Periodization Lifting Program: Am I wasting my 'noob gains'?
frannie078
Posts: 21 Member
I recently came across a lifting program that I would like to try, however, given that it is a 'Periodization Plan' I'm wondering how I can tell if I've maxed out my 'noob gains' and is there any harm in starting a plan like this if I haven't?
The plan I'm referring to is Jonnie Candito's 6 Week Strength Program. The reason that I'm drawn to it is that I like the upper/lower body split, and the fact that I can add in some optional bodybuilding type exercises that I enjoy along with the main powerlifting moves. I was previously working with a PT (since July 2014) who had me doing a linear program of squats, deadlifts and bench presses but I found it a) boring to not have a variety in the exercises, reps and sets, and b) I found it discouraging because there were many weeks where I couldn't increase my weight lifted at all. He also had me doing pyramid sets (10,8,6,4 reps with the weight increasing each time), but I found that particularly ineffective as I was worn out by the last (and heaviest) set.
I'm not training for any kind of competition, and my ego doesn't mind that I can only squat 95 pounds right now, so is a periodization program that keeps me interested and features exercises that I enjoy okay? Or am I doing myself a major disservice by not sticking with a linear plan until I am certain that I have maxed out those noob gains? (Or is it possible that I have already maxed them out, and hence the lack of consistent progress?)
PS Would love to have some more weight lifting MFP friends for encouragement, motivation and random rants and questions, so feel free to add me!
The plan I'm referring to is Jonnie Candito's 6 Week Strength Program. The reason that I'm drawn to it is that I like the upper/lower body split, and the fact that I can add in some optional bodybuilding type exercises that I enjoy along with the main powerlifting moves. I was previously working with a PT (since July 2014) who had me doing a linear program of squats, deadlifts and bench presses but I found it a) boring to not have a variety in the exercises, reps and sets, and b) I found it discouraging because there were many weeks where I couldn't increase my weight lifted at all. He also had me doing pyramid sets (10,8,6,4 reps with the weight increasing each time), but I found that particularly ineffective as I was worn out by the last (and heaviest) set.
I'm not training for any kind of competition, and my ego doesn't mind that I can only squat 95 pounds right now, so is a periodization program that keeps me interested and features exercises that I enjoy okay? Or am I doing myself a major disservice by not sticking with a linear plan until I am certain that I have maxed out those noob gains? (Or is it possible that I have already maxed them out, and hence the lack of consistent progress?)
PS Would love to have some more weight lifting MFP friends for encouragement, motivation and random rants and questions, so feel free to add me!
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It is a good program and if you enjoy it that is what is important. You should also not have any issues progressing on it. It might be a slower progression than his linear program but if you are not training for a competition then that does not matter.
IMO there is not a time limit on noob gains. We will all reach our quick gain limit eventually. Then it starts to get really slow for additional improvements.
If we are talking about muscle gain: say there is a guy that has the potential to gain 10 pounds in the first year and only 5 pounds the second. I dont think he loses out on those pounds if he took a slower approach. Maybe he gained 7 pounds the first year but because he still had room to grow he was able to add 7 in the second year also.
Within 3-4 years he would end up in the same place grinding for the 1-2 lbs per year from then on.
Strength gains can come very quickly also. They may be able to come fast enough that they outpace our bodies ability to recover. This is usually what happen in a linear program where you eventually reach a stall point and have to reset.
If you follow the periodized program you might never hit that stall and progress continues eventually both methods end up near our maxes and probably not far from each other as far time.0 -
Remember that "noob gainz" is largely an improvement in your nervous system adaptation to the exercise. Don't get caught-up in beginner training versus, intermediate. Much of the reason for "beginner" training is the simplicity of the programming and just learning the core movements. For some people with no exposure to training, something like 5/3/1 or Cube Method can be "daunting" for a lack of better words. Then there's the whole argument putting plates on the bar faster than other programs so it must be better right?0
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Have you looked into all the aspects of the program itself and decided that you would be able to handle the work load?
I am reading the PDF now and I personally alway felt the periodization was not a good start for a true beginner. Have you looked into any other upper lower splits that weren't periodization?
You realize something like SL5x5 is a form of linear periodization and at a quick glance JC's 6week appears to be a form of block periodization.
JC is a pretty smart guy for his age. If you understand what he wants you to do with the program than do it for one complete cycle and then re-evaluate. This program appears to be based on a 1RM, so calculate your 1RM off of maybe an 8 to 10-rep max and be conservative in the estimation; it's okay to start too light.
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Whats your goal? progress or having fun? Accessory lifts aren't for spicing up your workout, they are for helping weaker areas and further developing the main lifts. I don't think you'll have the know how to use the program correctly. But, you're probably gonna do it anyhow, so, good luck.0
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Let's see without attempting to type at me as if I'm some super noob, explain to me how SL is a periodization program and not a linear progression program?Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »Have you looked into all the aspects of the program itself and decided that you would be able to handle the work load?
I am reading the PDF now and I personally alway felt the periodization was not a good start for a true beginner. Have you looked into any other upper lower splits that weren't periodization?
You realize something like SL5x5 is a form of linear periodization and at a quick glance JC's 6week appears to be a form of block periodization.
JC is a pretty smart guy for his age. If you understand what he wants you to do with the program than do it for one complete cycle and then re-evaluate. This program appears to be based on a 1RM, so calculate your 1RM off of maybe an 8 to 10-rep max and be conservative in the estimation; it's okay to start too light.
I'm not trying to call you a noob or insult you, I don't want the OP to confused with interchanging various terms and what-not. Periodization is a progressive cycling of a training program. With something like SL5x5 you are progressively increasing the weight and when you hit a plateau you back off and either start over or switch to 3x5. Periodization and Progression are basically the same thing term.
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astronomicals wrote: »Whats your goal? progress or having fun? Accessory lifts aren't for spicing up your workout, they are for helping weaker areas and further developing the main lifts. I don't think you'll have the know how to use the program correctly. But, you're probably gonna do it anyhow, so, good luck.
If she can read, which I'm sure she can, the program is pretty straight-forward. Candito's training plan is just another way to train.0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »Have you looked into all the aspects of the program itself and decided that you would be able to handle the work load?
I am reading the PDF now and I personally alway felt the periodization was not a good start for a true beginner. Have you looked into any other upper lower splits that weren't periodization?
You realize something like SL5x5 is a form of linear periodization and at a quick glance JC's 6week appears to be a form of block periodization.
JC is a pretty smart guy for his age. If you understand what he wants you to do with the program than do it for one complete cycle and then re-evaluate. This program appears to be based on a 1RM, so calculate your 1RM off of maybe an 8 to 10-rep max and be conservative in the estimation; it's okay to start too light.
SL is a linear progression program.
JC has a linear progression program as well if I'm not mistaken.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »Have you looked into all the aspects of the program itself and decided that you would be able to handle the work load?
I am reading the PDF now and I personally alway felt the periodization was not a good start for a true beginner. Have you looked into any other upper lower splits that weren't periodization?
You realize something like SL5x5 is a form of linear periodization and at a quick glance JC's 6week appears to be a form of block periodization.
JC is a pretty smart guy for his age. If you understand what he wants you to do with the program than do it for one complete cycle and then re-evaluate. This program appears to be based on a 1RM, so calculate your 1RM off of maybe an 8 to 10-rep max and be conservative in the estimation; it's okay to start too light.
SL is a linear progression program.
JC has a linear progression program as well if I'm not mistaken.
LOL, Google the term periodization as it relates to weight lifting. You'll notice the word "progression" in there.0 -
In linear progression you are not manipulating any variables, just simply adding weight between each session or week.
In periodization you are manipulating other variables such as percentages, reps sets etc.0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »astronomicals wrote: »Whats your goal? progress or having fun? Accessory lifts aren't for spicing up your workout, they are for helping weaker areas and further developing the main lifts. I don't think you'll have the know how to use the program correctly. But, you're probably gonna do it anyhow, so, good luck.
If she can read, which I'm sure she can, the program is pretty straight-forward. Candito's training plan is just another way to train.
The program is full of autoregulation which is noob isnt capable of competently doing. I looked at the PDF on canditotraininghq. What did you look at?
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LolBroScience wrote: »In linear progression you are not manipulating any variables, just simply adding weight between each session or week.
In periodization you are manipulating other variables such as percentages, reps sets etc.
Load, weight, % of 1RM (whatever you want to call it, semantics) is an acute training variable. So if you are changing the weight each session you are effectively changing an acute training variable. By your definition if we're manipulating a variable we are effectively periodizing the program.II. Linear Periodization
Before I begin, let me say that block periodization is an example of linear periodization, but not all linear periodization programs are done in
a block periodization format. Linear periodization is exactly what you think it is: it’s a planned-progression program that has the lifter
perform the same set-and-rep scheme every week while adding X amount of weight. Normally, that weight is five pounds per weekThe program is full of autoregulation which is noob isnt capable of competently doing. I looked at the PDF on canditotraininghq. What did you look at?
Why do you have to insult the OP. If she's literate, she can do it; this isn't rocket science. It's not entirely straight-forward as something like SL5x5 or SS but this isn't horrible to learn by any means. I wouldn't personally recommend this for her but if she's interested she should try and learn it and run it for one complete cycle, she can re-evaluate when she's done.0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »In linear progression you are not manipulating any variables, just simply adding weight between each session or week.
In periodization you are manipulating other variables such as percentages, reps sets etc.
Load, weight, % of 1RM (whatever you want to call it, semantics) is an acute training variable. So if you are changing the weight each session you are effectively changing an acute training variable. By your definition if we're manipulating a variable we are effectively periodizing the program.II. Linear Periodization
Before I begin, let me say that block periodization is an example of linear periodization, but not all linear periodization programs are done in
a block periodization format. Linear periodization is exactly what you think it is: it’s a planned-progression program that has the lifter
perform the same set-and-rep scheme every week while adding X amount of weight. Normally, that weight is five pounds per week
You know what I meant by variables. Yes, you're increasing weight week to week; however, nothing else changes.0 -
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I'd say go for it.
If beginner programmes bore you and you end up skipping workouts, well, you'll waste your gains anyway.
If you think you'll enjoy the one you're looking at more, I'd give it a bash.0 -
Stating that a novice doesn't have the know how to self regulate a program is NOT an insult. Most will balance volume poorly and overwork their strong points while under working their weak points. There is a reason why noobs shouldn't form their own programs and its not because they are unintelligent. They dont have the training experience to know whats best/needed.
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LolBroScience wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »In linear progression you are not manipulating any variables, just simply adding weight between each session or week.
In periodization you are manipulating other variables such as percentages, reps sets etc.
Load, weight, % of 1RM (whatever you want to call it, semantics) is an acute training variable. So if you are changing the weight each session you are effectively changing an acute training variable. By your definition if we're manipulating a variable we are effectively periodizing the program.II. Linear Periodization
Before I begin, let me say that block periodization is an example of linear periodization, but not all linear periodization programs are done in
a block periodization format. Linear periodization is exactly what you think it is: it’s a planned-progression program that has the lifter
perform the same set-and-rep scheme every week while adding X amount of weight. Normally, that weight is five pounds per week
You know what I meant by variables. Yes, you're increasing weight week to week; however, nothing else changes.
Re-read the definition of Linear Periodization I posted. NASM defines periodization as "a systematic approach to program design." Is SL5x5 not systematic in-nature. Day A do this, next Day A add 5lbs, Next Day A, add 5lbs, sounds pretty systematic.
@Mr M: I've read it and all I have to say is I think Mehdi did a good job of introducing basic strength training to people in a way that's easily digestable and easy to execute. Although Rippletoe and Starr did it years before, Mehdi just was better at using the internet. With that being said, he took an existing training philosophy and put a label on it, that's it. I have little respect for anything he says.
Either way arguing about semantics is ridiculous and you can consider this progression or whatever else you want to, doesn't matter to me; I was only posting for the OP. Checking out...
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MrM27 - you do realize SL 5x5 is based on something Reg Park created in the 60s, right? Mehdi just marketed it well. Which good for him, that doesn't make him an expert though.0
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Not saying he's a dummy, in fact with the traffic out there from Tony Horton, et al, he's fairly savvy to have been able to cut through all that *kitten* to have his product come up high, and as a free to play product.
It doesn't mean he understands the reason 5x5 is effective, and creating programming beyond it. I did a little looking into his education, and essentially found nothing beyond what he would have used as an IT person. It doesn't mean he doesn't know, but if you strip away his ownership of the SL 5x5 brand, I don't see anything that makes him an expert.
Then again, for all I know there is a whole body of sports performance research from him I've been unable to find.0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »In linear progression you are not manipulating any variables, just simply adding weight between each session or week.
In periodization you are manipulating other variables such as percentages, reps sets etc.
Load, weight, % of 1RM (whatever you want to call it, semantics) is an acute training variable. So if you are changing the weight each session you are effectively changing an acute training variable. By your definition if we're manipulating a variable we are effectively periodizing the program.II. Linear Periodization
Before I begin, let me say that block periodization is an example of linear periodization, but not all linear periodization programs are done in
a block periodization format. Linear periodization is exactly what you think it is: it’s a planned-progression program that has the lifter
perform the same set-and-rep scheme every week while adding X amount of weight. Normally, that weight is five pounds per week
You know what I meant by variables. Yes, you're increasing weight week to week; however, nothing else changes.
Re-read the definition of Linear Periodization I posted. NASM defines periodization as "a systematic approach to program design." Is SL5x5 not systematic in-nature. Day A do this, next Day A add 5lbs, Next Day A, add 5lbs, sounds pretty systematic.
@Mr M: I've read it and all I have to say is I think Mehdi did a good job of introducing basic strength training to people in a way that's easily digestable and easy to execute. Although Rippletoe and Starr did it years before, Mehdi just was better at using the internet. With that being said, he took an existing training philosophy and put a label on it, that's it. I have little respect for anything he says.
Either way arguing about semantics is ridiculous and you can consider this progression or whatever else you want to, doesn't matter to me; I was only posting for the OP. Checking out...
My NASM per the 4th edition revised defines periodization as "Division of a training program into smaller progressive stages".
Practical Programming for Strength Training defines it as "A term most frequently used when referring to the organization of weight training programming into periods of time longer than the interval between two workouts."0 -
That pretty much makes it simple to see SL 5x5 as a block in a periodization program, OR can be used in cycles as a periodization program. Each cycle through 5x5 being a smaller, progressive stage. Or the shifting from 5x5 to an intermediate progra would also fulfill the "smaller progressive stages" parameter.0
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6 weeks isn't enough to even notice a large difference. I love Candito training but you'll need to do several cycles of it.
Follow something that forces you to improve over a long period of time. 5/3/1 is also very good for lifters or something like 8/6/4 for non competitors.0 -
That pretty much makes it simple to see SL 5x5 as a block in a periodization program, OR can be used in cycles as a periodization program. Each cycle through 5x5 being a smaller, progressive stage. Or the shifting from 5x5 to an intermediate progra would also fulfill the "smaller progressive stages" parameter.
If you really want to try and stretch the definition so be it... but you're not manipulating volume and intensity in SL, and the progression is still from workout to workout. Those additional variables don't need to be manipulated because the stress and adaptation cycle of a beginner is much shorter.
Shifting from SL to an intermediate program would potentially fit that criteria if you look at it under the scope of a beginner lifter who planned out an entire years worth of training with the intention of moving into that program. However, highly unlikely I'd say... considering beginners don't know what they're doing generally speaking.
In any event... to answer OP... the only real downside to running a periodized plan versus one that has linear progression is that you may not progress as fast as you potentially could. So, that depends how important the time factor is to you.0 -
That just means you're adjusting fewer variables. You're still adjusting magnitude, and I think one could argue intensity. ( How many lifters go in and attack it like it owes them a slice of pie? So intensity is always a variable.)
It's not a matter of stretching the definition, definitions are by their nature either accurate or not. In this case it is accurate, particularly in the technical sense, which as all internet users know, is the best sense.
At the end of the day, it's still going to break a few eggs and make a few omelets. Now, if you want to talk about efficiency, then I think an argument can be made that using it as a cornerstone of a periodization program for an event is a poor choice.0 -
Now boys...did this turn into a pissing contest? you guys got my head spinning! OP called herself a "'noob". I think helping her form a plan would be better than trying to prove who is right. Right?
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