Weight difference between machine and free weights

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ForecasterJason
ForecasterJason Posts: 2,577 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
I use an Impex weight machine. I believe each of the plates that are on the system are 10 pounds each, although there is an additional plate (not sure how much weight) on top of the other ones. I'm wondering if there is any way to know what (if any) difference there is between doing some exercises (such as the bench press) with this versus a barbell. For instance, if I were to bench press 40 pounds (4 plates, not including the additional one on top), is that about the equivalent to the 45 pound bar? Or would the pulley system involved with the machine equate to considerably more weight?
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Replies

  • Shawshankcan
    Shawshankcan Posts: 900 Member
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    The pulley system and fact that a machine stays in a fixed path means you can't compare the weights directly.
  • womentips
    womentips Posts: 1 Member
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    free weights are the best one.
  • ForecasterJason
    ForecasterJason Posts: 2,577 Member
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    I found a chart that shows the weight resistance for the various weight plate amounts. What I'm wondering is if there is any way to interrupt this, meaning, how does this correlate to what I'm actually lifting? Meaning, assuming I have the right chart for the machine I'm using, the amount of weight resistance I can lift now is 139 pounds for the bench press (they call it front press). However, it would seem to me as though that's not the actual weight I can lift, as I thought it should be much lower.
  • 3laine75
    3laine75 Posts: 3,070 Member
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    When I first went from machine to free weights, it was less than half I could manage. It was a balance thing, you move up the weights pretty quick once you get used to it though.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,874 Member
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    ForecasterJason wrote: »
    I found a chart that shows the weight resistance for the various weight plate amounts. What I'm wondering is if there is any way to interrupt this, meaning, how does this correlate to what I'm actually lifting? Meaning, assuming I have the right chart for the machine I'm using, the amount of weight resistance I can lift now is 139 pounds for the bench press (they call it front press). However, it would seem to me as though that's not the actual weight I can lift, as I thought it should be much lower.

    You're not going to be able to make any direct comparison here without actually going in and doing some bench press. In my experience, you will be able to lift more with a machine and less....often significantly less with free weights.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,555 Member
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    Doing a 100lb bench press on a machine vs 100lb bench press with a barbell and free weights don't compare. Most people who can bench press 100lbs on a machine MAY be able to do 80lbs with free weights. And it drops even more when doing it with dumbells.
    Stabilizers and ROM make the difference here.

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  • goddessofawesome
    goddessofawesome Posts: 563 Member
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    Depending on how the pulley system is configured it is taking off a significant amount of the weight from what you're lifting so it enables you to lift MORE than you could with free weights.
  • uconnwinsnc1
    uconnwinsnc1 Posts: 902 Member
    edited December 2014
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    The only way to find out is to test it. Different machines have different leverages. I'd estimate machines are around 20% easier on the lower weights but actually might be even easier on heavier weights when stabilizers would be taxed more otherwise...but honest I have no idea.
  • alan_huynh2000
    alan_huynh2000 Posts: 43 Member
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    There is not a good way to compare. Biggest difference is the all the muscles you use to stabilize yourself on free weights. A machine lets your rest, and puts you into a position to target certain muscles. Free weights force you to stand up, and stabilize your whole body while other muscles bounce around. Its a whole different experience.
  • ForecasterJason
    ForecasterJason Posts: 2,577 Member
    edited December 2014
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    Ok, all that makes sense.

    I think I might have figured out the answer to my question. I don't have easy access to a barbell, but I do have a pair of 20 lb dumbbells that I just used to see how many reps I could bench with that. At 40 lbs total, I got in 35 reps, and I could have probably done 2-3 more. After reading up on what the general ratio of dumbbell to barbell bench ratio, it seems like it's anywhere from 75-90%. That means if I used a barbell I would have used anywhere from 44-53 lbs for the same number of reps.

    Supposedly, I can bench 139 pounds on the machine for 10 reps. The estimated one rep max of my dumbbell test is 87 lbs. Based on that, if I had heavier dumbbells I could have done 65 lbs total (or 32.5 each) for 10 reps. And based on a possible 85% dumbbell to bench ratio, that means I could have used 77lbs on the barbell for 10 reps, which is about 55% of what I can do on the machine.
  • alan_huynh2000
    alan_huynh2000 Posts: 43 Member
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    I"ve been lifting for over 10 years. The amount I can bench vs dumbbells vs a machine never really match up mathematically.

  • beautifulwarrior18
    beautifulwarrior18 Posts: 914 Member
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    It's actually not a balance thing. The reason you can lift more on a machine is because the machine is actually assisting you more than you think. So that 70 lbs you're doing on a lat pull down isn't actually 70 lbs. That's one of the many major criticism of machines. You're always better off doing free weights.
  • alan_huynh2000
    alan_huynh2000 Posts: 43 Member
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    Now, all this isn't to say machines don't have their place. They are better than nothing, they can be great for someone with an injury, when you need to focus on a specific muscle, to add variety, to push yourself to a "max" if you don't have a spotter.
  • peachyfuzzle
    peachyfuzzle Posts: 1,122 Member
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    beautifulwarrior18 wrote: »
    It's actually not a balance thing. The reason you can lift more on a machine is because the machine is actually assisting you more than you think. So that 70 lbs you're doing on a lat pull down isn't actually 70 lbs. That's one of the many major criticism of machines. You're always better off doing free weights.

    Balance, and stabilizing muscles are definitely a factor...
  • PikaKnight
    PikaKnight Posts: 34,971 Member
    edited December 2014
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    peachyfuzzle wrote: »
    beautifulwarrior18 wrote: »
    It's actually not a balance thing. The reason you can lift more on a machine is because the machine is actually assisting you more than you think. So that 70 lbs you're doing on a lat pull down isn't actually 70 lbs. That's one of the many major criticism of machines. You're always better off doing free weights.

    Balance, and stabilizing muscles are definitely a factor...

    ^Agreed. Although the concern about machines assisting the weight you pull is valid, the balance and stabilizing issues are definitely a "thing".
  • peachyfuzzle
    peachyfuzzle Posts: 1,122 Member
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    PikaKnight wrote: »
    peachyfuzzle wrote: »
    beautifulwarrior18 wrote: »
    It's actually not a balance thing. The reason you can lift more on a machine is because the machine is actually assisting you more than you think. So that 70 lbs you're doing on a lat pull down isn't actually 70 lbs. That's one of the many major criticism of machines. You're always better off doing free weights.

    Balance, and stabilizing muscles are definitely a factor...

    ^Agreed. Although the concern about machines assisting the weight you pull is valid, the balance and stabilizing issues are definitely a "thing".

    Oh, the weight assistance is definitely part of it also.
  • tigersword
    tigersword Posts: 8,059 Member
    edited December 2014
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    alan_huynh2000 wrote: »
    I"ve been lifting for over 10 years. The amount I can bench vs dumbbells vs a machine never really match up mathematically.
    This. There isn't really a correlation. Way too many variables.
  • CarlKRobbo
    CarlKRobbo Posts: 390 Member
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    x2 for Free weights over Machines. Stabilizers are definitely the main difference in this, They even come into effect on Dumbells vs Barbells, Plate loaded machines vs Compounds etc... All improve\Balance out in time..
  • peachyfuzzle
    peachyfuzzle Posts: 1,122 Member
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    CarlKRobbo wrote: »
    x2 for Free weights over Machines. Stabilizers are definitely the main difference in this, They even come into effect on Dumbells vs Barbells, Plate loaded machines vs Compounds etc... All improve\Balance out in time..

    I started out on a Smith machine for a few weeks before joining a gym that had real freeweights. I thought I was pretty badass squatting almost two plates on the Smith machine before trying to lift only 75% of that weight on a free bar, and having to bail out of it the second I went down because I nearly fell on my *kitten* from being so off balance.

    I'm still having issues not wobbling my bench press all over the place.
  • Morgaath
    Morgaath Posts: 679 Member
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    beautifulwarrior18 wrote: »
    So that 70 lbs you're doing on a lat pull down isn't actually 70 lbs. That's one of the many major criticism of machines. You're always better off doing free weights.

    Here is the thing: That 70lbs you are lifting on the machine is 70lbs.
    Just as when I pull an engine out of a car, it is going to weigh the same if I use a pully, a hoist, or me and a couple of friends lift it out with our bare hands. Now, the amount of energy I have to use to lift that weight is going to vary depending on the method, but the weight getting lifted stays the same.

    This is why you find that some machines don't tell you the weight you're lifting, choosing instead to tell you how many plates you are using... but the average guy in the gym wants a number he can relate to so the majority give him lbs/kg, even though they don't really relate to what you can lift any other way.

    Just think of the numbers on a weight machine as the difficulty setting, keep pushing up the difficulty, and as long as you are feeling it at the end of the workout, then you are doing good.

    I guess another way to look at is Free Weights are one video game, while Machines is a different video game. Do you try and compare your Machines score with your Free Weights score?

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