Someone PLEASE explain why the last 10lbs are harder then the first?
KKishaA
Posts: 160 Member
My mind can't wrap it's self around this concept lately. I'm beginning to believe it is more of a psychological issue then physical - at least in my case. If it's calories in vs. out, which I believe that it is, why are the last 10lbs so diffucult? Sure, you may weigh less so you burn less, and you may have adapted to your exercise but those are things you can change once you are aware of them.
Why is it recommended to cut our deficit to .5 lb loss per week as we get close to goal? To learn maintenance or are there real issues with losing muscle mass when your body fat is normal - even if you have adequate protein in your diet?
Why is it recommended to cut our deficit to .5 lb loss per week as we get close to goal? To learn maintenance or are there real issues with losing muscle mass when your body fat is normal - even if you have adequate protein in your diet?
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It's a mixture of this, I believe, plus a larger deficit could run you the risk of not eating enough/getting enough nutrients to keep your body healthy.0
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A few reasons...
- most people lose motivation as they get closer to goal weight
- most people don't adjust (calories, exercise, expectations) as they progress
- the leaner you get, the more your body will try to hold onto weight
To your second questions... yes, all of those reasons.0 -
A few reasons...
- most people lose motivation as they get closer to goal weight
- most people don't adjust (calories, exercise, expectations) as they progress
- the leaner you get, the more your body will try to hold onto weight
To your second questions... yes, all of those reasons.
So overall it's mental excluding the body holding onto weight. The body holding on to weight part is what confuses me. Because if you hold your deficit the body has to lose weight, right? And I would think a larger one would force the body to do vs a small one. I'm not doing this btw, I like to eat.0 -
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It's just math; logical and physiological. There is nothing special with the last pounds, but at a lower weight you'll have less wiggle room. A constant calorie deficit for a constant weight loss demands constantly lowering the calorie intake. The last pounds are typically harder to shed than the first pounds, just because eating very little is hard for most people. To reach a low weight, you have to either endure a proportionally large calorie deficit, or have a smaller deficit for a longer time.0
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For me it's easy... I'm way hungrier.0
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A few reasons...
- most people lose motivation as they get closer to goal weight
- most people don't adjust (calories, exercise, expectations) as they progress
- the leaner you get, the more your body will try to hold onto weight
To your second questions... yes, all of those reasons.
So overall it's mental excluding the body holding onto weight. The body holding on to weight part is what confuses me. Because if you hold your deficit the body has to lose weight, right? And I would think a larger one would force the body to do vs a small one. I'm not doing this btw, I like to eat.
Yes and no. Your body will burn lean muscle, which in turn will lower your BMR, so if you have a "large" deficit with not much to lose your BMR will decrease meaning your deficit is smaller than you think meaning slower weight loss. That and without a lot of fat to lose your body will also start shutting down non life sustaining functions, you can notice weak brittle nails, loss of or thinning hair, all of this to essentially lower BMR even more0 -
kommodevaran wrote: »It's just math; logical and physiological. There is nothing special with the last pounds, but at a lower weight you'll have less wiggle room. A constant calorie deficit for a constant weight loss demands constantly lowering the calorie intake. The last pounds are typically harder to shed than the first pounds, just because eating very little is hard for most people. To reach a low weight, you have to either endure a proportionally large calorie deficit, or have a smaller deficit for a longer time.
Not quite, with only 10 lbs to go you will probably eating more than when you had 30 lbs/lose, it is your deficit that should be smaller, not your caloric intake.0 -
If you set your goal another 10 lbs. lower, it's not the last 10 lbs. is it? Now it's 20 lbs.
It's a mental issue.0 -
It is true that as you weigh less your body needs less calories in. But I don't agree with a poster above who said that your body will "try to hold on to weight" the leaner you get.
As you get healthier and exercise more, your body become more EFFICIENT at using the calories you take in. Becoming more efficient at using those calories, even though the calories are still low means harder to lose that last bit of weight. Your body uses as much of those calories you're taking in as possible because you've taught it to be a better machine and utilize its inputs better. Which is really good!!
You should adjust your calories for the 0.5lb loss per week because you don't need a large deficit. That is when your body will begin to hold on to as much input as possible because you aren't feeding it enough. When you feed it enough those last few pounds will come off, slowly but surely! Don't think that a larger calorie deficit is the answer. It's not. Slow and steady wins the race.
And if you're weight lifting, don't forget your body composition could change (more muscle less fat) and your weight won't shift dramatically. So when it comes to the last 10lbs it's recommended you use a measuring tape, pictures, the way those "perfect weight" pants feel when you put them on, etc...0 -
A few reasons...
- most people lose motivation as they get closer to goal weight
- most people don't adjust (calories, exercise, expectations) as they progress
- the leaner you get, the more your body will try to hold onto weight
To your second questions... yes, all of those reasons.
So overall it's mental excluding the body holding onto weight. The body holding on to weight part is what confuses me. Because if you hold your deficit the body has to lose weight, right? And I would think a larger one would force the body to do vs a small one. I'm not doing this btw, I like to eat.
It's both. As with most things, there is a physical and a mental component.
Ultimately, yes, you're right. When talking about simple weight loss, a larger deficit will force the body to respond, and to respond more quickly/extremely. If someone simply wants to lose 10lbs, then go for the biggest deficit you can sustain. But most people, especially when the get closer to goal weight, decide that appearance matters as much if not more than the number on the scale, and they start talking about muscles, definition, or looking toned. This is all tied to body composition, which is negatively impacted by large, sustained deficits.0 -
NeverCatchYourBreath wrote: »It is true that as you weigh less your body needs less calories in. But I don't agree with a poster above who said that your body will "try to hold on to weight" the leaner you get.
As you get healthier and exercise more, your body become more EFFICIENT at using the calories you take in. Becoming more efficient at using those calories, even though the calories are still low means harder to lose that last bit of weight. Your body uses as much of those calories you're taking in as possible because you've taught it to be a better machine and utilize its inputs better. Which is really good!!
You should adjust your calories for the 0.5lb loss per week because you don't need a large deficit. That is when your body will begin to hold on to as much input as possible because you aren't feeding it enough. When you feed it enough those last few pounds will come off, slowly but surely! Don't think that a larger calorie deficit is the answer. It's not. Slow and steady wins the race.
And if you're weight lifting, don't forget your body composition could change (more muscle less fat) and your weight won't shift dramatically. So when it comes to the last 10lbs it's recommended you use a measuring tape, pictures, the way those "perfect weight" pants feel when you put them on, etc...
Can you, or anyone else, clarify/elaborate on this? I don't understand this... seems like you're contradicting yourself. Also, I don't understand how the body gets more efficient as using calories.0 -
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I guess the way I feel about it has evolved over time.... when it gets to those last 10 lbs.... the actual scale weight shouldn't really be the focus. I'd focus more on things like gaining strength, and improving my conditioning. If the caloric intake is at appropriate levels, the secondary results should yield a lower scale weight. Try moving the focus to something else... it just takes time at the end to see a drop in those last 10, if that's the goal. Worst case scenario, you'll end up looking like you've dropped the last 10-- which truly is the goal, right?0
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As you get leaner you have a smaller margin of error. Usually those "last 10 lbs" are vanity lbs and isn't really necessary to lose. People can't get past that stage but are willing to stop trying because at that point they'd already be in a healthy weight range.
With those last few lbs accuracy and consistency because more important than ever. You can lose a bunch of weight without being accurate as long as you're in a deficit but like I said above, with less fat that margin begins to disappear.
The deficit needs to be smaller because at that stage in the game you have to realize that your body will only oxidize a certain amount of fat a day. It will need to pull energy out of somewhere. Your maintenance will usually be lower than before you lost all the weight and having a deficit that is to large can weigh on your satiety, energy levels and adherence.
Adequate protein levels and resistance training will aid in lbm retention but you can't count on over consumption of protein to fully prevent the lbm lose. Increase protein beyond certain levels aren't going to accelerate MPS.
^^This. I'm still 25 lbs. from the end and I'm starting to run into this already. If I eat too little, I gain weight (that angers a lot of people who insist that a larger deficit will cause a larger loss and that one will never gain weight from eating too little, but I observed a weight gain for 4 weeks after cutting calories too low. As soon as I raised calories to a smaller deficit, I lost it again). The "window" of how many calories can cause weight loss starts to become small, and so if you unwittingly go outside of that window, you will gain weight or stall. One must be extremely precise in measuring and this is when weight loss is not just in the kitchen - heavier people can lose weight usually just by eating less because they require more energy just for every day sedentary activities such as working a desk job. As you get closer to your goal, you will need to not only eat the right amount (above RMR, but below total expenditure), but you will also need to exercise more in order to increase calories expended.0 -
They arent. A pound is a pound. Admittedly, when you weigh less, your calorie allowance drops, but you would have developed an appetite for this over time.0
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midwesterner85 wrote: »As you get leaner you have a smaller margin of error. Usually those "last 10 lbs" are vanity lbs and isn't really necessary to lose. People can't get past that stage but are willing to stop trying because at that point they'd already be in a healthy weight range.
With those last few lbs accuracy and consistency because more important than ever. You can lose a bunch of weight without being accurate as long as you're in a deficit but like I said above, with less fat that margin begins to disappear.
The deficit needs to be smaller because at that stage in the game you have to realize that your body will only oxidize a certain amount of fat a day. It will need to pull energy out of somewhere. Your maintenance will usually be lower than before you lost all the weight and having a deficit that is to large can weigh on your satiety, energy levels and adherence.
Adequate protein levels and resistance training will aid in lbm retention but you can't count on over consumption of protein to fully prevent the lbm lose. Increase protein beyond certain levels aren't going to accelerate MPS.
^^This. I'm still 25 lbs. from the end and I'm starting to run into this already. If I eat too little, I gain weight (that angers a lot of people who insist that a larger deficit will cause a larger loss and that one will never gain weight from eating too little, but I observed a weight gain for 4 weeks after cutting calories too low. As soon as I raised calories to a smaller deficit, I lost it again). The "window" of how many calories can cause weight loss starts to become small, and so if you unwittingly go outside of that window, you will gain weight or stall. One must be extremely precise in measuring and this is when weight loss is not just in the kitchen - heavier people can lose weight usually just by eating less because they require more energy just for every day sedentary activities such as working a desk job. As you get closer to your goal, you will need to not only eat the right amount (above RMR, but below total expenditure), but you will also need to exercise more in order to increase calories expended.
What do you propose would happen if you continued to eat "too few" calories?
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In addition to some of the previous comments, as you near your weight loss goal you are presumably also near the tail end of a dieting phase. Adherence generally goes in the tank, logging and measuring practices can get questionable, stress hormones can elevate, leptin can decrease, energy expenditure can decrease from being lower in weight and an additional small adaptive component, proportionately less fat is available for oxidation, and all of these factors can collectively manifest into a situation where losing fat just becomes more difficult to do.
You have generally fewer calories to work with, you have a lower sensible limit as far as the rate at which you should lose weight, appetite increases, stress can increase from long term dieting, and it just basically sucks a hell of a lot more than it did when you started.
And the adherence/compliance piece is huge.0 -
-How can someone gain weight by eating too little? If that were true no one would ever starve to death.midwesterner85 wrote: »As you get leaner you have a smaller margin of error. Usually those "last 10 lbs" are vanity lbs and isn't really necessary to lose. People can't get past that stage but are willing to stop trying because at that point they'd already be in a healthy weight range.
With those last few lbs accuracy and consistency because more important than ever. You can lose a bunch of weight without being accurate as long as you're in a deficit but like I said above, with less fat that margin begins to disappear.
The deficit needs to be smaller because at that stage in the game you have to realize that your body will only oxidize a certain amount of fat a day. It will need to pull energy out of somewhere. Your maintenance will usually be lower than before you lost all the weight and having a deficit that is to large can weigh on your satiety, energy levels and adherence.
Adequate protein levels and resistance training will aid in lbm retention but you can't count on over consumption of protein to fully prevent the lbm lose. Increase protein beyond certain levels aren't going to accelerate MPS.
^^This. I'm still 25 lbs. from the end and I'm starting to run into this already. If I eat too little, I gain weight (that angers a lot of people who insist that a larger deficit will cause a larger loss and that one will never gain weight from eating too little, but I observed a weight gain for 4 weeks after cutting calories too low. As soon as I raised calories to a smaller deficit, I lost it again). The "window" of how many calories can cause weight loss starts to become small, and so if you unwittingly go outside of that window, you will gain weight or stall. One must be extremely precise in measuring and this is when weight loss is not just in the kitchen - heavier people can lose weight usually just by eating less because they require more energy just for every day sedentary activities such as working a desk job. As you get closer to your goal, you will need to not only eat the right amount (above RMR, but below total expenditure), but you will also need to exercise more in order to increase calories expended.
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i'm really struggling with the last bit of weight too. i was wondering if your body comes used to the amount of training you do etc.. even though every day at the gym i push myself that bit harder or go faster, maybe my body has just had enough and wants to leave me like this.0
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I think he/she means a more efficient use of calories is a body that uses fewer (not more, think of efficient cars and gas), and that as you restrict more, your body uses fewer calories by reducing activity levels. I wouldn't call that "holding onto input because you aren't feeding it enough", though. Your BMR doesn't change and you may not even reduce your exercise levels but your NEAT levels change (non-exercise activity thermogenesis). Studies find that when you quit restricting, your calorie burn levels go back to normal.NeverCatchYourBreath wrote: »It is true that as you weigh less your body needs less calories in. But I don't agree with a poster above who said that your body will "try to hold on to weight" the leaner you get.
As you get healthier and exercise more, your body become more EFFICIENT at using the calories you take in. Becoming more efficient at using those calories, even though the calories are still low means harder to lose that last bit of weight. Your body uses as much of those calories you're taking in as possible because you've taught it to be a better machine and utilize its inputs better. Which is really good!!
You should adjust your calories for the 0.5lb loss per week because you don't need a large deficit. That is when your body will begin to hold on to as much input as possible because you aren't feeding it enough. When you feed it enough those last few pounds will come off, slowly but surely! Don't think that a larger calorie deficit is the answer. It's not. Slow and steady wins the race.
And if you're weight lifting, don't forget your body composition could change (more muscle less fat) and your weight won't shift dramatically. So when it comes to the last 10lbs it's recommended you use a measuring tape, pictures, the way those "perfect weight" pants feel when you put them on, etc...
Can you, or anyone else, clarify/elaborate on this? I don't understand this... seems like you're contradicting yourself. Also, I don't understand how the body gets more efficient as using calories.
I think the last few pounds are harder largely due to measurement error. People think they burn 2000 and eat 1500 and should lose a pound a week but they probably burn less and eat more and lose a lot slower. If your actual deficit achieved is only say 100 calories, not 500 (easy to happen, especially aiming for a 250 deficit or a half pound a week), it'll take over a month to lose a pound and nearly a year to lose 10.
That's one reason I generally balk at the "you can't aim to lose a pound a week with so little to lose". Rarely does someone AIMing to lose that much actually achieve it so their actual deficit is much smaller than they think, so why not aim higher. No one wants to spend a year logging to lose 10 lbs.
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-How can someone gain weight by eating too little? If that were true no one would ever starve to death.midwesterner85 wrote: »As you get leaner you have a smaller margin of error. Usually those "last 10 lbs" are vanity lbs and isn't really necessary to lose. People can't get past that stage but are willing to stop trying because at that point they'd already be in a healthy weight range.
With those last few lbs accuracy and consistency because more important than ever. You can lose a bunch of weight without being accurate as long as you're in a deficit but like I said above, with less fat that margin begins to disappear.
The deficit needs to be smaller because at that stage in the game you have to realize that your body will only oxidize a certain amount of fat a day. It will need to pull energy out of somewhere. Your maintenance will usually be lower than before you lost all the weight and having a deficit that is to large can weigh on your satiety, energy levels and adherence.
Adequate protein levels and resistance training will aid in lbm retention but you can't count on over consumption of protein to fully prevent the lbm lose. Increase protein beyond certain levels aren't going to accelerate MPS.
^^This. I'm still 25 lbs. from the end and I'm starting to run into this already. If I eat too little, I gain weight (that angers a lot of people who insist that a larger deficit will cause a larger loss and that one will never gain weight from eating too little, but I observed a weight gain for 4 weeks after cutting calories too low. As soon as I raised calories to a smaller deficit, I lost it again). The "window" of how many calories can cause weight loss starts to become small, and so if you unwittingly go outside of that window, you will gain weight or stall. One must be extremely precise in measuring and this is when weight loss is not just in the kitchen - heavier people can lose weight usually just by eating less because they require more energy just for every day sedentary activities such as working a desk job. As you get closer to your goal, you will need to not only eat the right amount (above RMR, but below total expenditure), but you will also need to exercise more in order to increase calories expended.
I sure wish I understood it myself, just so I could explain it to all of you who who keep calling me a liar. I've been over this very thoroughly in another post, and will not argue it again. I'm getting really annoyed at everyone telling me that I magically stopped measuring food properly during those 4 weeks, or that my scale broke for those 4 weeks and started working again afterwards, or that I'm just plain lying. I was there... if you were not and you can't do anything other than call me a liar, then keep your comments to yourself. Just because you do not understand it does not mean it is not possible.
Everything was the same - same scale, same food scale, same types of foods, same exercise level. The only difference was that I ate less of those foods and I gained weight fast when eating around 100 cal below my RMR. I gained more than 5 lbs. in 4 weeks after consistently losing weight (albeit at a slow pace) for months at a higher calorie intake (smaller deficit). As soon as I returned to that higher calorie intake, I lost that weight again. Eating below RMR caused weight gain.0 -
One factor might be the availability of calories from fat stores - reportedly about 30 calories/day per lb of fat stores. When close to goal you have less fat left and hence the ability to supply less of a deficit.
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midwesterner85 wrote: »
-How can someone gain weight by eating too little? If that were true no one would ever starve to death.midwesterner85 wrote: »As you get leaner you have a smaller margin of error. Usually those "last 10 lbs" are vanity lbs and isn't really necessary to lose. People can't get past that stage but are willing to stop trying because at that point they'd already be in a healthy weight range.
With those last few lbs accuracy and consistency because more important than ever. You can lose a bunch of weight without being accurate as long as you're in a deficit but like I said above, with less fat that margin begins to disappear.
The deficit needs to be smaller because at that stage in the game you have to realize that your body will only oxidize a certain amount of fat a day. It will need to pull energy out of somewhere. Your maintenance will usually be lower than before you lost all the weight and having a deficit that is to large can weigh on your satiety, energy levels and adherence.
Adequate protein levels and resistance training will aid in lbm retention but you can't count on over consumption of protein to fully prevent the lbm lose. Increase protein beyond certain levels aren't going to accelerate MPS.
^^This. I'm still 25 lbs. from the end and I'm starting to run into this already. If I eat too little, I gain weight (that angers a lot of people who insist that a larger deficit will cause a larger loss and that one will never gain weight from eating too little, but I observed a weight gain for 4 weeks after cutting calories too low. As soon as I raised calories to a smaller deficit, I lost it again). The "window" of how many calories can cause weight loss starts to become small, and so if you unwittingly go outside of that window, you will gain weight or stall. One must be extremely precise in measuring and this is when weight loss is not just in the kitchen - heavier people can lose weight usually just by eating less because they require more energy just for every day sedentary activities such as working a desk job. As you get closer to your goal, you will need to not only eat the right amount (above RMR, but below total expenditure), but you will also need to exercise more in order to increase calories expended.
I sure wish I understood it myself, just so I could explain it to all of you who who keep calling me a liar. I've been over this very thoroughly in another post, and will not go into it again. Everything was the same - same scale, same food scale, same types of foods, same exercise level. The only difference was that I ate less of those foods and I gained weight fast when eating around 100 cal below my RMR. I gained more than 5 lbs. in 4 weeks after consistently losing weight (albeit at a slow pace) for months at a higher calorie intake (smaller deficit). As soon as I returned to that higher calorie intake, I lost that weight again. Eating below RMR caused weight gain.
Just so I'm clear... you don't understand the how/why it happened, you just know you're personal experience?
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It's actually a good thing!
Our bodies are intelligent, and when we are approaching the healthy weight our body should operate at, it slows the loss way down, because it knows you are approaching (or have arrived at) the point it would want to remain at! And as others have mentioned, it's not in any hurry to lose the little that remains!
Don't worry too much about those last 10 lbs, and if there changes you would want to make to body composition, work on those via exercise/ gym/ etc, because it is unlikely losing the last 10lbs is the answer to that! And as you work on the other stuff, you may lose those 10 pounds anyway!
If your body composition is fine, then perhaps where you are is your body's true goal weight, as opposed to the number you had in mind!
ADDITION - After viewing your pics, I wonder where exactly you would want an additional 10 lb loss to come from?
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midwesterner85 wrote: »
-How can someone gain weight by eating too little? If that were true no one would ever starve to death.midwesterner85 wrote: »As you get leaner you have a smaller margin of error. Usually those "last 10 lbs" are vanity lbs and isn't really necessary to lose. People can't get past that stage but are willing to stop trying because at that point they'd already be in a healthy weight range.
With those last few lbs accuracy and consistency because more important than ever. You can lose a bunch of weight without being accurate as long as you're in a deficit but like I said above, with less fat that margin begins to disappear.
The deficit needs to be smaller because at that stage in the game you have to realize that your body will only oxidize a certain amount of fat a day. It will need to pull energy out of somewhere. Your maintenance will usually be lower than before you lost all the weight and having a deficit that is to large can weigh on your satiety, energy levels and adherence.
Adequate protein levels and resistance training will aid in lbm retention but you can't count on over consumption of protein to fully prevent the lbm lose. Increase protein beyond certain levels aren't going to accelerate MPS.
^^This. I'm still 25 lbs. from the end and I'm starting to run into this already. If I eat too little, I gain weight (that angers a lot of people who insist that a larger deficit will cause a larger loss and that one will never gain weight from eating too little, but I observed a weight gain for 4 weeks after cutting calories too low. As soon as I raised calories to a smaller deficit, I lost it again). The "window" of how many calories can cause weight loss starts to become small, and so if you unwittingly go outside of that window, you will gain weight or stall. One must be extremely precise in measuring and this is when weight loss is not just in the kitchen - heavier people can lose weight usually just by eating less because they require more energy just for every day sedentary activities such as working a desk job. As you get closer to your goal, you will need to not only eat the right amount (above RMR, but below total expenditure), but you will also need to exercise more in order to increase calories expended.
I sure wish I understood it myself, just so I could explain it to all of you who who keep calling me a liar. I've been over this very thoroughly in another post, and will not go into it again. Everything was the same - same scale, same food scale, same types of foods, same exercise level. The only difference was that I ate less of those foods and I gained weight fast when eating around 100 cal below my RMR. I gained more than 5 lbs. in 4 weeks after consistently losing weight (albeit at a slow pace) for months at a higher calorie intake (smaller deficit). As soon as I returned to that higher calorie intake, I lost that weight again. Eating below RMR caused weight gain.
Just so I'm clear... you don't understand the how/why it happened, you just know you're personal experience?
The only variable I changed was calorie intake. I went from a small calorie deficit to a larger deficit, which was below calculated RMR. After observing consistent weight gain, I read somewhere that eating below RMR could cause weight gain. So I raised calories again and started losing. There are no other variables that changed... so I don't fully understand why, but I understand what and what happened.
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When you really think about it, one you first gained 10lbs(for most people) it didn't happen overnight. Your body's metabolism was higher then, so while the body was burning calories at a high rate, it was also readjusting itself to the new change. Going back down the scale is the same process, except your metabolism probably isn't operating at the level it once was. You find your body is fighting more, holding on tightly to those last 10.
I know my last 10lbs will be a fight and if I can maintain a 500 calorie deficit on a daily basis, maintain at least 10,000 steps a day(using SenseMe app on android, 17000 if you use fitbit(because anymove counts as a step) realistically .5 pounds. The key thing is not to starve yourself, because if you do, it is a diet. You always need to feel full. Establishing a new habit is a lifestyle change, once you do that your body will recognize it and slowly let go. "Remember you didn't gain all that weight overnight" so expect a long hard fight, even if you only lose .1 like I did today, it's still a win. Hang in there, let your body know, you are no longer that person, that needs all those calories to function.0
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