Maintainance: can everone do it ? and how ?
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RunRutheeRun wrote: »One of my MFP friends had an interesting observation today -- the difference between maintaining and gaining 10 pounds over a year is about 90 calories a day. To me, that means you gotta be keep an eye on the scale (or other measurements, if you prefer) -- I don't care how diligent you are about weighing and measuring, your margin of error is bigger than that.
^^ interesting point...and good to know
I chipped away at my deficit very slowly toward the end of my cut so that I was eating (or trying to, at least--it's hard to be that precise) about -100 or -150 calories/day to lose a pound a month. When I switched from that to what I thought my maintenance would be, I realized how slim the margin is between losing and maintaining, and therefore between maintaining and gaining. I shouldn't have been surprised, as I ended up on MFP in the first place after gaining a pound a month for a year and a half when I was out of my usual routine for a number of reasons. That's a handful of almonds a day, or 1/4 cup of vanilla ice cream (as if I've ever eaten 1/4 cup of ice cream in my life) above and beyond what I burn, and it's well within the margin of error unless you NEVER eat out and NEVER eyeball a portion, which I think would be impossible.0 -
I'm convinced that maintenance will feel exactly the same as eating at a deficit but with more food. So I best get used to it. To answer your question, yes everyone can maintain, but not everyone will do what needs to be done to maintain. I'm personally still uncomfortable with knowing I'll be tracking for the rest of my life (potentially) but that's a mindset issue and a lazy nature that I need to change, the act of what I need to do is exactly the same. Maybe in 15 years I'll be able to venture away from calorie counting.0
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I was thinking about this again and thought of this analogy; you wouldn't randomly put oil in your car withought measuring the exact amount as it would ruin the motor. So why would you randomly put food into your body with no idea of how much calories are in it or what your daily toal should be? This is something that should be instilled into people when they are young, considering the high caloric content of available foods and snacks that we are used to eating. I wen't to Red Robins the other night, and was disapointed to see that most Burgers were over 1000 calories. However, due to logging I was still able to stay within my range.0
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I think it's about forming new habits.
I am better at maintenance than I am with weight loss. I do a few simple things. I changed the size of my bowls and plates to smaller ones for easy portion control, I made vegetables (preferably low starch) the bulk of most meals, I swapped favourite foods for low calorie options - so swap say a drink with lemonade to soda, swap driving to a cafe to have a coffee and muffin to walking to the cafe and not having a muffin. And I really focus on eating when I am hungry and stopping when I am no longer hungry (rather than full). If I really want to eat something I do. If I want chocolate I would go and buy my absolute favourite in a very small quantity rather than a cheap family block. If I eat out I eat lean the day before and after. When socialising I eat whatever I like but I do not overeat.
And I move as much as I can. I don't drive if I can walk or cycle.
And I weigh daily. I know what range I need to stay in. If I move outside that range I make changes.
And I gave away all of my fat clothes. So there is no easy road back.0 -
To maintain weight, you need to change the way you see your weight loss program. It's not a project or a goal but a life style. A weight you expect to maintain 'til you die. Once your mind realizes this it's easier to continue with the weight maintenance. Hitting your desired weight is not or should not be your goal but to maintain that weight. The good side of maintaining weight is that you get to increase your calorie intake, so that helps a bit.0
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fenderman9 wrote: »I was thinking about this again and thought of this analogy; you wouldn't randomly put oil in your car withought measuring the exact amount as it would ruin the motor. So why would you randomly put food into your body with no idea of how much calories are in it or what your daily toal should be?
So what were human beings doing for the majority of our history before the calorie was "discovered"?
On top of that there are still hundreds of millions of people who live in places where the caloric value of foods is only sporadically available, if available at all. What of them?
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I don't get this maintenance is boring thing at all I'm afraid.
I'm fitter, faster, stronger, look better in and out of clothes, full of energy, my back doesn't hurt so much, my knees don't hurt so much, I'm healthier.... Plus I feel I've achieved something that evades many and intend achieving more.
Don't find any of that boring.
I had to watch what I ate when I was fat for 20 years or I would have been enormous. Now I watch what I eat and am a good healthy weight. Seems like a win to me.
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Maintenance plan:
Develop a good relationship with food.
Eat what you enjoy.
Realize that you can indeed have one single square from the whole chocolate bar and enjoy the crap out of it, and then put it away so that you can also enjoy the crap out of it tomorrow.
Realize that it's worth splurging on really quality, delicious foods, but poor quality crap foods just aren't worth it (ie. why eat a Twinkie when you can walk to the bakery and have a freshly made eclair instead? And better yet, split it with your sweetheart so you can both enjoy, but neither of you are demolishing the whole thing.)
Realize that American portions of pretty much everything are ridiculous, and it's worth either making two meals of something, or taking the lesser "value" and getting a more reasonable portion.
Set an upper limit number for your weight which takes into account normal water retention for you. If you get close to that number, start backing off on the quantities. If the number doesn't go back down, then it's time to log again for a while.0 -
No. Logging is not like hygiene. Logging is a great educational tool, but is not necessary for all people, and shouldn't be seen that way automatically.You have to keep measuring and logging. Think about it like brushing your teeth and showering. You don't do that as a hobby then quit, you must do it for the rest of your life.
Hygiene IS necessary.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Here's what a lot of people go wrong...they lose a bunch of weight and they think they are done...in reality, they're just beginning. You don't stop paying attention just because you've reached some arbitrary number on the scale. In reality, you've only arrived at the starting line of the actual race that you were (or should have been) training for. Unfortunately, people go through all this "training" and never actually run the real race...in their minds, they're done...it's over with...back to the good old days and the good old ways. That'll never work in a million years.
If you look at the people who've had success, they've all made significant changes in the way they live their lives...and I'm not talking about logging a diary...I'm talking about making nutrition and eating well and regular exercise and developing other healthy habits that you take into perpetuity. You have to get out of the mindset that you're going to only be doing this for X amount of time and then you'll be done...because really, you're never done.
Yes. They diet to lose weight. They exercise to lose weight. But they don't create healthy habits for a lifetime. Unlike logging, this IS necessary, imho.0 -
Sabine - I think that's true for some people. I think it might even be true for me, although I like logging and haven't missed it once since I started. It's particularly useful for me because I've gotten so good at eating well with good portion control that my log helps me eat enough.
But all the evidence suggests most people don't learn that much during their weight loss. They get back into old habits. They slowly gain weight. So for most of us, it's a useful tool and helps us stay mindful. In that sense, it's a good habit, like brushing your teeth.
If you don't do it, you need to find some other way of getting that same result without that tool. Maybe it's getting on the scale every day. Maybe it's religious exercising. Maybe it's logging in your head instead of online. Maybe it's spot logging every 3 days or one week a month. It doesn't matter.
Most people can't naturally eat in a food saturated environment that discourages exercise without gaining weight. That's why so many of us are overweight.0 -
Iwishyouwell wrote: »fenderman9 wrote: »I was thinking about this again and thought of this analogy; you wouldn't randomly put oil in your car withought measuring the exact amount as it would ruin the motor. So why would you randomly put food into your body with no idea of how much calories are in it or what your daily toal should be?
So what were human beings doing for the majority of our history before the calorie was "discovered"?
On top of that there are still hundreds of millions of people who live in places where the caloric value of foods is only sporadically available, if available at all. What of them?
Early Man could trust his hunger instincts because he didn't have to compete with Corperations, Marketers and Scientists who know exactly what to put into foods to make them addictive and to turn off peoples appestats such as MSG and High Fructose Corn Syrup. Not to mention fat and salt levels of snacks that dont naturally occur in whole foods. We don't have the same fight or flight outlets that prehistoric man had either. We can't just fight or run away, so we eat for many reasons except for hunger such as boredom, stress, depression. I'm talking from experience here, my appestat is shot. I havent felt true hunger in decades.0 -
Sabine - I think that's true for some people. I think it might even be true for me, although I like logging and haven't missed it once since I started. It's particularly useful for me because I've gotten so good at eating well with good portion control that my log helps me eat enough.
But all the evidence suggests most people don't learn that much during their weight loss. They get back into old habits. They slowly gain weight. So for most of us, it's a useful tool and helps us stay mindful. In that sense, it's a good habit, like brushing your teeth.
If you don't do it, you need to find some other way of getting that same result without that tool. Maybe it's getting on the scale every day. Maybe it's religious exercising. Maybe it's logging in your head instead of online. Maybe it's spot logging every 3 days or one week a month. It doesn't matter.
Most people can't naturally eat in a food saturated environment that discourages exercise without gaining weight. That's why so many of us are overweight.
Yup. The logging needs to be educational. It really does.0 -
fenderman9 wrote: »Iwishyouwell wrote: »fenderman9 wrote: »I was thinking about this again and thought of this analogy; you wouldn't randomly put oil in your car withought measuring the exact amount as it would ruin the motor. So why would you randomly put food into your body with no idea of how much calories are in it or what your daily toal should be?
So what were human beings doing for the majority of our history before the calorie was "discovered"?
On top of that there are still hundreds of millions of people who live in places where the caloric value of foods is only sporadically available, if available at all. What of them?
Early Man could trust his hunger instincts because he didn't have to compete with Corperations, Marketers and Scientists who know exactly what to put into foods to make them addictive and to turn off peoples appestats such as MSG and High Fructose Corn Syrup. Not to mention fat and salt levels of snacks that dont naturally occur in whole foods. We don't have the same fight or flight outlets that prehistoric man had either. We can't just fight or run away, so we eat for many reasons except for hunger such as boredom, stress, depression. I'm talking from experience here, my appestat is shot. I havent felt true hunger in decades.
General availability of food is another factor. Our ancestors had to hunt and gather food and would often go through periods of feast and famine. The problem is that food is no longer scarce and hard to come by and we haven't kicked our feast on calorie dense foods when they're available because the famine is coming instinct. The problem is for most of us the famine never comes.
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fenderman9 wrote: »Iwishyouwell wrote: »fenderman9 wrote: »I was thinking about this again and thought of this analogy; you wouldn't randomly put oil in your car withought measuring the exact amount as it would ruin the motor. So why would you randomly put food into your body with no idea of how much calories are in it or what your daily toal should be?
So what were human beings doing for the majority of our history before the calorie was "discovered"?
On top of that there are still hundreds of millions of people who live in places where the caloric value of foods is only sporadically available, if available at all. What of them?
Early Man could trust his hunger instincts because he didn't have to compete with Corperations, Marketers and Scientists who know exactly what to put into foods to make them addictive and to turn off peoples appestats such as MSG and High Fructose Corn Syrup. Not to mention fat and salt levels of snacks that dont naturally occur in whole foods. We don't have the same fight or flight outlets that prehistoric man had either. We can't just fight or run away, so we eat for many reasons except for hunger such as boredom, stress, depression. I'm talking from experience here, my appestat is shot. I havent felt true hunger in decades.
Well lets be real here, it wasn't just "early man". The idea that you "need" to count calories, hell the discovery of a "calorie" in the first place, is a very modern notion that doesn't even exist worldwide in modernity.
But that's the point, isn't it? You're far more likely to "need" calorie counting in certain food cultures. I too would require calorie counting if my diet was made up primarily of modern western norms.
How do you break free from calorie counting? Most need to alter their diets radically to consume diets made up largely of those naturally occurring whole foods you mention, which make it generally easier to reach satiation without busting your caloric limits. Or they could also replicate the famine/feast cycle mentioned by Gmallan by intermittent fasting.
People do. I do.0 -
I just reach maintainance and I still log my food.It has became a habit so doesn't feel like chore .I would rather know if I have still have calories left for that cookie or ice cream.
Then again, its a personal choice and this what works for me to keep me accountable0 -
I've found that it has helped me to weigh daily (I know that isn't for everybody) and to log in here and record the weight. It helps to remind me that this is an ongoing project, rather than one I've finished!
I don't always calorie count. I try to control my weight by usually eating only at mealtimes (three times a day) and being careful about portion sizes. That has worked pretty well for a couple of years. Because I weigh daily, I've noticed an upwards trend just recently, so it's back to calorie counting for a while!
I think it can be done, but you're right that it's unusual - so many people lose weight then regain. I think you have to be aware that "dieting" (if you call it that) is permanent, and always be vigilant (unfortunately).0 -
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Metrics!
The fit of pants, weight within a 5 or 10 lb range, then if any of those things goes awry, adjust intake accordingly.
-Haven't gotten to maintenance yet, take what I say as a suggestion with salt.0 -
Once I got past the initial learning curve, I've never found logging to be much trouble. The only time I don't want to log now is when I want to eat something and not acknowledge that I'm eating it. Like pizza. I really shouldn't eat any more than one or two slices of pizza, but it's pizza, and there's no way four or five slices are going to fit into my daily allowance. When I'm around pizza I wish I'd never heard of logging calories.
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ha ha that's funny I have lost and gained on my fitness pal. loosing again 25lbs so far 20 to 25 to go. Hope I can maintain this time. only I plan to log all the cals just to know where I"m at this time. even if I scarf down a whole pizza. hope I can maintain the course this time.0
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I know where you are coming from - I know that I need a constant challenge to keep me focussed on maintenance. I am just back from a long holiday so have to shift some weight to get back to my maintenance range. Normally I stay focused but I have lapses and try to keep them to a minimum. The little voice inside my head that encourages to eat more than I need never really goes away. You need to find out what really works for you.0
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211AndCounting wrote: »
Also, I think "maintenance" is associated with "monotony" but I've maintained my weight for years but have drastically changed my goals as time goes by. By keeping goals fresh the little things like logging and measuring don't take center focus.
Wow!! You have maintained your weight for years?? Congratulations, that is so inspiring to read. Could you give examples of how you have changed your goals to keep things fresh. I would be so interested to hear how you did that.
Thank you, but I didn't do anything great or different - I just changed things as I went along. Initially, yes, I just wanted to lose weight. When I started working out seriously it made me pay even more attention to my diet because there's nothing worse than eating poorly and then struggling through a treadmill session. That leads to failure.
Once I started progressing cardio-wise I switched to low carb, heavy lifting, and reduced cardio drastically. That's where I'm at now and it works great for me! But, I also know that constantly evaluating my health and lifestyle may mean other changes in the near or distant future.0 -
Some people don't want to continue to weigh/log/measure for the rest of their lives. So I suppose the dicussion is for those people
Also number 4 isn't compulsory for maintenance or even weight loss (a good idea for general health though)
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if you don't want your weight to be the forefront of your focus any more, the five pound rule might work for you.
let's say your ideal weight is 135. this means your maintenance range can be between 130-140 depending on normal fluctuations.
the instant you hit 145 (5lbs above your maintenance range) weight needs to become a priority again.
i imagine this will work for me once i hit my ideal weight, since my interest in things comes and goes much like yours.0 -
if you don't want your weight to be the forefront of your focus any more, the five pound rule might work for you.
let's say your ideal weight is 135. this means your maintenance range can be between 130-140 depending on normal fluctuations.
the instant you hit 145 (5lbs above your maintenance range) weight needs to become a priority again.
i imagine this will work for me once i hit my ideal weight, since my interest in things comes and goes much like yours.
^^ good reply - thats actually a good way to look at it although personally I wouldn't want to let it go as far as 5lbs above my highest fluctuation weight.
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Great reply. Except I'd focus in again at 140. The minute I hit the upper end of my comfy range, I focus on my eating.if you don't want your weight to be the forefront of your focus any more, the five pound rule might work for you.
let's say your ideal weight is 135. this means your maintenance range can be between 130-140 depending on normal fluctuations.
the instant you hit 145 (5lbs above your maintenance range) weight needs to become a priority again.
i imagine this will work for me once i hit my ideal weight, since my interest in things comes and goes much like yours.
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I suppose- but I know enough people who have maintained w/o counting it's more than realistic to train yourself to be able to eat wisely and get a sense of your body happy place where it wants to sit without over thinking it.
Some people don't want to continue to weigh/log/measure for the rest of their lives. So I suppose the dicussion is for those people
Also number 4 isn't compulsory for maintenance or even weight loss (a good idea for general health though)
Secondly- I'd say 4 isn't compulsory for maintenance- but that is why I specifically mentioned for a balanced life style. I don't think you can really have a well rounded balanced life style if you don't have some form of exercise in your life.0 -
Log your food every day. Weigh in every day, track your weight daily, make adjustments if your weight goes above a specified number.
How long would you stay out of debt if you never checked your bank/credit card balance and didn't look at the prices of anything?0 -
I know a lot of people who lost significant amounts of weight 4-5 years back who have managed to maintain within roughly a 10lb range. And that's something that I want to point out to you -- maintenance is a range. You aren't going to get to the end of your weight loss, weigh your magical goal weight of ____ and forever weigh that specific number. Most people fluctuate 5-10lbs around that number through the course of the year depending on the season, their level of activity, the foods available, work schedule etc. So now only are those fluctuations something that you have to get used to, but that you need to plan for as well.
I will say, the friends of mine that have done the most successfully don't look at maintenance as something static. They set new goals in relation to their health that they look to achieve. One of my friends began by losing a whopping 220lbs. He maintained for a few months, but found it was pretty boring, so he decided that he should set a goal to get his body fat lower, so he did cut/bulk cycles for about a year. Next he decided that for how healthy he looked now, it was kind of pathetic that he couldn't run a 5k; so he did. And then a 10k, and I believe he's training for his first half marathon now which is in late spring. And he's already told me that if that goes well, he'd really like to try a triathlon the following year so that he could get comfortable with various forms of cardio.
Basically the moral of what I'm trying to say here is that those who succeed at maintenance recognize that just like weight loss, you need smaller goals. You need to monitor what you're eating, your activity level etc. And you need to do things that work for your lifestyle and are sustainable. It's not a one off fix, it's a lifestyle. If you don't change your lifestyle in drastic ways that will and do carry over long term, that's where you'll slip right out of maintenance.0
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