MFP vs. TDEE

BigDaddyBooth

I've seen a lot of chatter on the forums about people calculating their daily calorie goals using the TDEE method instead of what MFP suggests, but isn't that what MFP already does?

I was curious so I went out to one of the calculators, and it suggested that my daily calories be over 2,300/day for the maximum weight loss it allowed in the calculator. MFP has me at 1,920, and I typically eat 1,400-1,600. What gives? My entries into the two tools were identical.

shadow2soul

MFP gives you calories based on what it would take for you to lose without exercise. That's why if you log exercise, you get more to eat.

TDEE however takes into account everything you do that burns calories, including exercise.

MFP + Exercise should give you a similar calorie average as TDEE method.

Example:
I do MFP's method and eat back exercise calories. My intake averages around 1920 calories.

TDEE calculators say with the amount I exercise I should be eating somewhere in the 1800-2100 calorie range to lose weight.

SezxyStef

MFP uses NEAT (Non exercise Activity Thermogenisis) which basically is the calories you need before purposeful exercise to lose weight...that is why choosing your activity level is important when setting up your account if you aren't going to use TDEE.

TDEE is Total Daily Energy Expenditure so that is your NEAT + EXERCISE

I prefer iifym.com for TDEE as it is closest to my actual maitenance than any other site.

BigDaddyBooth

shadow2soul wrote: »

MFP gives you calories based on what it would take for you to lose without exercise. That's why if you log exercise, you get more to eat.

TDEE however takes into account everything you do that burns calories, including exercise.

MFP + Exercise should give you a similar calorie average as TDEE method.

Example:
I do MFP's method and eat back exercise calories. My intake averages around 1920 calories.

TDEE calculators say with the amount I exercise I should be eating somewhere in the 1800-2100 calorie range to lose weight.

The TDEE calculator I used had options under "activity-level" that included how much you exercise each week, but it also had one for "sit at a desk all day". When I selected that one it still had me at the 2,300/day mark.

SezxyStef

depending on the site and the stats....sounds like it could be maitenance (TDEE=Maitenance)

Normally TDEE-20% is MFP+exercise calories if you want to lose 1lb a week...

that is the other variable...how much in MFP did you say you wanted to lose a week?

BigDaddyBooth

I told MFP I wanted to lose 2 pounds per week. I set the TDEE calculaor at -25%.

echofm1

BigDaddyBooth wrote: »

I've seen a lot of chatter on the forums about people calculating their daily calorie goals using the TDEE method instead of what MFP suggests, but isn't that what MFP already does?

I was curious so I went out to one of the calculators, and it suggested that my daily calories be over 2,300/day for the maximum weight loss it allowed in the calculator. MFP has me at 1,920, and I typically eat 1,400-1,600. What gives? My entries into the two tools were identical.

This isn't really your question, but if both MFP and TDEE are giving you numbers closer to 2000+ calories a day, why are you eating 1400-1600?

BigDaddyBooth

echofm1 wrote: »

BigDaddyBooth wrote: »

I've seen a lot of chatter on the forums about people calculating their daily calorie goals using the TDEE method instead of what MFP suggests, but isn't that what MFP already does?

I was curious so I went out to one of the calculators, and it suggested that my daily calories be over 2,300/day for the maximum weight loss it allowed in the calculator. MFP has me at 1,920, and I typically eat 1,400-1,600. What gives? My entries into the two tools were identical.

This isn't really your question, but if both MFP and TDEE are giving you numbers closer to 2000+ calories a day, why are you eating 1400-1600?

I've been eating until I'm satisfied. I've felt full all day with almost no hunger or cravings, and figured there was no reason to force myself to eat more if my body isn't telling me I should.

SezxyStef

BigDaddyBooth wrote: »

I told MFP I wanted to lose 2 pounds per week. I set the TDEE calculaor at -25%.

That is different....25% does not necessarily mean 2lbs

But I agree if MFP gave you 1920 then you eat back exercise calories (would get you to about 2200-2400) why are you eating 1400-1600?

echofm1

SezxyStef wrote: »

BigDaddyBooth wrote: »

I told MFP I wanted to lose 2 pounds per week. I set the TDEE calculaor at -25%.

That is different....25% does not necessarily mean 2lbs

But I agree if MFP gave you 1920 then you eat back exercise calories (would get you to about 2200-2400) why are you eating 1400-1600?

That's very true, and not something I'd thought about. So MFP assumes that at maintenance you burn 2920 calories a day. 2 pounds a week gives you 1920 calories a day, because that's a deficit of 1000 calories a day. However, doing your maintenance-25% (essentially the TDEE method) would put you at 2190 according to MFP's calculations. There's some variance in calculators, which is why MFP's is closer to 2200 and the TDEE is closer to 2300 and most calculations aren't entirely accurate for larger people (which is why severely obese people tend to lose 2-3 pounds a week at first even if they're set to lose 1-2 pounds).

As for the primary reason to eat more calories, it's because losing weight too quickly tends to create unwanted results. You're likely to see muscle loss and it can lead to saggy skin. There's also concern that you might not be getting the nutrients you need for healthy and sustainable weight loss, even if you might feel full.

Another general concern when people are eating below their goal is that they're getting super restrictive, which can set someone up for failure. There's nothing wrong with having a cookie if it fits your calorie goal and keeps you from eating a whole bag of gummy worms and a pint of ice cream later on because you don't let yourself have any.

I'm not saying any of these are actually your issues, but I hope you can understand why people who have been on the forum for a while might be concerned when you're eating so much lower than goal.

BigDaddyBooth

Thanks Echo! That makes a ton of sense!

dbanks80

I was confused about that until I did some research. MyTDEE was 2189 and you are supposed to cut that by 20% so my total daily calories to lose weight is 1751. I normally eat around 1500. MFP tells me to eat 1200 but that is without exercise when i add exercise it calculates close to my TDEE 1751 calories per day.

SezxyStef

dbanks80 wrote: »

I was confused about that until I did some research. MyTDEE was 2189 and you are supposed to cut that by 20% so my total daily calories to lose weight is 1751. I normally eat around 1500. MFP tells me to eat 1200 but that is without exercise when i add exercise it calculates close to my TDEE 1751 calories per day.

that's what mine was like too...my TDEE-20% was MFP+exercise calories for 1lb weight loss...it really can be 6 of one half a dozen of another.

joeez5

bump

tsardinea

Where are you guys finding these calculators for TDEE and MFP?

shadow2soul

tsardinea wrote: »

Where are you guys finding these calculators for TDEE and MFP?

For MFP:
Set your daily goal
Add exercise burn calories
Then look at what it your total intake (not net)
Keep track of your total intake for about 4 weeks or so
Then average out the numbers (you can also look back at a previous 4 weeks if you want)
This will give you your approximate average calories per day for losing weight
edit: Haybales (sp) created this awesome spreadsheet
On the progress page, there is a spot to track your calories for about 4 weeks. It will average them out. Under that there is a spot to put the amount you lost during that time and it will give you your approx TDEE based on your results.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Amt7QBR9-c6MdGVTbGswLUUzUHNVVUlNSW9wZWloeUE#gid=14

For TDEE:
http://scoobysworkshop.com/accurate-calorie-calculator/
http://www.weightloss-calculator.net/
http://www.fitnessfrog.com/calculators/tdee-calculator.html
***fitness frog only gives TDEE, you have to subtract up to 20% on your own from the number it gives
http://www.fat2fittools.com/tools/bmr/

cwlsr

I will keep it short! You might like to read this article explaining NEAT from an expert at Mayo Clinic. http://www.mayoclinic.org/documents/mc5810-0307-pdf/doc-20079082

earlnabby

I calculated via TDEE and the calories were within 50 of what MFP gives me.

sodakat

cwlsr wrote: »

I will keep it short! You might like to read this article explaining NEAT from an expert at Mayo Clinic. http://www.mayoclinic.org/documents/mc5810-0307-pdf/doc-20079082

Super interesting study! Here is an excerpt:

Dr Levine reports: “To examine whether NEAT is
important in obesity, we integrated microsensors
into undergarments, as shown in Figure 2. These
sensors allowed us to quantify body postures and
movements, especially walking, every half-second
for 10 days. Obese subjects were seated for 21⁄2
hours per day more than lean subjects. The lean
sedentary people stood and walked for more than
2 hours per day longer than obese subjects. If the
obese subjects were to adopt the same NEAT-otype
as the lean subjects, they might expend an
additional 350 calories per day. Thus, NEAT and
specifically walking are of substantial
energetic importance in obesity.”
Dr Levine concludes: “This information
collectively demonstrates that
there may be a NEAT defect in human
obesity and that this effect is underpinned
by a profound yet subtle biology.
If one is born with the genetic trait
to sit, is obesity inevitable? I do not
think so, because obesity emerged
over the past century and especially
the past 20 years, but our genes did
not change. Chair-living has proven so
enticing that we have forsaken our
legs. It is now time to find ways to get
us back onto our legs.”

cwolfman13

If you're doing it right, the methods are basically 6 of 1, half dozen of the other. The only real difference is where you account for your exercise activity.

For example, my MFP maintenance number with "light active" for my day to day hum drum WITHOUT exercise is 2350 calories. If I were to log exercise and "eat back" those calories, it would equate to about 2800 - 2900 calories per day.

With TDEE I just include my exercise in my activity level for which I am moderately active...which gives me about 2800 - 2900 calories per day.

6 of 1, half dozen of the other.

neanderthin

sodakat wrote: »

cwlsr wrote: »

I will keep it short! You might like to read this article explaining NEAT from an expert at Mayo Clinic. http://www.mayoclinic.org/documents/mc5810-0307-pdf/doc-20079082

Super interesting study! Here is an excerpt:

Dr Levine reports: “To examine whether NEAT is
important in obesity, we integrated microsensors
into undergarments, as shown in Figure 2. These
sensors allowed us to quantify body postures and
movements, especially walking, every half-second
for 10 days. Obese subjects were seated for 21⁄2
hours per day more than lean subjects. The lean
sedentary people stood and walked for more than
2 hours per day longer than obese subjects. If the
obese subjects were to adopt the same NEAT-otype
as the lean subjects, they might expend an
additional 350 calories per day. Thus, NEAT and
specifically walking are of substantial
energetic importance in obesity.”
Dr Levine concludes: “This information
collectively demonstrates that
there may be a NEAT defect in human
obesity and that this effect is underpinned
by a profound yet subtle biology.
If one is born with the genetic trait
to sit, is obesity inevitable? I do not
think so, because obesity emerged
over the past century and especially
the past 20 years, but our genes did
not change. Chair-living has proven so
enticing that we have forsaken our
legs. It is now time to find ways to get
us back onto our legs.”

It would be interesting if the lean subjects had 70 extra lbs strapped to their backs, just for research purposes to see if they moved as much.

ButterflyFran

I personally think it much better to follow the MFP method and to use a HRM which tells you how many calories you burn through exercise. I feel this is the more accurate way of doing it and you know more where you are. But that just works for me!

sijomial

Some factors you might want to consider when choosing MFP method or TDEE method:

1/ Personal preference - do you like eating the same level every day or prefer high days and low days to match your exercise and other aspects of your life (eating out for example)?

2/ How consistent is your routine? If your routine and your calories burns vary enormously then MFP may suit you better. Do you manage to stick to your routine or does life and lack of motivation get in the way?

3/ How much do you actually exercise? If not a lot then it's no big deal either way and exercise is has much smaller impact on your calorie balance than someone burning thousands of calories a week. TDEE may well suit better as it's nice and simple.

4/ Do you do endurance cardio that needs fuelling on the day?

So for me: I like to have high days and low days, daily routine varies from zero exercise to 3000+ calories burned, I exercise a lot but weekly volume also varies considerably, I cycle long distances which I need to fuel properly. So it's a no-brainer that MFP method is best for me.

nate009

I wish i knew this before i started using MFP! - thanks for everyone who shared their knowledge in this post

PAV8888

True; but zombie post alert!