Serious Questions About the Effects of a VLCD
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77Dasil77
Posts: 20
Hello,
I'm new but have been looking around for a while and most of you seem incredibly well informed about weight loss and nutrition. My question is serious so I hope no one takes it as a joke because I know the numbers behind it are, on their face, crazy.
I have a certified issue with food and all that happy stuff and as such, I have the tendency to either binge or to go into periods of very low calorie intake. Currently, I'm on the low end of things. I figured out my past 10 days and it works out to a daily average of 347 calories (intake not considering exercise, but I haven't really been exercising). I know women are not supposed to go below 1200 and that even then, it is probably too low especially with exercise.
Everyone says low calorie diets are not safe, they ruin your body, it's unhealthy, etc but no one has ever explained to me why outside of the fact that the body needs a certain caloric intake to function properly. My question is, if anyone knows, what exactly does my current calorie intake do to the body and how long can a body go on before something with negative medical implications occurs?
If it matters, I am honestly enormous (no exaggeration, I have 3 figures to lose, not 20lbs) so to my mind, I should be able to do this and my body can exist on the fat reserves. Yes? No? I'm making sure I take in close to 50 a day in protein and also take a GNC ultra women's mega multi. I think 50 is the recommended protein intake for women so if I'm taking that in daily, does that avoid "Your body will eat its muscle?" or is that not how it works? Does the GNC multi provide all of the necessary vitamins I'm not getting through higher calorie intake? Is it theoretically possible to get everything a body needs eating 350? For example, I'll have a whole bag of organic spinach from Trader Joe's and that's only 40 calories but loaded with nutrition.
As surprising as it sounds, I'm not hungry at all and of course, the scale is dropping. The only thing I am noticing the past couple of days is mild muscle fatigue and occasional dizziness when I'm in bed. (This is a good example of what I'm looking to find out. WHAT causes the muscle fatigue? WHAT causes the dizziness?)
If I'm doing real physical damage, I will stop. But because no one has ever really explained in any detail, and I haven't had any real complications, I don't fight this when the urge to do VLC "dieting" hits.
Thank you so much for reading this and for any time you might spend responding. I really do appreciate it.
Have a great day!
I'm new but have been looking around for a while and most of you seem incredibly well informed about weight loss and nutrition. My question is serious so I hope no one takes it as a joke because I know the numbers behind it are, on their face, crazy.
I have a certified issue with food and all that happy stuff and as such, I have the tendency to either binge or to go into periods of very low calorie intake. Currently, I'm on the low end of things. I figured out my past 10 days and it works out to a daily average of 347 calories (intake not considering exercise, but I haven't really been exercising). I know women are not supposed to go below 1200 and that even then, it is probably too low especially with exercise.
Everyone says low calorie diets are not safe, they ruin your body, it's unhealthy, etc but no one has ever explained to me why outside of the fact that the body needs a certain caloric intake to function properly. My question is, if anyone knows, what exactly does my current calorie intake do to the body and how long can a body go on before something with negative medical implications occurs?
If it matters, I am honestly enormous (no exaggeration, I have 3 figures to lose, not 20lbs) so to my mind, I should be able to do this and my body can exist on the fat reserves. Yes? No? I'm making sure I take in close to 50 a day in protein and also take a GNC ultra women's mega multi. I think 50 is the recommended protein intake for women so if I'm taking that in daily, does that avoid "Your body will eat its muscle?" or is that not how it works? Does the GNC multi provide all of the necessary vitamins I'm not getting through higher calorie intake? Is it theoretically possible to get everything a body needs eating 350? For example, I'll have a whole bag of organic spinach from Trader Joe's and that's only 40 calories but loaded with nutrition.
As surprising as it sounds, I'm not hungry at all and of course, the scale is dropping. The only thing I am noticing the past couple of days is mild muscle fatigue and occasional dizziness when I'm in bed. (This is a good example of what I'm looking to find out. WHAT causes the muscle fatigue? WHAT causes the dizziness?)
If I'm doing real physical damage, I will stop. But because no one has ever really explained in any detail, and I haven't had any real complications, I don't fight this when the urge to do VLC "dieting" hits.
Thank you so much for reading this and for any time you might spend responding. I really do appreciate it.
Have a great day!-6
Replies
-
Theoretically and in practice, you can obtain nutrients without eating. In the hospital, they can stick an IV in you and feed you through that, if they have to.
On your own, you can't get what you need on 300 calories. It messes up your organs. Your body is pretty well equipped to keep you alive in drastic times, but that takes a toll on all the organs. Muscles get eaten. Bones get broken down. It's a mess. And it is a freaking complicated mess. Most people don't understand it and those who do went to school for years in order to understand it, so it's not something that can be summed up in five minutes. If you REALLY wanted to learn it all, you could, but you'd have to go to school.
You should cut the crap with binge-restrict cycles. Regardless of what you weigh, it's taking it's toll. You're hurting yourself. So, stop.
See a doctor. Get a referral to a therapist who specializes in eating disorders and a dietician (if you don't have that already.)
Get good advice. Follow it.
Good luck!!0 -
Hi!
I'm surprised you haven't had a bunch of responses telling you that you'll starve your body and mess up your metabolism and such. What I've read does not support any of that. I only have 20~30 pounds to lose and when I asked my doc about going under 1000 calories a day, he had no problem at all. He suggested an additional B complex vitamin in addition to the generic multi-vitamin that I started taking and said that we could do blood work at 2 months to check that everything is going well. (I'm 45 days in.)
You should probably speak to your doc or perhaps you have a toll free number that you can call in your insurance plan. You may need more protein as well as a few carbs for 'brain food', but I would think that as long as you stay well hydrated and mind that you get your electrolytes your low calorie days will be fine. Electrolytes: sodium, calcium, magnesium and especially potassium. If you get those out of whack, you can be in trouble.
I do know that bariatric patients have to do VLC diets before and after surgery although I think they are also required to use some supplements. Which ones, I'm not sure.
Congratulation and best wishes!0 -
A very low calorie intake can do a lot of damage to your body. As an above poster stated, it breaks down your lean muscle mass, leaches essential nutrients from your bones which can make them brittle, and even steals mass from your internal organs. This can be due to the fact that your body can only break down fat stores so fast, so if it isn't getting enough calories from food and fat breakdown it has to get them from wherever it can (like muscle and organs) and from the fact that if you don't eat enough food that contains vitamins and nutrients that you need, your body will get them from wherever it can (like your bones).
The lack of hunger can be related to the hormones that control hunger signaling (leptin, ghrelin, etc.) getting out of whack from your extreme calorie reduction. Dizziness and fatigue can be related to anything from vitamin/ mineral deficiencies (lack of iron can cause anemia for a single example) to dehydration (we get a lot of your hydration from the food we eat) to simply not having enough energy to sustain normal bodily functions (your body breaks down food to a basic unit of energy called ATP. If you don't have the means to make enough ATP, your body doesn't have energy to power all of its functions properly).
It is unlikely that you can get all of the vitamins and nutrients you need from taking a supplement. For one thing, a supplement has a lot of things in it, but it doesn't have everything. Formulations are based on what people are most likely to not get enough of when eating, not on the idea that they are replacing every single vitamin and mineral that a human being needs to function. Also, a pill is a one shot deal -- you take it, it goes through your digestive system, your body grabs what it can, and everything else gets excreted with your waste. Your system can only uptake so much at one time, so consuming sources of vitamins and minerals throughout the day provides a constant string of opportunities for your body to get more of what it needs.
Some women do go on diets that are lower than 1200 calories, but this should ALWAYS be recommended and supervised by a doctor. And I don't care what your stats are, 350 calories a day is way too low to sustain a human being. It sounds to me like you have a serious disorder and you need to see a doctor ASAP.0 -
According to the National Institute of Health, VLCD (which does not go below 800 calories, by the way) should only be medically supervised. It is recommended that the patient be monitored every two weeks, and that no one should maintain a VLCD for more than 12 weeks. The most common lasting physical damage, even under medical supervision, is damage to the gallbladder or gallstones.
On top of that, VLCD are too hard to follow long term, resulting in regaining of the weight lost.
http://www.win.niddk.nih.gov/publications/low_calorie.htm
The research also shows that over the long term, the weight loss results from a VLCD and a normal low calorie diet (1200+ calories) were the same. The SAME. Why would you want to starve yourself and risk health problems for the SAME results?
300-400 calories is no way to live, and a sure way to damage your body. Please seek some help from a medical professional.0 -
Hi!
I'm surprised you haven't had a bunch of responses telling you that you'll starve your body and mess up your metabolism and such. What I've read does not support any of that. I only have 20~30 pounds to lose and when I asked my doc about going under 1000 calories a day, he had no problem at all. He suggested an additional B complex vitamin in addition to the generic multi-vitamin that I started taking and said that we could do blood work at 2 months to check that everything is going well. (I'm 45 days in.)
You should probably speak to your doc or perhaps you have a toll free number that you can call in your insurance plan. You may need more protein as well as a few carbs for 'brain food', but I would think that as long as you stay well hydrated and mind that you get your electrolytes your low calorie days will be fine. Electrolytes: sodium, calcium, magnesium and especially potassium. If you get those out of whack, you can be in trouble.
I do know that bariatric patients have to do VLC diets before and after surgery although I think they are also required to use some supplements. Which ones, I'm not sure.
Congratulation and best wishes!
Please be very careful telling someone who is only eating 350 calories a day congrats.0 -
Theoretically and in practice, you can obtain nutrients without eating. In the hospital, they can stick an IV in you and feed you through that, if they have to.
On your own, you can't get what you need on 300 calories. It messes up your organs. Your body is pretty well equipped to keep you alive in drastic times, but that takes a toll on all the organs. Muscles get eaten. Bones get broken down. It's a mess. And it is a freaking complicated mess. Most people don't understand it and those who do went to school for years in order to understand it, so it's not something that can be summed up in five minutes. If you REALLY wanted to learn it all, you could, but you'd have to go to school.
You should cut the crap with binge-restrict cycles. Regardless of what you weigh, it's taking it's toll. You're hurting yourself. So, stop.
See a doctor. Get a referral to a therapist who specializes in eating disorders and a dietician (if you don't have that already.)
Get good advice. Follow it.
Good luck!!
Hi,
Thanks for responding. I agree it is all a giant complicated mess.
My doctor is aware of my overall tendency to switch between the bingeing and restricting. I have an appt in a couple of weeks but really don't want to bother her with my mess, yet again. I've definitely received good advice multiple times in the past. I can tick along and follow it for a while but inevitably, it goes south. I think part of the problem is that I tend to go to my doctor or a therapist (don't currently have one) when I am immersed in this cycle. If I were to address it now? If they told me even 1,000 a day, I would find it outrageously high because I've been eating low.
A mess. A big freakin complicated mess.
0 -
Hi!
I'm surprised you haven't had a bunch of responses telling you that you'll starve your body and mess up your metabolism and such. What I've read does not support any of that. I only have 20~30 pounds to lose and when I asked my doc about going under 1000 calories a day, he had no problem at all. He suggested an additional B complex vitamin in addition to the generic multi-vitamin that I started taking and said that we could do blood work at 2 months to check that everything is going well. (I'm 45 days in.)
You should probably speak to your doc or perhaps you have a toll free number that you can call in your insurance plan. You may need more protein as well as a few carbs for 'brain food', but I would think that as long as you stay well hydrated and mind that you get your electrolytes your low calorie days will be fine. Electrolytes: sodium, calcium, magnesium and especially potassium. If you get those out of whack, you can be in trouble.
I do know that bariatric patients have to do VLC diets before and after surgery although I think they are also required to use some supplements. Which ones, I'm not sure.
Congratulation and best wishes!
Well, if people want to reiterate that going under 1200 is unhealthy, that's fine. I'm trying to get info so whatever anyone wants to share is welcomed and appreciated.
Good tip about the electrolytes and hydration. How far under a thousand did your doctor approve if you don't mind my asking?
0 -
According to the National Institute of Health, VLCD (which does not go below 800 calories, by the way) should only be medically supervised. It is recommended that the patient be monitored every two weeks, and that no one should maintain a VLCD for more than 12 weeks. The most common lasting physical damage, even under medical supervision, is damage to the gallbladder or gallstones.
On top of that, VLCD are too hard to follow long term, resulting in regaining of the weight lost.
http://www.win.niddk.nih.gov/publications/low_calorie.htm
The research also shows that over the long term, the weight loss results from a VLCD and a normal low calorie diet (1200+ calories) were the same. The SAME. Why would you want to starve yourself and risk health problems for the SAME results?
300-400 calories is no way to live, and a sure way to damage your body. Please seek some help from a medical professional.
0 -
According to the National Institute of Health, VLCD (which does not go below 800 calories, by the way) should only be medically supervised. It is recommended that the patient be monitored every two weeks, and that no one should maintain a VLCD for more than 12 weeks. The most common lasting physical damage, even under medical supervision, is damage to the gallbladder or gallstones.
On top of that, VLCD are too hard to follow long term, resulting in regaining of the weight lost.
http://www.win.niddk.nih.gov/publications/low_calorie.htm
The research also shows that over the long term, the weight loss results from a VLCD and a normal low calorie diet (1200+ calories) were the same. The SAME. Why would you want to starve yourself and risk health problems for the SAME results?
300-400 calories is no way to live, and a sure way to damage your body. Please seek some help from a medical professional.
HI,
Thanks for answering. Do you happen to know what they're checking for every 2 weeks when they are following someone on an 800 calorie diet? I've asked to be put one a medically monitored vlcd mainly to ignite the weight loss so I could get motivated but no one around here is willing to do it for me, probably because they know I have a history of bingeing and restricting.
As for getting the same results, it hasn't really been my experience. Almost 2 weeks when I was eating 1000 or so? I lost maybe 4 lbs. Same time frame now? 17.6lbs. I just have so much to lose that I feel like I have to get those big numbers or to my mind, I'm a failure.
-1 -
Theoretically and in practice, you can obtain nutrients without eating. In the hospital, they can stick an IV in you and feed you through that, if they have to.
On your own, you can't get what you need on 300 calories. It messes up your organs. Your body is pretty well equipped to keep you alive in drastic times, but that takes a toll on all the organs. Muscles get eaten. Bones get broken down. It's a mess. And it is a freaking complicated mess. Most people don't understand it and those who do went to school for years in order to understand it, so it's not something that can be summed up in five minutes. If you REALLY wanted to learn it all, you could, but you'd have to go to school.
You should cut the crap with binge-restrict cycles. Regardless of what you weigh, it's taking it's toll. You're hurting yourself. So, stop.
See a doctor. Get a referral to a therapist who specializes in eating disorders and a dietician (if you don't have that already.)
Get good advice. Follow it.
Good luck!!
Hi,
Thanks for responding. I agree it is all a giant complicated mess.
My doctor is aware of my overall tendency to switch between the bingeing and restricting. I have an appt in a couple of weeks but really don't want to bother her with my mess, yet again. I've definitely received good advice multiple times in the past. I can tick along and follow it for a while but inevitably, it goes south. I think part of the problem is that I tend to go to my doctor or a therapist (don't currently have one) when I am immersed in this cycle. If I were to address it now? If they told me even 1,000 a day, I would find it outrageously high because I've been eating low.
A mess. A big freakin complicated mess.
There is so much help out there! First, bother the doctor and get referrals for a therapist and dietician. GO to the therapist and see them regularly. Keep your appointments.
There are websites out there for recovery, too. OA meetings.
There is all kinds of help IF you want it.
If you want it, go get it! You have nothing to lose but a bunch of fat and unhappiness. 0 -
I don't think they meant any harm by it but this is one of the challenges I face. Because I have a lot to lose, when I do what I'm currently doing, I do lose and EVERY ONE tells me how great I'm doing and how good I look and of course, that does perpetuate it but people don't know the deeper deal so I can't blame them.
0 -
In just interested to know how you are getting in 50 grams of of protein with a net intake of around 350 cals? Is there a certain product you are using? Please tell.0
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Do you happen to know what they're checking for every 2 weeks when they are following someone on an 800 calorie diet?
Most likely they're doing your blood work to make sure you're not low on any nutrients, that your hormones aren't doing goofy, and that you haven't gotten hangry to the point of homicide.
0 -
A very low calorie intake can do a lot of damage to your body. As an above poster stated, it breaks down your lean muscle mass, leaches essential nutrients from your bones which can make them brittle, and even steals mass from your internal organs. This can be due to the fact that your body can only break down fat stores so fast, so if it isn't getting enough calories from food and fat breakdown it has to get them from wherever it can (like muscle and organs) and from the fact that if you don't eat enough food that contains vitamins and nutrients that you need, your body will get them from wherever it can (like your bones).
The lack of hunger can be related to the hormones that control hunger signaling (leptin, ghrelin, etc.) getting out of whack from your extreme calorie reduction. Dizziness and fatigue can be related to anything from vitamin/ mineral deficiencies (lack of iron can cause anemia for a single example) to dehydration (we get a lot of your hydration from the food we eat) to simply not having enough energy to sustain normal bodily functions (your body breaks down food to a basic unit of energy called ATP. If you don't have the means to make enough ATP, your body doesn't have energy to power all of its functions properly).
It is unlikely that you can get all of the vitamins and nutrients you need from taking a supplement. For one thing, a supplement has a lot of things in it, but it doesn't have everything. Formulations are based on what people are most likely to not get enough of when eating, not on the idea that they are replacing every single vitamin and mineral that a human being needs to function. Also, a pill is a one shot deal -- you take it, it goes through your digestive system, your body grabs what it can, and everything else gets excreted with your waste. Your system can only uptake so much at one time, so consuming sources of vitamins and minerals throughout the day provides a constant string of opportunities for your body to get more of what it needs.
Some women do go on diets that are lower than 1200 calories, but this should ALWAYS be recommended and supervised by a doctor. And I don't care what your stats are, 350 calories a day is way too low to sustain a human being. It sounds to me like you have a serious disorder and you need to see a doctor ASAP.
Great info and some explanations I was looking for. Thank you so much!
0 -
In just interested to know how you are getting in 50 grams of of protein with a net intake of around 350 cals? Is there a certain product you are using? Please tell.
Sure.
Tuna creations 80 calorie pouches have 14 grams of protein.
Thin n Trim deli turkey has 10 grams for 60 calories in 2-3 slices.
Trader Joe's meatless vegan beef crumbles has 10 grams for 60 calories.
Baked chicken breast has 18 grams in 2 oz. for 100 calories.
300 calories, 52 grams of protein.
I have other things I try to use too but these are my go to's.
0 -
The only time and way to ever go on a VLCD is under the direct supervision and direction of a doctor. Quit trying to figure out how to bypass that requirement.0
-
I made the mistake of doing the hCG diet (homeopathic drops with no real hCG). It was a 500-calorie diet and it caused so many serious problems for me. More than a year and a half later and I'm wondering if the kidney infections I've had since are related since I wasn't prone since. When I ended up under a doctor's care during the diet, I was told my body was cannibalizing my organs to get the nutrients it needed. It also dropped my ferritin and iron to almost nothing. Since I had just had them checked weeks before and they were perfect, there was no doubt it was the diet.
Don't do it! Biggest mistake of my life was this diet.0 -
According to the National Institute of Health, VLCD (which does not go below 800 calories, by the way) should only be medically supervised. It is recommended that the patient be monitored every two weeks, and that no one should maintain a VLCD for more than 12 weeks. The most common lasting physical damage, even under medical supervision, is damage to the gallbladder or gallstones.
On top of that, VLCD are too hard to follow long term, resulting in regaining of the weight lost.
http://www.win.niddk.nih.gov/publications/low_calorie.htm
The research also shows that over the long term, the weight loss results from a VLCD and a normal low calorie diet (1200+ calories) were the same. The SAME. Why would you want to starve yourself and risk health problems for the SAME results?
300-400 calories is no way to live, and a sure way to damage your body. Please seek some help from a medical professional.
HI,
Thanks for answering. Do you happen to know what they're checking for every 2 weeks when they are following someone on an 800 calorie diet? I've asked to be put one a medically monitored vlcd mainly to ignite the weight loss so I could get motivated but no one around here is willing to do it for me, probably because they know I have a history of bingeing and restricting.
As for getting the same results, it hasn't really been my experience. Almost 2 weeks when I was eating 1000 or so? I lost maybe 4 lbs. Same time frame now? 17.6lbs. I just have so much to lose that I feel like I have to get those big numbers or to my mind, I'm a failure.
Read what you wrote, especially the bit that I've bolded.
Even if there were nothing physiologically dangerous about a 350 cal diet (and there is, even in those who are obese), your eating issues and a VLCD do NOT mix.
0 -
brianpperkins wrote: »The only time and way to ever go on a VLCD is under the direct supervision and direction of a doctor. Quit trying to figure out how to bypass that requirement.
Bypass it? I've asked my doctor who referred me to the weight specialists at the hospital I go to who looked at my history and said "Uh, No. We fear it would activate restriction."
I asked for the weight loss surgery. "Uh, no. We would never perform that surgery on you with your history." I am pretty sure NOT bypassing it and having all these people previously involved in my weight loss efforts is what semi-screwed me now.
So, I have asked multiple doctors and nutritionists and therapists for the help I think I need but haven't gotten anywhere other than told to do. The only thing any of them are willing to do is monitor a program that starts at 1800 a day to produce a loss of .5-2lbs a week.0
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