Advice Needed! Lifting to Burn Fat and Tone
renedipeach
Posts: 9 Member
A friend of mine is a registered personal trainer, but also a body builder. She has given me dieting tips and a few workout routines, but I'm not sure the routines she's given me really cater to my goals.
I have been losing weight for 8+ months and am down to the last 5lbs until my goal. She gave me a very strict six day plan that includes weight lifting daily to target one muscle groups per day. I am doing 4 sets per exercise and adding 5lbs each set (ex: sets of 20, 15, 15, 12 and increasing weight each time the set number decreases.)
It seems a bit contradictory to what I see out there for general weightloss. From what I've researched doing heavier weights for less reps burns far more, and doing full body three days a week is beneficial. She also set out specific cardio for each day (high intensity runs, stairs) but having set cardio I must do almost stresses me out as opposed to being a stress reliever.
I would just like a second opinion on the best way to weight lift if you are trying to burn fat, but also tone up (but not like a body builder.)
Thanks!
I have been losing weight for 8+ months and am down to the last 5lbs until my goal. She gave me a very strict six day plan that includes weight lifting daily to target one muscle groups per day. I am doing 4 sets per exercise and adding 5lbs each set (ex: sets of 20, 15, 15, 12 and increasing weight each time the set number decreases.)
It seems a bit contradictory to what I see out there for general weightloss. From what I've researched doing heavier weights for less reps burns far more, and doing full body three days a week is beneficial. She also set out specific cardio for each day (high intensity runs, stairs) but having set cardio I must do almost stresses me out as opposed to being a stress reliever.
I would just like a second opinion on the best way to weight lift if you are trying to burn fat, but also tone up (but not like a body builder.)
Thanks!
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Replies
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Don't worry, you won't get a bodybuilder physique without years of bulking and cutting combined with adequate training and protein. It is an intentional process and doesn't happen by accident.
To lose fat, calorie deficit is the most important factor. Macro balance will aid in body composition. I, personally, prefer a 3 day full body split like All Pro just for convenience. Weightlifting will aid in muscle retention which will help you look leaner at goal. As far as cardio, that's up to you. I lost 53 lbs in 9 months just lifting 3 days a week and minor cardio (dancing games for 30 minutes a few days a week).
If you are not enjoying the training you're doing. Do something else! Definitely no reason to be miserable. After all, if you intend to maintain when you're finished I'd find a program you enjoy!-1 -
BombshellPhoenix wrote: »Don't worry, you won't get a bodybuilder physique without years of bulking and cutting combined with adequate training and protein. It is an intentional process and doesn't happen by accident.
To lose fat, calorie deficit is the most important factor. Macro balance will aid in body composition. I, personally, prefer a 3 day full body split like All Pro just for convenience. Weightlifting will aid in muscle retention which will help you look leaner at goal. As far as cardio, that's up to you. I lost 53 lbs in 9 months just lifting 3 days a week and minor cardio (dancing games for 30 minutes a few days a week).
If you are not enjoying the training you're doing. Do something else! Definitely no reason to be miserable. After all, if you intend to maintain when you're finished I'd find a program you enjoy!
Thanks for the input, and congrats on your 53lbs off! I know it takes a crazy diet and months to gain a body building physique, I just wasn't sure if the workout she gave me is catered towards building muscle over weight loss.
I've become more stressed because of the length this workout takes me each day (up to 2 hours, going in the morning and afternoon/night) and feeling guilty if I can't fit it into my schedule. I'm thinking cutting back a bit and doing the cardio I'm in the mood for will still get me there as long as I am dieting properly. Fingers crossed!0 -
renedipeach wrote: »She gave me a very strict six day plan that includes weight lifting daily to target one muscle groups per day. I am doing 4 sets per exercise and adding 5lbs each set (ex: sets of 20, 15, 15, 12 and increasing weight each time the set number decreases.)
Working one muscle group per day puts a lot of stress on each body part, so it's better suited for advanced lifters. Newbies tend to do better on a full-body program done every 2-3 days, or an upper/lower body split. Mostly compound exercises, mostly freeweights. Decent programs include NROL and Stronglifts, or use the one in my profile. It only takes 30-45 minutes.
Heavier weight & lower reps generally is better, HOWEVER, it's good for newbies to start at lower weight & higher reps, because it's safer that way. The extra repetitions improves motor learning (movement skills) and the lower weight reduces the chance of injury if your form is off.
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renedipeach wrote: »BombshellPhoenix wrote: »Don't worry, you won't get a bodybuilder physique without years of bulking and cutting combined with adequate training and protein. It is an intentional process and doesn't happen by accident.
To lose fat, calorie deficit is the most important factor. Macro balance will aid in body composition. I, personally, prefer a 3 day full body split like All Pro just for convenience. Weightlifting will aid in muscle retention which will help you look leaner at goal. As far as cardio, that's up to you. I lost 53 lbs in 9 months just lifting 3 days a week and minor cardio (dancing games for 30 minutes a few days a week).
If you are not enjoying the training you're doing. Do something else! Definitely no reason to be miserable. After all, if you intend to maintain when you're finished I'd find a program you enjoy!
Thanks for the input, and congrats on your 53lbs off! I know it takes a crazy diet and months to gain a body building physique, I just wasn't sure if the workout she gave me is catered towards building muscle over weight loss.
I've become more stressed because of the length this workout takes me each day (up to 2 hours, going in the morning and afternoon/night) and feeling guilty if I can't fit it into my schedule. I'm thinking cutting back a bit and doing the cardio I'm in the mood for will still get me there as long as I am dieting properly. Fingers crossed!
Months? More like years. I even went through a slight bulking phase with lifting over a 7 month period and don't even come close to having the muscle mass required to compete as a bodybuilder.
That being said, keep in mind if you're eating in a deficit, you won't be building muscle or at least not very much (There's a small adaptation window for small noob gains and I won't throw out the idea that you can gain a teeny bit, even in a deficit) . Women in a calorie surplus who are newbs to bulking would be lucky to gain 12 lbs of muscle in an entire YEAR, let alone gaining anything significant in a calorie deficit, where energy is already low. Your body is more likely to want to retain what it has than create new muscle. So, the purpose of weightlifting in a deficit is to retain current muscle while you lose the weight. You can gain a significant amount of strength in a deficit, though without building new muscle mass.0 -
I, personally, like weight routines that involve compound lifts, like Stronglifts 5X5. 3 lifts, 5 sets of 5. You start with what is heavy for you, and the goal is to add 5lbs per workout. Something like this is 3 times a week, and takes 45-60 minutes, depending on the weight you're working with. Lifting routines such as this have been beneficial to me for cutting body fat.0
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That sounds like a huge time commitment for someone who is just looking to lose the last 5 and maintain muscle. I too would feel overwhelmed and stressed out by that schedule.
If you are not liking it, you won't stick with it. Personally, I have enjoyed New Rules, which is 3x/week and doesn't require over 45 minutes in my experience. Then of course you can sprinkle in some cardio if you want, because it sounds like you do enjoy it for reasons other than HAVING to.
And as far as losing the last bit of weight. You know what to do. You've come this far. Now it's just a matter of patience
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renedipeach wrote: »A friend of mine is a registered personal trainer, but also a body builder. She has given me dieting tips and a few workout routines, but I'm not sure the routines she's given me really cater to my goals.
I have been losing weight for 8+ months and am down to the last 5lbs until my goal. She gave me a very strict six day plan that includes weight lifting daily to target one muscle groups per day. I am doing 4 sets per exercise and adding 5lbs each set (ex: sets of 20, 15, 15, 12 and increasing weight each time the set number decreases.)
It seems a bit contradictory to what I see out there for general weightloss. From what I've researched doing heavier weights for less reps burns far more, and doing full body three days a week is beneficial. She also set out specific cardio for each day (high intensity runs, stairs) but having set cardio I must do almost stresses me out as opposed to being a stress reliever.
I would just like a second opinion on the best way to weight lift if you are trying to burn fat, but also tone up (but not like a body builder.)
Thanks!
Your friend has a very outdated view of training. One muscle group per day means you only work each.. once a week. Usually.
for a beginner, a 3x a week full body routine usually works much better, or if you are adventurous then you can try a split such as upper/lower or push/pull. But as a beginner, stick to the basic core lifts 3x a week (deadlift, squat, bench press, shoulder press, and include something for the upper back as well such as pull ups or bent-over rows. If any of these pose form problems, lower the weight or switch to an alternative). But 3x a week is great for helping you learn the moves and help your CNS and muscle become accustomed to how it should be moving, to learn proper form, and to get newbie gains benefits.
Also, there is no reason for you to be doing hypertrophy as a beginner while in a caloric deficit. Your deficit is hopefully pretty small at the moment, but in general it's much easier to do strength training (3-5 rep range) and more beneficial because you are not able to build muscle in a deficit anyways. Strength works on.. strength, CNS. You are also describing pyramid training. You might want to try reverse pyramid training if tiredness becomes an issue, although switching to strength or lowering your rep range (e.g. 3-4, 6-8, 10-12) would also help.
It's not about what burns more, because weight lifting is not done to lose weight. It's done to help preserve and/or build muscle mass and change body composition, depending on your caloric intake.
There's also no need for cardio. I only do a cardio warm up for 5 mins before lifting. THat's it.
You can't "tone up," you can build muscle or lose body fat to reveal muscle that is already there. you have to pick one. If you are 5lbs from goal and don't see any type of muscle yet, then I'd say lift heavy until you reach your goal and then decide if your body fat is low enough to start bulking or if you'd like to take a break and hten get back to dieting down with a proper high-protein, small deficit diet with heavy reps.0 -
renedipeach wrote: »BombshellPhoenix wrote: »Don't worry, you won't get a bodybuilder physique without years of bulking and cutting combined with adequate training and protein. It is an intentional process and doesn't happen by accident.
To lose fat, calorie deficit is the most important factor. Macro balance will aid in body composition. I, personally, prefer a 3 day full body split like All Pro just for convenience. Weightlifting will aid in muscle retention which will help you look leaner at goal. As far as cardio, that's up to you. I lost 53 lbs in 9 months just lifting 3 days a week and minor cardio (dancing games for 30 minutes a few days a week).
If you are not enjoying the training you're doing. Do something else! Definitely no reason to be miserable. After all, if you intend to maintain when you're finished I'd find a program you enjoy!
Thanks for the input, and congrats on your 53lbs off! I know it takes a crazy diet and months to gain a body building physique, I just wasn't sure if the workout she gave me is catered towards building muscle over weight loss.
I've become more stressed because of the length this workout takes me each day (up to 2 hours, going in the morning and afternoon/night) and feeling guilty if I can't fit it into my schedule. I'm thinking cutting back a bit and doing the cardio I'm in the mood for will still get me there as long as I am dieting properly. Fingers crossed!
If this is the schedule and time commitment that your friend has prescribed, then she's a terrible PT, sorry. I do 3 lifts 4x a day, similar to Wendler 531 based on a hybrid of periodization and big but boring. 3 sets of 4-5 reps, 3 warm up sets for each muscle group. So e.g. I will do squats once a week and also do leg presses and back extensions. Then the next day I'll do shoulder press and incline bench press and pull downs. Then a rest day (today!), then deadlifts with lunges and something else for lower back/hamstrings (usually doing extensions 2x a week actually), and then the last day will be bench press with upright rows and bent-over rows. Each day takes no more than ~45 mins, which includes my warm up sets. This doesn't include general warm-up, stretching, and time spent between exercises. But it does include my rests between reps (usually 2.5 minutes). So overall, probably less than 5 hours a week compared to your 12 hours!
IMO your schedule is just setting you up for over-training. Trust me, over-training SUCKS.0 -
Nothing wrong with working one muscle group a day. It helps by giving them longer recovery times and has the potential to allow you to train those groups harder then if you were to throw them in on top of another group.
I personally like this method as I can reduce gym time and fit in cardio as well without being there all day.0 -
DojoMaster888 wrote: »Nothing wrong with working one muscle group a day. It helps by giving them longer recovery times and has the potential to allow you to train those groups harder then if you were to throw them in on top of another group.
Correct.. that's why it's suitable for advanced or intermediate lifters. For newbies, it can create debilitating soreness and possibly cause overtraining injuries. To maintain lean body mass during fat loss, it only takes 2-3 heavy sets per muscle group, 2-3 times per week.
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Each day takes no more than ~45 mins, which includes my warm up sets. This doesn't include general warm-up, stretching, and time spent between exercises. But it does include my rests between reps (usually 2.5 minutes). So overall, probably less than 5 hours a week compared to your 12 hours!
IMO your schedule is just setting you up for over-training. Trust me, over-training SUCKS.
I should specify the up to two hours includes the cardio recommendations as well. The weight lifting takes about an hour, and I was told to not lift longer than an hour and fifteen minutes even if I am not finished. I have two days of legs, two of shoulders/back, one day chest/abs, and one day triceps/biceps.
I just want to make sure I am going about weight loss/muscle maintenance in the best and most efficient way I can. Convenience wise, I would prefer a three day full body routine and cardio four to five times a week. This six day constant of both is a bit much.0 -
renedipeach wrote: »Each day takes no more than ~45 mins, which includes my warm up sets. This doesn't include general warm-up, stretching, and time spent between exercises. But it does include my rests between reps (usually 2.5 minutes). So overall, probably less than 5 hours a week compared to your 12 hours!
IMO your schedule is just setting you up for over-training. Trust me, over-training SUCKS.
I should specify the up to two hours includes the cardio recommendations as well. The weight lifting takes about an hour, and I was told to not lift longer than an hour and fifteen minutes even if I am not finished. I have two days of legs, two of shoulders/back, one day chest/abs, and one day triceps/biceps.
I just want to make sure I am going about weight loss/muscle maintenance in the best and most efficient way I can. Convenience wise, I would prefer a three day full body routine and cardio four to five times a week. This six day constant of both is a bit much.
Why would you work some areas more often than others? Honestly, your routine just does not sound good. Which is a jab at your friend. You can lift more than an hour if you want. I have had combo days where I've lifted for a good 80 minutes almost.
Also, triceps get worked when you do chest, biceps can be worked while doing upper back work, and you might be working back more than you think.. basically it's just not a well planned out routine IMO.
Why are you doing an hour of cardio? Even when I was trying to do cardio, it was only 20 minutes post-weights. Maybe 30 minutes max. And then I stopped doing it and I still lost weight because exercise is for fitness, not weight loss. 4-5x a week for cardio is still pretty excessive to me. I'd rather just do it on rest days myself, again for like 20-30 minutes at low-moderate intensity.
Best maintenance for muscle is heavy lifting with reduced volume if you arein a caloric deficit, but don't reduce intensity. And then eating lots of protein (0.8g/lb or 1g/lean body mass) and having a small deficit (no more than 20% from maintenance needs, for you 10% is more than enough).0 -
Why are you doing an hour of cardio? Even when I was trying to do cardio, it was only 20 minutes post-weights. Maybe 30 minutes max. And then I stopped doing it and I still lost weight because exercise is for fitness, not weight loss. 4-5x a week for cardio is still pretty excessive to me. I'd rather just do it on rest days myself, again for like 20-30 minutes at low-moderate intensity.
Best maintenance for muscle is heavy lifting with reduced volume if you arein a caloric deficit, but don't reduce intensity. And then eating lots of protein (0.8g/lb or 1g/lean body mass) and having a small deficit (no more than 20% from maintenance needs, for you 10% is more than enough).
I personally enjoy going on runs and pushing myself for faster time or longer distance. I also believe in adding at least one or two high intensity cardio sessions (20-30 min.) a week for weight loss. While I understand diet is the biggest factor, I think cardio is very beneficial. I personally hate using cardio machines and her routine has the stairmaster for two days a week. I'd rather go outside and run or just rest after lifting if I'm not up to it. I also don't minus calories burned from my intake (1450 cal.)
Currently I am eating that amount of protein (C-40%, F-20%, P-40%). Like I said prior, I have been doing this for eight months just down to the wire. I felt as though I needed an extra step to get over the final hump, and that this routine she made was not right for my personal preference. I plan to modify, thanks for your help!
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renedipeach wrote: »Why are you doing an hour of cardio? Even when I was trying to do cardio, it was only 20 minutes post-weights. Maybe 30 minutes max. And then I stopped doing it and I still lost weight because exercise is for fitness, not weight loss. 4-5x a week for cardio is still pretty excessive to me. I'd rather just do it on rest days myself, again for like 20-30 minutes at low-moderate intensity.
Best maintenance for muscle is heavy lifting with reduced volume if you arein a caloric deficit, but don't reduce intensity. And then eating lots of protein (0.8g/lb or 1g/lean body mass) and having a small deficit (no more than 20% from maintenance needs, for you 10% is more than enough).
I personally enjoy going on runs and pushing myself for faster time or longer distance. I also believe in adding at least one or two high intensity cardio sessions (20-30 min.) a week for weight loss. While I understand diet is the biggest factor, I think cardio is very beneficial. I personally hate using cardio machines and her routine has the stairmaster for two days a week. I'd rather go outside and run or just rest after lifting if I'm not up to it. I also don't minus calories burned from my intake (1450 cal.)
Currently I am eating that amount of protein (C-40%, F-20%, P-40%). Like I said prior, I have been doing this for eight months just down to the wire. I felt as though I needed an extra step to get over the final hump, and that this routine she made was not right for my personal preference. I plan to modify, thanks for your help!
You can do as much cardio as you like, so if fyou enjoy the cardio keep it up. Although do know that a lot of people wind up having to choose between lots of cardio and lots of weights, since many find that excessive cardio impedes strength/muscular goals!
Cardio is just beneficial for overall health though. IF you eat back exercise cals or you include it into your TDEE calculation then you are not actually increasing your deficit by adding in cardio.
Is 1450 your NET income? It'd better be with the amount of exercise you are outlining. And hopefully it's your 1lb/week goal, because otherwise you should probably recalculate your energy needs. I have links on my profile, I rec the first two most frequently!
Definitely rework the routine to work for your goals and preferences. Deadlifts, squats/lunges, bench press, shoulder press, and upper back (you can include another lower back/hamstring exercise if you'd like depending on how deadlifts work your posterior chain) 2-3x a week should be just fine as a beginner. Will give you more time to do cardio too
And be sure you warm up properly. I personally do 3 warm up sets: 1st at 50% for 5 reps, then 2nd at 75% for 3 reps, last at 95% for 1 rep, then my standard rest period. You may not need as many warm ups if you stick to the higher rep range. I also do dynamic stretches beforehand for a few minutes, and the cardio warm up at the start. The % are based on the working weight I"m using... so If you are doing pyramid, you might want to try it based on the first working set weight you use, and if that doesn't work then switch to the last working set weight you use. 0 -
Quote - I know it takes a crazy diet and months to gain a body building physique, I just wasn't sure if the workout she gave me is catered towards building muscle over weight loss.
Not months.....it takes YEARS!0
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