Muscle gain plan, help please :)
JosieRawr
Posts: 788 Member
So I said that I wasn't going to track this winter, but the fear of under eating due to fear of overeating convinced me... lol. Aiming to get over 3000 each day that I work for now(burn 35-3800), with one or two days a week being over, but weekly balance being very close to maintenance. Protein around 100-150, with plenty of fats and as many carbs as sound tasty... Trying to eat plenty of fiber and having vegetables at most meals with mostly whole meats. More wholefoods + more calories has equaled quite a bit of discretionary calories that I am taking full advantage of lol.
I'd like to reach a very lean bulk, ultimately eating slightly over maintenance daily, but almost fasting on my days off(a bit of protein, fat, and minimal carbs) which would be an overall deficit, but give my body a chance to repair/build muscle on my working days. It would come out almost like a 5/2 except varying based on my days off(which don't exist this week)
My main focuses to help this would be plenty of sleep, I generally sleep 9 hours at least 1 time a week when working long loading hours, and plenty of hydration throughout the whole day.
I'm really not lean enough to ideally do a bulk cycle, but I need to increase strength during my work's peak season so I cannot see eating at a heavy deficit. I will be cutting after the season drops, but I'd rather not gain much or any if possible.
TLDR?
Can I build muscle/strength while eating at a very minimal surplus on work days, followed by a deficit on my days off which would be a negative weekly balance?
I'd like to reach a very lean bulk, ultimately eating slightly over maintenance daily, but almost fasting on my days off(a bit of protein, fat, and minimal carbs) which would be an overall deficit, but give my body a chance to repair/build muscle on my working days. It would come out almost like a 5/2 except varying based on my days off(which don't exist this week)
My main focuses to help this would be plenty of sleep, I generally sleep 9 hours at least 1 time a week when working long loading hours, and plenty of hydration throughout the whole day.
I'm really not lean enough to ideally do a bulk cycle, but I need to increase strength during my work's peak season so I cannot see eating at a heavy deficit. I will be cutting after the season drops, but I'd rather not gain much or any if possible.
TLDR?
Can I build muscle/strength while eating at a very minimal surplus on work days, followed by a deficit on my days off which would be a negative weekly balance?
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Replies
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If it helps-
I'm 27y/o
F
170
estimated around 35% bf(tape measure and pic comparison)
And I use my body media fit to record burn which I've used to lose weight precisely before(when I was also precisely measuring intake of course)0 -
I have been working such a program with limited success and integrated it into a calorie and macro cycling routine of intermittent fasting.
Over 3 years, I dropped a pant size and reduced body fat about 5%.
For me it's been a slow process. I engaged Body Re-composition after reaching my weight loss goals.
Good luck in your efforts
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I'd be careful about keeping up a deficit in calories on the days you don't lift/strength-train. Your muscles use the off-days to repair and re-build, and THAT'S when you need the excess calories to provide the energy they need to strengthen. I just started a weight-training regimen, and my trainer said that I should eat an excess of about 400 calories per day (which scares the crap out of me, honestly) in order to provide energy for the muscles to repair/grow.
He said that yes, I would also probably see increases in my fat level, but he pointed out that since I've lost 75 pounds, I know how to lose fat, and when I pick up more cardio in the spring/summer (mountain biking, general increase in activity), the fat will come off, and the increase in muscle mass will help burn off the excess calories as well.
He estimated I'd probably gain about 10 pounds over the winter (again, scaring the heck out of me), and said that some of those pounds would be muscle, and some would be fat, but to NOT WORRY--increasing muscle mass is my target, and it will all balance out.
TLDR: If you want to grow muscles, eat somewhat excess calories daily in order for muscles to get the energy they need to repair/grow. Don't worry about increased fat, it will take care of itself as you develop stronger muscles. And, as he said: "Want muscle? Eat more, don't freak out!"0 -
You can get stronger while in deficit. Yes.
Getting bigger/more muscle. No.
Add in carbs. I see u listed high fiber stuff. But get in carbs. Like rice, potatoes, etc...0 -
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What is your motivation behind having such a variable day to day calorie target?
The reason I ask, and this is subject to some debate, is that the benefits of calorie cycling is debatable and I would only suggest someone does it if it helps their workouts and/or other energy requirements. (i.e. the additional calories on the high days helps the workouts). It also seems as though you are looking to virtually fast on rest days. Fasting for a day is not an issue in itself, but 5:2 is really used to allow for a deficit to be created due to the fasting days. I would not recommend it when looking to maintain unless it helps adherence, which, I am not sure is applicable here. If you are wanting to calorie cycle, I would not recommend doing it so extremely.
Do you have experience in needing to eat at/above maintenance on work days?
I suppose where I am going is questioning whether you need such a high deficit on rest days.
Also, are these rest days back to back?
ETA: one more question: will you be working out or is work your 'workout'? It appears from your post that your work is more strenuous/demanding during the winter season.0 -
"What is your motivation behind having such a variable day to day calorie target?"
For one- my work days = 3500-3800 tdee. Off days = ~2000. My main focus is to do my job well as I enjoy it, but I'm also 35% or so body fat so a bit concerned with gaining.
"Do you have experience in needing to eat at/above maintenance on work days?"
I did eat at about maintenance last winter, but I didn't track, that's only judging by the fact that I was 170 average throughout the season. After my body adjusts to my rougher routine I get hungrier, but I don't necessarily need to eat, I just let myself since I wasn't gaining weight.
"Also, are these rest days back to back?"
Rest days might be a stretch... This week I'm working Monday through the following Saturday without a day off(13 days). Then I expect to have Sunday off, then back Monday-Friday or Saturday.
"will you be working out or is work your 'workout'? It appears from your post that your work is more strenuous/demanding during the winter season. "
During the winter I pretty much work and rest with a bit of time for the family between
I'm considered "part time flex" but really I'm mostly a seasonal employee that gets raises and then I only work a few days a week or month the rest of the year(at this job). It is very demanding, involves lots of stacking, moving heavy things(not nearly as heavy by the end of the season though
) manually and/or with a pallet jack for 40-90 hours a week. I plan to get into "Your body is a Gym" type workouts after the season drops this year to try to at least maintain some of the strength that I gain.
I'm not at all set on the extreme deficit on my days off whenever they are, I'm more concerned with gaining my strength, I'm just not really sure how I should do it that will allow for an easier transition when the season ends.0 -
You can get stronger while in deficit. Yes.
Getting bigger/more muscle. No.
Add in carbs. I see u listed high fiber stuff. But get in carbs. Like rice, potatoes, etc...
In your opinion if I increased strength, stayed the same weigh, but got leaner, would I have been eating at maintenance and gaining a tad of muscle? This being from Sept-Dec0 -
You can get stronger while in deficit. Yes.
Getting bigger/more muscle. No.
Add in carbs. I see u listed high fiber stuff. But get in carbs. Like rice, potatoes, etc...
In your opinion if I increased strength, stayed the same weigh, but got leaner, would I have been eating at maintenance and gaining a tad of muscle? This being from Sept-Dec
You won't get leaner if you stay the same weight.
What you're proposing is like trying to run forwards and backwards at the same time. You need to figure out if muscle gain or fat loss is most important right now and stick with that.0 -
Chief_Rocka wrote: »You can get stronger while in deficit. Yes.
Getting bigger/more muscle. No.
Add in carbs. I see u listed high fiber stuff. But get in carbs. Like rice, potatoes, etc...
In your opinion if I increased strength, stayed the same weigh, but got leaner, would I have been eating at maintenance and gaining a tad of muscle? This being from Sept-Dec
You won't get leaner if you stay the same weight.
What you're proposing is like trying to run forwards and backwards at the same time. You need to figure out if muscle gain or fat loss is most important right now and stick with that.
I did not ask as if I were trying to achieve this. I was asking for an opinion on what DID happen. I'm not saying my daily weight was always 170, heck I normally fluctuate 3-7 pounds daily- no biggy, but I was on average 170 at the beginning and the end of the season, and my measurements went down, muscles more defined, that's what I refer to as "leaner" perhaps that's not your definition?
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You can get stronger while in deficit. Yes.
Getting bigger/more muscle. No.
Add in carbs. I see u listed high fiber stuff. But get in carbs. Like rice, potatoes, etc...
In your opinion if I increased strength, stayed the same weigh, but got leaner, would I have been eating at maintenance and gaining a tad of muscle? This being from Sept-Dec
Quite possible yes, and may have added some muscle....assuming you had measurements before and after said time frame.
They may have made use of the fat stores you had tapping into while in deficit.....
So yeah, you may have been at maintenance.
After 4 months, I would look at my numbers again, you may need to bump up your calories.
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You can get stronger while in deficit. Yes.
Getting bigger/more muscle. No.
Add in carbs. I see u listed high fiber stuff. But get in carbs. Like rice, potatoes, etc...
In your opinion if I increased strength, stayed the same weigh, but got leaner, would I have been eating at maintenance and gaining a tad of muscle? This being from Sept-Dec
Quite possible yes, and may have added some muscle....assuming you had measurements before and after said time frame.
They may have made use of the fat stores you had tapping into while in deficit.....
So yeah, you may have been at maintenance.
After 4 months, I would look at my numbers again, you may need to bump up your calories.
Unfortunately after 4 months my work changes and I have to drop my calories significantly lol. Thanks for your reply though
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No one has seasonal job yoyo?0
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No.
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