Strength training question

jacksonpt

wilsoncl6 wrote: »

The purpose of weight training is not only to get strong and gain endurance but also to lose weight. The more muscle you have the more calories you burn, even when you are at rest. Therefore, it makes your cardio workouts that much more productive and your overall daily calorie burn proportionally higher. Furthermore, stronger muscles help you recover faster and work harder. I recommend some level of strength training for everyone wanting to get into shape. However, it is difficult to determine the overall calorie burn from a weight training routine, a lot of different variables to factor in. That's probably why Fitnesspal doesn't automatically factor it into your calorie count although you can make some basic assumptions using the MFP method. Additionally, it is the muscle recovery that burns a lot of your calories, more than the activity itself. My recommendation, don't factor in your calories from fitness training and you'll reach your goal quicker than you thought and pack on some sexy lean muscle while your at it.

The bolded part, while true, is pretty insignificant. Putting on 10lbs of new muscle (which is A LOT, and will take A LONG TIME) will have minimal impact on your BMR.

Strength training should NOT be done with the expectation that it will lead to weight loss.

MrsWanland

I guess I am more confused than ever lol I'm trying to lose another 60 lbs or so. Is strength training the way to go or not?

Lofteren

MrsWanland wrote: »

I guess I am more confused than ever lol I'm trying to lose another 60 lbs or so. Is strength training the way to go or not?

Strength training is important if you want to maintain strength and muscle mass while losing weight. If you diet and do cardio with no strength training then you will lose weight but a lot of it will be muscle. So yes, strength training is the way to go but you should also do plenty of cardio (preferably in the form of HIIT, in my opinion) if your goal is to lose fat.

meridianova

Lofteren wrote: »

MrsWanland wrote: »

I guess I am more confused than ever lol I'm trying to lose another 60 lbs or so. Is strength training the way to go or not?

Strength training is important if you want to maintain strength and muscle mass while losing weight. If you diet and do cardio with no strength training then you will lose weight but a lot of it will be muscle. So yes, strength training is the way to go but you should also do plenty of cardio (preferably in the form of HIIT, in my opinion) if your goal is to lose fat.

i have a question about this... i see a lot of information stating that it's impossible to build muscle while in a caloric deficit, although "newbies" will see gains. wouldn't the body simply pull the necessary energy to build and repair muscles, and increase their mass, from the existing bodyfat stores if there isn't a surplus from food? if that's how we function when we have an intake that's less than output, why wouldn't it also work for increased output functions like building muscle mass?

dbmata

When people say that, they're talking about efficiency.

At a deficit you can gain SOME muscle, increase SOME strength, but not at the same level as if you were training directly for that.

Sam_I_Am77

Think of it this way, exercise can augment weight loss but by itself it cannot make you lose weight if your diet sucks; you're diet must be in-line with your weight loss goal. One can't train their way out of a bad diet, at least not in the long-term. Strength training can help you be more functional in every day life and make physical tasks easier.

mustgetmuscles1

meridianova wrote: »

Lofteren wrote: »

MrsWanland wrote: »

I guess I am more confused than ever lol I'm trying to lose another 60 lbs or so. Is strength training the way to go or not?

Strength training is important if you want to maintain strength and muscle mass while losing weight. If you diet and do cardio with no strength training then you will lose weight but a lot of it will be muscle. So yes, strength training is the way to go but you should also do plenty of cardio (preferably in the form of HIIT, in my opinion) if your goal is to lose fat.

i have a question about this... i see a lot of information stating that it's impossible to build muscle while in a caloric deficit, although "newbies" will see gains. wouldn't the body simply pull the necessary energy to build and repair muscles, and increase their mass, from the existing bodyfat stores if there isn't a surplus from food? if that's how we function when we have an intake that's less than output, why wouldn't it also work for increased output functions like building muscle mass?

Not really possible. To build muscle you need protein. When protein is present from your diet you stop burning body fat for energy. This is one of the main functions of insulin. You eat food, you produce insulin, insulin stops (slows) the use of fat for energy.

So you wont have the building material and the energy available at the same time if you are relying on stored fat.

Of course even in a daily deficit your are in a surplus around meals. A small amount of new muscle could be made in those times but muscle building is such a slow process that this is a minuscule amount. You are lucky just to repair the damage from workouts. Forget adding new mass.

brandiuntz

BusyRaeNOTBusty wrote: »

HRM don't work for calories when strength training. They monitor heart rate. The equations they use to convert heart rate to calories are only valid during steady state cardio.

I just use MFP's numbers and round down a little for lifting. At 160lbs burn about 100 calories for a half hour. But we don't lift to burn calories. We lift to gain strength, preserve muscle mass, and be generally awesome.

^^This. A HRM won't accurately measure calories burned for strength training. They're good for steady-state cardio only.

Sam_I_Am77

mustgetmuscles1 wrote: »

Not really possible. To build muscle you need protein. When protein is present from your diet you stop burning body fat for energy. This is one of the main functions of insulin. You eat food, you produce insulin, insulin stops (slows) the use of fat for energy.

So you wont have the building material and the energy available at the same time if you are relying on stored fat.

Of course even in a daily deficit your are in a surplus around meals. A small amount of new muscle could be made in those times but muscle building is such a slow process that this is a minuscule amount. You are lucky just to repair the damage from workouts. Forget adding new mass.

LOL, wwwhhhhhat?!?!? You're trolling right?

You need surplus calories to induce muscle hypertrophy, period (aside from the correct training variables). Protein is basically the building blocks for muscle tissue but you cannot do this on protein alone. Additionally, protein does not cause your body to stop burning body fat for energy. Protein can elicit an insulin response but it's generally not significant. Protein is actually believed to be more thermogenic in-nature. I think you may have confused Protein with Carbs for the affect upon Insulin. Unfortunately this is why Carbs have misguidedly received a bad rap.

The last comments lends itself to timing, and at this point timing is not a significant factor for the average person. I was listening to an interview with Dr. Bill Campbell the other day and suggested that there is little evidence to suggest that eating 4 to 6 meals / day is any better than eating 2 meals per day.

Sam_I_Am77

delete

grantwashere

Don't over-think it. I lift heavy 3-4 times per week and I too, log it as 1 calorie. That coupled with eating a little over my BMR seems to be working well for me.

mustgetmuscles1

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

mustgetmuscles1 wrote: »

Not really possible. To build muscle you need protein. When protein is present from your diet you stop burning body fat for energy. This is one of the main functions of insulin. You eat food, you produce insulin, insulin stops (slows) the use of fat for energy.

So you wont have the building material and the energy available at the same time if you are relying on stored fat.

Of course even in a daily deficit your are in a surplus around meals. A small amount of new muscle could be made in those times but muscle building is such a slow process that this is a minuscule amount. You are lucky just to repair the damage from workouts. Forget adding new mass.

LOL, wwwhhhhhat?!?!? You're trolling right?

You need surplus calories to induce muscle hypertrophy, period (aside from the correct training variables). Protein is basically the building blocks for muscle tissue but you cannot do this on protein alone. Additionally, protein does not cause your body to stop burning body fat for energy. Protein can elicit an insulin response but it's generally not significant. Protein is actually believed to be more thermogenic in-nature. I think you may have confused Protein with Carbs for the affect upon Insulin. Unfortunately this is why Carbs have misguidedly received a bad rap.

The last comments lends itself to timing, and at this point timing is not a significant factor for the average person. I was listening to an interview with Dr. Bill Campbell the other day and suggested that there is little evidence to suggest that eating 4 to 6 meals / day is any better than eating 2 meals per day.

No not trolling. You really didnt say anything different than what I did. If you ate ONLY protein with your meal then the insulin response might not be as large. True but who does that? We both agreed that protein is the building block of hypertrophy and that you need protein and energy to create new mass. This will happen for longer periods of time in a caloric surplus but can also happen even in a daily deficit around your meals. Its just that there will be less chance of a net gain the larger the deficit becomes. Its not an on/off switch but a sliding scale. If I said you could add new muscle at maintenance calories or above no one would argue. Once I start sliding down the scale the other way though people go all or nothing. Like a 50 calorie deficit instantly makes it impossible to have any hypertrophy. The farther into a deficit you go the lower the amount of new mass would be and if going to far you would have a net loss of muscle.

My point to the other poster as to why you cant use stored body fat to fuel new muscle mass stands. You will not have the building block (protein) available at the same time you are using store body fat for energy because the protein would have been used up for energy and repairs first.

tigersword

meridianova wrote: »

Lofteren wrote: »

MrsWanland wrote: »

I guess I am more confused than ever lol I'm trying to lose another 60 lbs or so. Is strength training the way to go or not?

Strength training is important if you want to maintain strength and muscle mass while losing weight. If you diet and do cardio with no strength training then you will lose weight but a lot of it will be muscle. So yes, strength training is the way to go but you should also do plenty of cardio (preferably in the form of HIIT, in my opinion) if your goal is to lose fat.

i have a question about this... i see a lot of information stating that it's impossible to build muscle while in a caloric deficit, although "newbies" will see gains. wouldn't the body simply pull the necessary energy to build and repair muscles, and increase their mass, from the existing bodyfat stores if there isn't a surplus from food? if that's how we function when we have an intake that's less than output, why wouldn't it also work for increased output functions like building muscle mass?

Basically, when you are in a deficit, you are slowly starving to death. You're body doesn't understand "dieting to lose weight," it only understands "not enough food to maintain fat stores." Maintaining fat stores is something that's hardwired into the body's survival instinct, because you can live far longer with more fat and less muscle during periods of starvation than you can with more muscle and less fat. That's why it won't waste energy from fat stores to attempt to build more muscle, as that counteracts survival mechanisms, as muscle costs more energy to maintain than fat (although that number in reality is pretty insignificant on a per pound basis.)

Sam_I_Am77

Lofteren wrote: »

dbmata wrote: »

Lofteren wrote: »

JZ_Evolution_Mark2 wrote: »

However if you weightlift you'll reduce ATP

????? Please explain this physiological process

One can only assume he means this.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/galanis9.htm
(Which is heavily simplified.)

I know what ATP is. "Reducing ATP" is not a lasting effect of any form of exercise, it is simply used as a source of fuel for cellular respiration. Anything that you do will therefore "reduce ATP" just like anywhere you drive will "reduce Gasoline". The reason I asked is because stating that if you weightlift you'll reduce ATP is an incorrect/misleading statement. I was just curious of what made him think this in the first place. I suspect it stems from not actually understanding aerobic/anaerobic respiration, Kreb's and Calvin cycles, etc...

Threads on MFP are really interesting today. Loftren is right on the money. ATP-PC is going to be burned as an energy source for intense bouts of exercise that last about 1 - 20 sec's. Post 20-sec's energy via anaerobic glycolysis takes over and then anything beyond roughly 45-seconds begins to include the aerobic system. The body restores phosphocreatine (the PC in ATP-PC) and oxygen in roughly 2 to 3 minutes. That's why many experts in exercise science suggest resting 2 to 4 minutes in-between sets involving maximal effort lifts.