of Rainier, etc.0 -
Seriously, thanks to everyone. Like I said, my best friend suggested I do this and I tend to listen to him as he is pretty ridiculous. You guys have swayed me though to think about something else. Hell, I don't know. I am making this too confusing in my head. lol.0
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I did a twofer yesterday, heavy arm session in the morning, swim at night.
I could only muster 30 minutes in the pool, I was fully and completely gassed to a degree I have not been outside of an alpine climb.0 -
I did a twofer yesterday, heavy arm session in the morning, swim at night.
I could only muster 30 minutes in the pool, I was fully and completely gassed to a degree I have not been outside of an alpine climb.
doing a lift and cardio the same day isn't the same as lifting twice in the same day. I do cardio/lift splits all the time- that's quiet common- I couldn't imagine doing two lifts on the same day- it's just doesn't seem like its going to lead to long term productive results.0 -
I'm just talking to what was left in the tank. I know I wouldn't have been able to do a second arm set yesterday, not with any intensity at all.0
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Okay, I thought of another question about all this.
My lunch workouts are heavy. They really are. Whatever workout I am doing I start with a weight I can do about 8 on where the 8 is very hard, but doable. Then I add weights each set moving forward till I max out on the 5th set with only 1-3 reps depending. Firstly, is that not the right way to go about?
Secondly, if I add supersets in the afternoon workout using the same parts, obviously I would have to use less weight than I would if I was fresh, but if you still max out, even if the weights are lower, do you get the same effect? Is maxing out, maxing out? Or does the amount of weight have an influence? I would think your muscles can't tell the difference, but I'm not sure.
Hope that makes sense.0 -
Rather than doing them on the same day, you might consider trying something like PHAT where you have a hypertrophy day and a power day each week. I think Lane's program is something like:Day 1: Upper Body Power
Day 2: Lower Body Power
Day 3: Rest
Day 4: Back and Shoulders Hypertrophy
Day 5: Lower Body Hypertrophy
Day 6: Chest and Arms Hypertrophy
Day 7: Rest
That would give you a) a proven program to follow and b) lots of training every week, which it looks like you enjoy and which your current program also includes.
Personally, I'm not sure what working out the same muscles later in the day would accomplish that doing those same exercises in a single workout wouldn't accomplish.0 -
I'm not sure either. The main reason I want to is because I only have about 45 minutes for lunch workout. In my head (not saying it's right, but it's my thinking), going after work is basically just a continuation of the workout from lunch with a little break in the middle. Lol.
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I'm not sure either. The main reason I want to is because I only have about 45 minutes for lunch workout. In my head (not saying it's right, but it's my thinking), going after work is basically just a continuation of the workout from lunch with a little break in the middle. Lol.
I have to do this sometimes. I do a basic alternating upper/lower body split 3x/week, but sometimes I have less time in the evenings then I need. So I might knock out my OHP and row (for example) in the AM, then do the remainder of my upper body workout that night.
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Why not just do cardio in the gym in place of your bike riding outside. Throw in some cardio and ab work if you are looking to lift more. Injuries suck. I am nursing a shoulder injury from doing shoulder press variations with only 1 day rest in between. I have not hit any over head shoulder presses now for last 2 months. Truly aggravating. Everyone is different, but I would not recommend training a body part without a couple days rest in between. Just my 2 cents worth.0
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Outside cardio is the best. Two days a week of strength training is great to supplement the cardio. Have fun with it.
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Wish there was more info on if there was a benefit or not. I do know some guys that have very physically demanding jobs and then hit the gym after for the heavy lifting. They dont seem to suffer from any over training but also dont seem to be farther along than anyone else. They do get to eat more than me so that makes me jealous.
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