Does it feel counter-cultural to be pro-eating?

anna_doe1986

I'm recovering from anorexia, and I've restored a fair amount of weight in the last several months. And let me tell you, I can't tell you how great I feel! I didn't realize how sick I was until I started getting better. .

In particular, I realized that we need some amount of carbs/sugar to function. Once I passed the psychological hurdle of eating decent amounts of carbs and sugar again and not giving a @&#$@ what everyone around me said about it, life started getting a whole lot better. I used to feel like the walking dead, and now I feel alive again.

But, for anyone who is trying to restore or maintain weight, do you ever feel kinda lonely, guilty, and just plain counter-cultural if you think it's actually good to eat dessert and liquid calories in moderation? Particularly where I live, everyone is so health conscious. They seem to look at me funny when I order something "not healthy," and when I cave and eat a salad for lunch (yes, I call that "caving"), I'm complimented for "eating healthy." (And I'm still underweight.)

And when someone says, "Ew, calories," or calls a glass of juice "death in a cup," after all the hours of therapy it took to get me to drink juice again, I don't know how to respond.

Any thoughts would be most appreciated!!

kommodevaran

You need new friends.

ThePhoenixIsRising

Death in a cup?? Cals are energy nothing more and nothing less. You have found a your zest for life and know life is better when you have the energy you need to fully experience it!

Wheelhouse15

So what's counter-cultural about eating and enjoying it? Eating is social and enjoying a good meal is part of cultural celebrations everywhere. If you are in a sub-culture that doesn't understand this than I think that may not be healthy for you. Sure it's great to eat healthy but that doesn't mean you cannot enjoy a good bowl of ice cream or slice of cake once in a while. Also, just because someone eats a salad in front of you doesn't mean much and I doubt they have any real credentials so just ignore them.

anna_doe1986

Wow, thanks everyone; this is super encouraging! I've been debating joining MFP because I initially (and incorrectly) thought it was just about dieting, but I'm so glad to get these positive responses! Looks like there's a lot more to the MFP community than initially meets the eye:)

a4phantom

You have the opposite problem from the majority of Americans, and the minority's problems are never taken seriously (look at Ferguson, Missouri.) So people will probably always say weird, unhelpful and dickish things to you. Fortunately, you're not getting your health back for their sake.

TavistockToad

kommodevaran wrote: »

You need new friends.

this, definitely

cosmiqrust

what a sad bunch of people. drink your juice and tell them they can choke on a head of lettuce.

blktngldhrt

kommodevaran wrote: »

You need new friends.

This!

Enjoy your juice/carbs. They're delicious.

trinatrina1984

Yeah these people sound pretty weird "death in a cup" WTF?! It's great that you are on the mend are feeling the positive effects of a healthy diet. Please don't let these idiots get to you or make you feel bad about what you're eating, as someone else said it may be time to make some new friends.

csuhar

I can see how you might feel the cultural emphasis is on eating as little as possible. It seems there is a large, if subconscious, cultural emphasis on trying to minimize the number of calories we eat the same way we try to minimize energy consumption or waste.

A number of years ago, I remember how my supervisor talked to me about how I "always seemed to be eating",

I found it to be a challenge to articulate that, as male of my age, size, and activity level, I was looking at (and still do) over 3000 calories a day just to maintain and that, when you're cooking for yourself, trying to avoid fast / pre-processed foods, and trying to eat that much, it involves eating a large number of items in a day. A cup of oatmeal or a carton of yogurt only gets you so far.

So what I did was I ran the numbers, showed them to my boss, and then showed him my weekly menus so he could see how the number of calories I was supposed to eat stacked up against what I actually ate.

I don't know if I changed his mindset any, but the issue never came up again.


And this was all pre-MFP. One of the reasons I keep using the site is so that, if I have another supervisor with the same critique, MFP provides me a way to show my calculations, plans, and actual food log and say "THIS is why I eat what I do. When you make me exercise with the unit, sir/ma'am, and that's stacked on top of my personal workouts, I've got to find the fuel somewhere."

Docbanana2002

People tend to gravitate toward people who are like them in many ways.... alcoholics tend to have friends who are heavy drinkers, for example. When they try to stop drinking, they find themselves not only fighting their own mind and body, but the social network around them that encouraged/enabled their addiction to develop. Friends who keep bringing alcohol to their house, inviting them to parties and bars, making social occasions be about getting drunk, etc.

Same thing happens with weight. Sounds to me like you made friends with people who have some disordered and unhealthy thinking in relation to food... they are like you used to be, and they encouraged you in in your unhealthy ways back then. They seemed normal to you then, but now that you are changing you see that they are not healthy, and they are resisting you being the new you.

I'm in the same boat, but in the opposite direction. I used to be morbidly obese and all my friends/family and most of my coworkers still are. I have to be counterculture to LOSE weight and get teased for eating vegetables that are still identifiable as such rather than deep fried and battered. Every social occasion is built around huge portions of fattening food. Food = love and friendship and comfort, in this world. I don't recognize anything you said about your friends as reflecting anyone I've ever hung out with in real life, to be honest. I've heard such people exist and met them online but they aren't in my social world.The people who hang out with me are obese and would make fun of me for "suffering" through a lunch of juice and salad. You're supposed to eat a big hamburger and super sized fries and large coke for lunch, don't you know?

I think realizing what's happening is part of the battle. Know that what you are experiencing from them isn't the whole world's thinking, but the thinking of the world that your pre-recovery self created as a friend group (or that was given to you as family). People like you used to be, who supported your eating disorder's development. You started getting healthy, but they are still stuck where they were... and now you are far enough away from your pre-recovery self to recognize how unhealthy they are. You should see this as am major victory, that your eyes are now open to this! It is still hard to fight, though. While you are in recovery and perhaps more prone to slipping back into old patterns, you might have to limit your contact with these friends, or limit the kinds of situations you enjoy with them (for example go to the movies with them but not out for dinner) or the topics you discuss. Might have to stand your ground when they encourage you for disordered thinking/behavior and maybe tell them plainly that they are hurting your recovery. You might also want to find ways to connect up with some additional friends who are truly HEALTH conscious, not just obsessed with starving themselves to a certain size.

AliceDark

Definitely come hang out in this forum -- it's awesome here! (Be careful going into some of the other forums, because there are some batsh*t crazy people who are perfectly capable of calling juice "death in a cup," FFS).

I do get what you mean. When you're a woman, the idea that we all should try to constantly eat less and less is so ingrained that you'll find that other people just repeat it without thinking. I don't tend to talk about what I eat with a lot of people IRL because they just don't get it. You have to remember that most people are completely ignorant of basic nutritional concepts, so their advice is almost guaranteed to be wrong for you. I know that doesn't help when what they say is triggering for you, but it's true. They have no idea what they're talking about.

Dumb example: I was having dinner with some friends and they started talking about their shiny new diets. It's always bad form to talk about dieting at a dinner party, but whatever. They were going on and on about how they were both starting a 1200 calorie diet that was the perfect number of calories for both of them (never mind that one is a guy, with a physical job, who outweighs his wife by 50 pounds, but they should totally be eating the same number of calories, right?) I just kind of stared at them and bit my tongue, because what I wanted to do was yell "you guys both have eaten more than 1200 calories since I've been at your house!"

The point is, they have no idea what 1200 calories looks like. They have no idea who it's appropriate for. And because of this, they would flip out if they found out that my much smaller and more active self eats WAY more than that every day.

JoRocka

kommodevaran wrote: »

You need new friends.

seriously.

kookooman333

Everyone needs to try to be healthy (note I said: TRY). For some people, being healthy means trying to lose weight and watch their intake of sweets. For others, being healthy means learning to enjoy living and eating again and gain weight. For other people, being healthy means trying to decrease their risk of certain diseases in their family so they try to avoid sweets and other processed food. Everyone's on their own journey, so just remember that. And mental health is also as important as physical health. For some people (like me) I need SOME sweets for happiness ha ha, even though I am trying really hard to get in shape and lose a little weight (since my body seems to have slowed down as I'm approaching 40). Just keep trying to hold your vision for your own life close to you and follow it every day!

favoritenut

Docbanana2002 wrote: »

People tend to gravitate toward people who are like them in many ways.... alcoholics tend to have friends who are heavy drinkers, for example. When they try to stop drinking, they find themselves not only fighting their own mind and body, but the social network around them that encouraged/enabled their addiction to develop. Friends who keep bringing alcohol to their house, inviting them to parties and bars, making social occasions be about getting drunk, etc.

Same thing happens with weight. Sounds to me like you made friends with people who have some disordered and unhealthy thinking in relation to food... they are like you used to be, and they encouraged you in in your unhealthy ways back then. They seemed normal to you then, but now that you are changing you see that they are not healthy, and they are resisting you being the new you.

I'm in the same boat, but in the opposite direction. I used to be morbidly obese and all my friends/family and most of my coworkers still are. I have to be counterculture to LOSE weight and get teased for eating vegetables that are still identifiable as such rather than deep fried and battered. Every social occasion is built around huge portions of fattening food. Food = love and friendship and comfort, in this world. I don't recognize anything you said about your friends as reflecting anyone I've ever hung out with in real life, to be honest. I've heard such people exist and met them online but they aren't in my social world.The people who hang out with me are obese and would make fun of me for "suffering" through a lunch of juice and salad. You're supposed to eat a big hamburger and super sized fries and large coke for lunch, don't you know?

I think realizing what's happening is part of the battle. Know that what you are experiencing from them isn't the whole world's thinking, but the thinking of the world that your pre-recovery self created as a friend group (or that was given to you as family). People like you used to be, who supported your eating disorder's development. You started getting healthy, but they are still stuck where they were... and now you are far enough away from your pre-recovery self to recognize how unhealthy they are. You should see this as am major victory, that your eyes are now open to this! It is still hard to fight, though. While you are in recovery and perhaps more prone to slipping back into old patterns, you might have to limit your contact with these friends, or limit the kinds of situations you enjoy with them (for example go to the movies with them but not out for dinner) or the topics you discuss. Might have to stand your ground when they encourage you for disordered thinking/behavior and maybe tell them plainly that they are hurting your recovery. You might also want to find ways to connect up with some additional friends who are truly HEALTH conscious, not just obsessed with starving themselves to a certain size.

wow! this was really good, never thought of that in that perspective before, thank you!

JazzFischer1989

Yes and no. I don't suffer from anorexia but I am trying to gain weight and sometimes I have mixed feelings about it when I get complimented all the time for being this thin. I'm at least ten pounds underweight so in a way, it does feel like I'm not "supposed" to want to do this but I know it's for my own good.

dalecharles99

Well said, Doc Banana. When my wife was at WW, she saw the same thing multiple times. A group of friends would join and one would be serious and start doing well. The other friends started sabotaging the successful person's efforts. She had to make a choice to keep her friends and give up her success, or to find people who were supportive of her efforts. Anna, congratulations on your progress. Start to find friends who support what you are doing.

anna_doe1986

Seriously, thanks everybody! I have to say, I know ED therapists who could learn a tip or two from you guys!

And it is shocking how starkly different subcultures can exist in the same country. But I agree, either way, whether your friends are encouraging you to eat super-size meals or nothing but salads with fat-free dressing, it's important to remember that words and sideways glances have power. Just don't let them overpower you:)

Onigirli

As a former anorexic, who has remained on the thin side (constantly up against those tendencies), I commend the OP for sticking up for herself. As a child, I was never overweight, but the food in our household was very restricted. I.e. I'd come home from school 'starving' and ask my mom for some cheese and crackers. She'd count out five wheat thins and put them on a plate, each one with a small square of cheese on it. I'd take my time with them because I knew that's all I was getting. My stomach would be growling, but she'd say "If you eat anything else, it'll spoil your dinner." She was not an abusive mother by any stretch. In her own words she simply "didn't want us to get into the habit of overeating." Needless to say, there was never any soda, sugary cereals, non-skim milk, non-whole wheat bread, non-healthy stuff in our house. There was mayo, real mayo - that was probably the worst thing we had on hand.

I didn't develop anorexia until many years later, but I definitely have bought into the whole 'smaller portions are better' mentality. That's how my whole family was and still is. In my immediate family nobody is overweight and we don't tend to fight against urges to overeat (which I guess I can thank my mom for). When my anorexia first started she would tell me "You're not proving anything by not eating." I wasn't trying to. I guess I just had a misguided desire to obtain an attractive figure, by doing whatever it would take. I didn't want it for display, just for myself, to give me a sense of accomplishment. Actually, I thought my parents would be proud of me. They were proud of my appearance at first, but after a while they realized that I wasn't looking that way by behaving in a healthy way.

Things went from bad to worse. At my lowest weight (I'm 5'6.5") I was 93 pounds. I looked like I was 60 pounds (according to some people in treatment). I was totally out of my mind at that point and out of touch with reality. I'd had to drop out of college and live with my dad for over a year to work on "getting better." This was post residential treatment and post outpatient follow-up treatment. I am currently doing very well (all of those treatments, therapy, etc. took place back 2003 - more than 11 years ago). But there are still the tendencies. I'm very careful about what I eat and I struggle with being "too careful" and considering my intake, my exercise is probably over the line. Whenever I get compliments on my figure it's a little awkward, but I just need to remind myself that when people say such things, they mean well. The reason it's awkward, is because my pursuit of 'the perfect body' put me through a hell I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. So it means a lot more to me when I get compliments about something I can do, like draw, write or play music.

Because I'm a teacher overseas, I get a lot of "You don't look like a normal American" remarks from my students and peers. They have a generalized image of Americans as overweight, or at least 'big.' I just tell them that people come in all shapes and sizes and that if they want to lose weight (female high school students of mine have approached me for advice on this matter), I simply tell them to eat a well balanced diet and exercise. Sounds so cliche, but it's true. Balanced diet and exercise is all you need. Unless you've got celiac, Chron's or diabetes, the key to health and happiness is balance.

It's the same thing I've heard my whole life long, 'balance,' but I'll be damned if I didn't have to go through a hell of a lot of awfulness to finally figure out what that means and to apply it. I can now enjoy ice cream without guilt and without going overboard, same thing with banquets (a popular custom for celebrating special occasions where I live). Overweight, underweight, it's a struggle, but you too can find your peace with food. It's all about realizing what works for you because your body is a unique mechanism. People's metabolisms work differently. If you're hungry, eat. It's when we stop listening to our body's cues that we get ourselves all messed up. Don't stress over situations where what's there isn't a part of your normal intake either, it's a waste of energy. I don't remember who said this, some actress: "Get messy with life, that's how you know you're really living." She's got a point.

anna_doe1986

Onigirli, thanks for your post! I think I had a somewhat similar upbringing (the wheat thins story sounds like my mom), but I didn't develop anorexia until way later.

Onigirli wrote: »

If you're hungry, eat. It's when we stop listening to our body's cues that we get ourselves all messed up.

This.