Protein requirements and body weight

lfrazier2482

I really did search for an answer before I posted this. A little background. I did weight watchers for awhile and had some success. I decided to try MFP to see how the numbers compared. I wasn't getting near enough protein in my diet. MFP averages between 100-115 grams of protein a day. I have been getting close to that. I am a 5'8 and 302 lbs male. I am pretty sedentary during the day and walk a little over 4 miles a day, six days a week, at a little under 4 mph. I am not doing any intense cardio or weight training yet. While researching protein requirements I saw that some people were saying you need .8 to 1 gram of protein for every pound of body weight. Others said that wasn't necessary unless your BMI was close to goal or you were doing strength training. Still others said it was crucial even if you are obese (like me) when you losing body weight pretty fast to avoid losing muscle mass. I have been losing around three pounds a week for awhile now. I am a pretty big guy so I heard thats ok. I am now confused as to what my daily protein requirements should be. Do I need to increase my protein intake? My diary is public if that helps. Any other critiques of my diet would be appreciated.

BigGuy47

MFP protein targets are low. Trying to determine the proper amount is confusing because some sources will say .75 to 1g/lb of bodyweight and others say .75 to 1g/lb of lean body mass. It looks like you're averaging around 100g/day, that's low considering your size. You should be closer to 200g/day.

Keep it mind even if you get enough protein it doesn't mean you won't lose muscle mass. Along with a proper diet you need to incorporate some form of resistance training to reduce muscle loss. You're far better off trying to keep the muscles you have as opposed to losing the weight and then trying to put muscles back on again. Losing weight is much easier than putting on muscle - particularly if you are older.

heybales

Several studies have shown no benefit to helping retain muscle mass eating over 0.82 grams per lb of bodyweight.
If no liver problems, more isn't a problem if you desire, many find it satisfies better than carbs. But I'm betting with your diet goal, that's high enough anyway.

The other way to look at it that requires a rough bodyfat % is 1 g per lb of LBM.

But 0.75 to .82 will help retain muscle mass.
Along with resistance training.
Along with reasonable deficit.

With a TDEE for that 360 min of walking weekly around 4000 calories, you could be eating around 2250 for a short while for 3.6 lbs weekly.
But that would shortly not be reasonable, and eating level would need to come up.
But that leaves resistance training to do, full body to engage all the muscles, which frankly right now the lower body is engaged with walking to move the mass, but need the upper body engaged.
That will increase TDEE more and eating level more too when done.

That leaves protein levels. Agree on 200 now.
That means the % for that eating level would be 30/35/35 for C/P/F.
But that would change if time was done with resistance training upper body increasing TDEE.

Stats BTW gotten from the spreadsheet on my profile page. Simple Setup tab only.

cajuntank

Just a little clarification. What you "need" is minimal and what MFP will set for you. What you will see people mention is based on what you "want" for body composition if you are engaged in weight training and/or to make dieting a little easier since protein is satiating (feeling full).

SideSteel

Alan Aragon has a pretty solid method for estimating macronutrient requirements based on goal weight and it tends to get you in a reasonable ball-park.

Rog Law outlines that method here:
http://roglawfitness.com/macronutrient-madness-whats-in-your-bucket/

Sam_I_Am77

lfrazier2482 wrote: »

I really did search for an answer before I posted this. A little background. I did weight watchers for awhile and had some success. I decided to try MFP to see how the numbers compared. I wasn't getting near enough protein in my diet. MFP averages between 100-115 grams of protein a day. I have been getting close to that. I am a 5'8 and 302 lbs male. I am pretty sedentary during the day and walk a little over 4 miles a day, six days a week, at a little under 4 mph. I am not doing any intense cardio or weight training yet. While researching protein requirements I saw that some people were saying you need .8 to 1 gram of protein for every pound of body weight. Others said that wasn't necessary unless your BMI was close to goal or you were doing strength training. Still others said it was crucial even if you are obese (like me) when you losing body weight pretty fast to avoid losing muscle mass. I have been losing around three pounds a week for awhile now. I am a pretty big guy so I heard thats ok. I am now confused as to what my daily protein requirements should be. Do I need to increase my protein intake? My diary is public if that helps. Any other critiques of my diet would be appreciated.

Above SideSteel mentions Alan Aragon who is a well-respected academic in nutrition, so information from Mr. Aragon would be useful if you can find it.

There is definitely no reason to go above 1gm / lb of bodyweight in protein. One study indicates pre-contest BB's benefit from 3gm's / kg but that's a very specific group of people and goals. There is also research around the thermogenic properties of protein. I can definitely understand your confusion on protein consumption because there is a considerable amount of research on this subject and recommendations range from 1.4gm's / KG of BW to 2.38gm's / kg. I would say that as long as you're getting 0.8gm's / LB of BW you're going to be just fine with your nutrition plan. Make sure to get adequate fat calories to promote healthy hormone function (25% - 30% of calories) and you'll be doing well.

Sam_I_Am77

heybales wrote: »

Several studies have shown no benefit to helping retain muscle mass eating over 0.82 grams per lb of bodyweight.

And there are studies that show value at 2.10 and 2.38grams / KG. Some of the variability lies within the participant group being studied. Is the research on elderly, athletes, resistance-trained men in-between 20 and 30, etc?

Cortelli

When I am trying to lose fat, I target approximately 1.2g per pound of lean body mass, based in part on the studies reviewed in the link below, in part on the theory that too much is better than too little while cutting, and in part because protein is found in foods I find tasty and satiating. You'd need to know approximately your lean body mass to make use of this approach, but a guestimate of somewhere around 150 probably isn't too far off. Note that the study I mentioned was focused on relatively lean, already resistance-trained individuals.

Allow me one suggestion beyond your protein level question -- start doing some resistance training sooner rather than later. Lift weights, body weight exercises, calisthenics, whatever you can do to impose some resistance work on your muscles. Protein is one piece of the "minimize muscle loss" puzzle, but resistance training appears to be a more important piece.

Link to thread by Sara re Eric Helms research: community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1158604

Link to another thread re: same research with some good discussion: community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1167386

heybales

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

heybales wrote: »

Several studies have shown no benefit to helping retain muscle mass eating over 0.82 grams per lb of bodyweight.

And there are studies that show value at 2.10 and 2.38grams / KG. Some of the variability lies within the participant group being studied. Is the research on elderly, athletes, resistance-trained men in-between 20 and 30, etc?

True. This is reference to several studies, why selected, why useful, and when this max was useful.

http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

Sam_I_Am77

heybales wrote: »

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

heybales wrote: »

Several studies have shown no benefit to helping retain muscle mass eating over 0.82 grams per lb of bodyweight.

And there are studies that show value at 2.10 and 2.38grams / KG. Some of the variability lies within the participant group being studied. Is the research on elderly, athletes, resistance-trained men in-between 20 and 30, etc?

True. This is reference to several studies, why selected, why useful, and when this max was useful.

http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

The only thing I would say about this is that many of the articles are over 10 years old an many are related to strength athletes so it's semi-out of context in this situation. My professor verbally kicks our *kitten* if we use anything older than 10 years for reference. lol

geneticsteacher

From the CDC:


Recommended Dietary Allowance for Protein
Grams of protein
needed each day
Children ages 1 – 3 13
Children ages 4 – 8 19
Children ages 9 – 13 34
Girls ages 14 – 18 46
Boys ages 14 – 18 52
Women ages 19 – 70+ 46
Men ages 19 – 70+ 56


I fall in the women ages 19-70+ group and it is normal for me to get 45-46 grams a day. It is really difficult to get the 60 grams MFP has listed.

heybales

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

heybales wrote: »

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

heybales wrote: »

Several studies have shown no benefit to helping retain muscle mass eating over 0.82 grams per lb of bodyweight.

And there are studies that show value at 2.10 and 2.38grams / KG. Some of the variability lies within the participant group being studied. Is the research on elderly, athletes, resistance-trained men in-between 20 and 30, etc?

True. This is reference to several studies, why selected, why useful, and when this max was useful.

http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

The only thing I would say about this is that many of the articles are over 10 years old an many are related to strength athletes so it's semi-out of context in this situation. My professor verbally kicks our *kitten* if we use anything older than 10 years for reference. lol

Even when more recent studies don't invalidate them, but weren't used because they weren't as extensive?
You also may have scanned and just looked at dates, because 5 or more are more recent than 10 yrs.

And related to body builder's who didn't want to lose any muscle mass for show, not strength athletes. Slight difference.

And very useful as far as useful upper limit in this context. If that is max useful figure for those in that state, how much more useful for those in this state of OP.

lfrazier2482

You guys have provided me with a lot to chew on. The Rog Law site is funny as hell. Thank you. For now I am going to try and shoot for 200 grams of protein a day. I don't quite know how I am going to do this and stay in my calorie goal yet, but I will figure it out. Probably some protein powder of some kind. I am also going to try and incorporate some resistance training for my upper body. I also don't believe my fitbit when it says that I am getting 500 calories from an hour walk, but that is not necessarily a topic for this thread. Having so recently switched over from weight watchers I don't really have a lot of hard numbers to work with yet. I just need to be patient while I try and piece this thing together. Once again, thanks all for your input.

Sam_I_Am77

geneticsteacher wrote: »

From the CDC:


Recommended Dietary Allowance for Protein
Grams of protein
needed each day
Children ages 1 – 3 13
Children ages 4 – 8 19
Children ages 9 – 13 34
Girls ages 14 – 18 46
Boys ages 14 – 18 52
Women ages 19 – 70+ 46
Men ages 19 – 70+ 56


I fall in the women ages 19-70+ group and it is normal for me to get 45-46 grams a day. It is really difficult to get the 60 grams MFP has listed.

Remember that a lot of this stuff is reported as a mean (average) and isn't always relevant. You cannot make a blanket statement recommendation like that.

Even when more recent studies don't invalidate them, but weren't used because they weren't as extensive?
You also may have scanned and just looked at dates, because 5 or more are more recent than 10 yrs.

And related to body builder's who didn't want to lose any muscle mass for show, not strength athletes. Slight difference.

And very useful as far as useful upper limit in this context. If that is max useful figure for those in that state, how much more useful for those in this state of OP.

My professor is a member of the ISSN and I've seen him destroy people, myself included, for better research than what is presented there.