Stupid Rowing machine question
sheldonklein
Posts: 854 Member
Based on some discussions on this board, I've started using a rower instead of an exercise bike. I'm not working up a sweat, I'm not winded, in general I don't feel like I'm getting a good workout. On a related point, I don't feel like I have real control over the intensity of the workout. The machine has its rhythm and I can't go faster or harder than that rhythm. I'm at maximum resistance. And I'm not in great shape-an equivalent time on other cardio equipment just pushes me much harder and leaves me more in control of my intensity. Is this normal? Am I doing it wrong?
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Replies
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Probably.
Look up youtube videos on proper usage of the ergo.
Because it really does matter.0 -
The rower will give you the best overall body workout of all the cardio machines and you will burn more per hour.
I will assume its the Concept 2 rower as they are pretty standard in gyms.
You say maximimh resistance which is 10.
So what strokes a minute are you doing?
what pace are you doing?
Whats either the wattage or calorie burn per hour from the meter?
How long is it taking you to row a certain distance?
How far are you rowing in distance and duration?
It sounds fishy and would help if you provided the above information. Rowers are some of the fittest athletes around and they would tell you that the concept provides a full body workout that definitely pushes them.
My suspicion is that you are not pushing yourself hard enough during the drive phase.
Until you provide the information above its hard to say.0 -
There is a lot of info on the concept II website on technique. A few things that might help though. This advice is based on a concept 2 rower, different rowers displays/resistance etc may vary.
Resistance – you don’t need to have it on maximum, and a lot of rowers have it much lower. Look it up on concept II website – it’s quite a long topic!
There’s a lot of discussion in concept 2 on pace. I have found I tend to settle to a pace around 30 spm (there are plenty who advocate a lower pace). However, you can row at 30 spm and take it easy, and row at the same pace and be completely exhausted. The key is the legs, and the amount of effort you put into the stroke.
So, row at you normal pace, but look at the 500m pace indicator. Taking it easy it will be high, say 2:30 min per 500m. Now row at the same pace and concentrate on pushing with your legs. You should see the 500m pace come down, and the sweat starting!
I hope this helps.
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This distance per 500m is the indiation of pace and not spm. Its more than likely the OP is not putting enough effort into the strokes and it will not be a deficiency in the Concept2.0
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I agree that you may not be putting as much effort. I will say that it does take me a little longer to break a sweat on the rower than an elliptical and my heart rate is also lower (at least by 20BPM), but man do my muscles feel good afterwards.0
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Agree with robinrows - if you're rowing with the resistance on 10, your arms will get tired v quickly (10 is the equivalent of rowing a big heavy row boat, 4 is like a racing shell). The key to the Concept 2 is technique. See youtube for some videos on how to (and how not to) do it right.0
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sheldonklein wrote: »On a related point, I don't feel like I have real control over the intensity of the workout. The machine has its rhythm and I can't go faster or harder than that rhythm.
What kind of machine are you using?
I can generally get a Concept 2 or WaterRower anywhere between 25spm and 45spm, which give me very different experiences.
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There is a lot of info on the concept II website on technique. A few things that might help though. This advice is based on a concept 2 rower, different rowers displays/resistance etc may vary.
Resistance – you don’t need to have it on maximum, and a lot of rowers have it much lower. Look it up on concept II website – it’s quite a long topic!
There’s a lot of discussion in concept 2 on pace. I have found I tend to settle to a pace around 30 spm (there are plenty who advocate a lower pace). However, you can row at 30 spm and take it easy, and row at the same pace and be completely exhausted. The key is the legs, and the amount of effort you put into the stroke.
So, row at you normal pace, but look at the 500m pace indicator. Taking it easy it will be high, say 2:30 min per 500m. Now row at the same pace and concentrate on pushing with your legs. You should see the 500m pace come down, and the sweat starting!
I hope this helps.
This is all relative, though. I row faster than a 2:30/500m pace, but I've been incorporating rowing into my routine for more than a year. But, there was a time when 2:30 was what I did. And, if I'm rowing 2,000m, I'll probably hit a 2:30 pace somewhere in there.
You can't really arbitrarily throw out a time pace and say that it's "taking it easy" because it may not be depending on the experience and fitness of the rower.0 -
Agree with robinrows - if you're rowing with the resistance on 10, your arms will get tired v quickly (10 is the equivalent of rowing a big heavy row boat, 4 is like a racing shell). The key to the Concept 2 is technique. See youtube for some videos on how to (and how not to) do it right.
But he's saying he is rowing on 10 and not getting fatigued at all.
PRMinx whilst id agree with your lasy but about everyone being different it would be nice to have some details to make sense of his post because it doesnt add up at the moment as to why he is findining it so untesting. He supposedly wants an answer.0 -
Agree with robinrows - if you're rowing with the resistance on 10, your arms will get tired v quickly (10 is the equivalent of rowing a big heavy row boat, 4 is like a racing shell). The key to the Concept 2 is technique. See youtube for some videos on how to (and how not to) do it right.
But he's saying he is rowing on 10 and not getting fatigued at all.
PRMinx whilst id agree with your lasy but about everyone being different it would be nice to have some details to make sense of his post because it doesnt add up at the moment as to why he is findining it so untesting. He supposedly wants an answer.
Oh, I agree we need details.
I was just pointing out that you can't throw out arbitrary fitness benchmarks and say one is "easy" while the other is "hard." Because that's relative. And the rower, especially, challenges different people in different ways.
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I hate rowers because they're hard. I couldn't imagine a newb getting on one and not getting a good workout, even with zero technique.
well, except, make sure you aren't using this technique.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-z9lkn3W_M 0 -
The rower will give you the best overall body workout of all the cardio machines and you will burn more per hour.
I will assume its the Concept 2 rower as they are pretty standard in gyms.
You say maximimh resistance which is 10.
So what strokes a minute are you doing?
what pace are you doing?
Whats either the wattage or calorie burn per hour from the meter?
How long is it taking you to row a certain distance?
How far are you rowing in distance and duration?
It sounds fishy and would help if you provided the above information. Rowers are some of the fittest athletes around and they would tell you that the concept provides a full body workout that definitely pushes them.
My suspicion is that you are not pushing yourself hard enough during the drive phase.
Until you provide the information above its hard to say.
It is a Concept 2.
I am approx. 27-30 spm
Calorie burn is about 260 for 5000 meters, which is about 28 minutes.
I did look at videos on the Concept 2 website, but I guess I need to view them again. I don't doubt that it is great exercise; I'm just doing something wrong. I will try lowering resistance0 -
Oh, I agree we need details.
I was just pointing out that you can't throw out arbitrary fitness benchmarks and say one is "easy" while the other is "hard." Because that's relative. And the rower, especially, challenges different people in different ways.
I agree with you absolutely. On the concept forums you get all the real rowers coming on saying oh thats really slow and they just dont get that a time for one person could be flat oyt but becayse they are fitter and stronger they can row faster with less effort. It doesnt add up that hes not out of breath on resistance ten and most likely his strokes are inneficient and hes not putting the effort in. The data would give us better feedback. Thats he nice thing about the rower its that constant feedback of data, although ive come to loathe it at times.0 -
sheldonklein wrote: »The rower will give you the best overall body workout of all the cardio machines and you will burn more per hour.
I will assume its the Concept 2 rower as they are pretty standard in gyms.
You say maximimh resistance which is 10.
So what strokes a minute are you doing?
what pace are you doing?
Whats either the wattage or calorie burn per hour from the meter?
How long is it taking you to row a certain distance?
How far are you rowing in distance and duration?
It sounds fishy and would help if you provided the above information. Rowers are some of the fittest athletes around and they would tell you that the concept provides a full body workout that definitely pushes them.
My suspicion is that you are not pushing yourself hard enough during the drive phase.
Until you provide the information above its hard to say.
It is a Concept 2.
I am approx. 27-30 spm
Calorie burn is about 260 for 5000 meters, which is about 28 minutes.
I did look at videos on the Concept 2 website, but I guess I need to view them again. I don't doubt that it is great exercise; I'm just doing something wrong. I will try lowering resistance
Ok, so you are rowing 500m in just under 3 minutes. Ease the resistance, row faster.0 -
Oh, I agree we need details.
I was just pointing out that you can't throw out arbitrary fitness benchmarks and say one is "easy" while the other is "hard." Because that's relative. And the rower, especially, challenges different people in different ways.
I agree with you absolutely. On the concept forums you get all the real rowers coming on saying oh thats really slow and they just dont get that a time for one person could be flat oyt but becayse they are fitter and stronger they can row faster with less effort. It doesnt add up that hes not out of breath on resistance ten and most likely his strokes are inneficient and hes not putting the effort in. The data would give us better feedback. Thats he nice thing about the rower its that constant feedback of data, although ive come to loathe it at times.
Exactly this. Shorter legs, shorter pull, fitness level...all these things impact rowing. Endurance, too. I'm 5'4. I row a 500m sprint at 1:50. But, if I'm going long, I can hit a rough spot at 2:30. I need to work on my endurance but I'll never have the same time as a 6ft male at a similar level of fitness.
Based on his data, he's going too slow.0 -
MeanderingMammal wrote: »
Yes he doesnt say hes in a gym or not. Its a fair presumption if its a gym then it will be concept as they are pretty much standard. One easy way he can just tell us along with all the other information. It will still boil down to if a not very fit person isnt getting out of breath on max resistance, then it doesnt add up, unless hes not putting enough effort in. The reason for not being out of breath and getting a good workout will then be the person and not the equipment.
He can improve that by pushing and pulling harder in the correct manner as well as rowing either for pace or distance or both.0 -
sheldonklein wrote: »The rower will give you the best overall body workout of all the cardio machines and you will burn more per hour.
I will assume its the Concept 2 rower as they are pretty standard in gyms.
You say maximimh resistance which is 10.
So what strokes a minute are you doing?
what pace are you doing?
Whats either the wattage or calorie burn per hour from the meter?
How long is it taking you to row a certain distance?
How far are you rowing in distance and duration?
It sounds fishy and would help if you provided the above information. Rowers are some of the fittest athletes around and they would tell you that the concept provides a full body workout that definitely pushes them.
My suspicion is that you are not pushing yourself hard enough during the drive phase.
Until you provide the information above its hard to say.
It is a Concept 2.
I am approx. 27-30 spm
Calorie burn is about 260 for 5000 meters, which is about 28 minutes.
I did look at videos on the Concept 2 website, but I guess I need to view them again. I don't doubt that it is great exercise; I'm just doing something wrong. I will try lowering resistance
Yes, lower the damper on the flywheel to 4-6.
If you are on a CII for 28 min and not feeling any effort, I can only think it is your form. Rowing is about 70% legs (drive phase), and the pull/finish should be primarily done by the back (as opposed to the arms). Plus, you need to pull your body forward during the recovery with your feet/legs.
You mentioned that "the machine has it's rhythm". Again, that suggests to me that you are not really driving the stroke, but are pulling more with the arms against a high damper setting.
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There is a lot of info on the concept II website on technique. A few things that might help though. This advice is based on a concept 2 rower, different rowers displays/resistance etc may vary.
Resistance – you don’t need to have it on maximum, and a lot of rowers have it much lower. Look it up on concept II website – it’s quite a long topic!
There’s a lot of discussion in concept 2 on pace. I have found I tend to settle to a pace around 30 spm (there are plenty who advocate a lower pace). However, you can row at 30 spm and take it easy, and row at the same pace and be completely exhausted. The key is the legs, and the amount of effort you put into the stroke.
So, row at you normal pace, but look at the 500m pace indicator. Taking it easy it will be high, say 2:30 min per 500m. Now row at the same pace and concentrate on pushing with your legs. You should see the 500m pace come down, and the sweat starting!
I hope this helps.
This is all relative, though. I row faster than a 2:30/500m pace, but I've been incorporating rowing into my routine for more than a year. But, there was a time when 2:30 was what I did. And, if I'm rowing 2,000m, I'll probably hit a 2:30 pace somewhere in there.
You can't really arbitrarily throw out a time pace and say that it's "taking it easy" because it may not be depending on the experience and fitness of the rower.
Good point.
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sheldonklein wrote: »
It is a Concept 2.
I am approx. 27-30 spm
Calorie burn is about 260 for 5000 meters, which is about 28 minutes.
I did look at videos on the Concept 2 website, but I guess I need to view them again. I don't doubt that it is great exercise; I'm just doing something wrong. I will try lowering resistance
Ok sorry I missed your post with the details as it was roughly the same time as my last post. Notwithstanding the fact of what PRMinx said, we are all different and its only your personal targets that matter and not what other people do.
One of the things I spent the first two weeks doing is focusing on form, in fact you are focusing on form the whole time to be as efficient as possible, which means more speed and better times. If you watch in the gym then compared to the video on the concept site many people exhibit the common faults. Look at the videos on the concept site. People are alwaus looking for the perfect stroke. You cna tell where it all comes together based on you converting most of your energy to reflect on the monitor and pace.
What it suggests to me is that your stroke is innefficient and you arent putting enough effort into the drive part of the stroke, that us pushing off with your feet and then transferring it into your upper body as you pull back with your arms/back. the videos show you what you should be doing and then its practice.
Id agree with Azdak to lower the setting to 4-6 (I used 5 and then 6 and am now on 7) and then practice your stroke. Id maybe lower your sytokes down to 22-24 pm then really push off with the feet. The recovery phase should be about 2x the drive phase, which is where all the effort goes in. Its this part of the stroke where I dont think you are working hard enough at each stroke and that translates into you not feeling fatigued and its reflected in your time. You might also find your stroke isnt a full one, which means its less effective.
As you get stronger and more experienced then you cna raise the seting if needed. have a look at the watts for each stroke and that gives you an idea of how much energy you are exerting. The importnat stat to look at is the pace per 500m imo as well as your time for your 5000m if thats what you intend to row. You should improve week on week and you should be aiming to improve your pace, so try soemthing like a few seconds a fortnight or week faster. At some stage you will be exerting yourself enough that you will feel fatigued.
Play it safe at first and make sue your heart cna take it but thn gradually increase and maintain pace so you know when you are pushing yourself. You will get stronger and faster, so its always useful to take a pen and paper and note down the key details from each row and then chart them or enter them onto the concept site. Your aim should be to be at least as good as last time or to improve week on week. theres lots of advice on the concept site plus exercises you cna do if you get bored with straight distance. You will soon start to build up a sweat, but focus on form at the start and then youll find it easier to improve later.0 -
Thanks for excellent advice.0
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There is a lot of info on the concept II website on technique. A few things that might help though. This advice is based on a concept 2 rower, different rowers displays/resistance etc may vary.
Resistance – you don’t need to have it on maximum, and a lot of rowers have it much lower. Look it up on concept II website – it’s quite a long topic!
There’s a lot of discussion in concept 2 on pace. I have found I tend to settle to a pace around 30 spm (there are plenty who advocate a lower pace). However, you can row at 30 spm and take it easy, and row at the same pace and be completely exhausted. The key is the legs, and the amount of effort you put into the stroke.
So, row at you normal pace, but look at the 500m pace indicator. Taking it easy it will be high, say 2:30 min per 500m. Now row at the same pace and concentrate on pushing with your legs. You should see the 500m pace come down, and the sweat starting!
I hope this helps.
This is all relative, though. I row faster than a 2:30/500m pace, but I've been incorporating rowing into my routine for more than a year. But, there was a time when 2:30 was what I did. And, if I'm rowing 2,000m, I'll probably hit a 2:30 pace somewhere in there.
You can't really arbitrarily throw out a time pace and say that it's "taking it easy" because it may not be depending on the experience and fitness of the rower.
Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear, 2:30 was just an example of the 500m pace hence the "say", all I was trying to indicate was that you need to look at the 500m pace and then compare your "normal" rowing to when you put effort in, particularly with the legs.
I don't do 2:30 pace btw
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Bump0
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I belong to a rowing club. We were taught to use the damper on 4 as that is similar to racing conditions, and a stroke rate of around 22 spm. Counting one for the stroke and coming up the slide for a count of three leads to good boat run.
I have seen a lot of people in gyms using poor form, so I would suggest you ensure your form is correct to avoid injury and get the best out of your workout. Finally the 500 split time is the thing I try to improve each time. For me, 2:30/500m is comfortable when rowing 5-6km.
I use a HRM to keep me honest.0 -
HelenWater wrote: »I belong to a rowing club. We were taught to use the damper on 4 as that is similar to racing conditions, and a stroke rate of around 22 spm. Counting one for the stroke and coming up the slide for a count of three leads to good boat run.
I have seen a lot of people in gyms using poor form, so I would suggest you ensure your form is correct to avoid injury and get the best out of your workout. Finally the 500 split time is the thing I try to improve each time. For me, 2:30/500m is comfortable when rowing 5-6km.
I use a HRM to keep me honest.
Thanks. Very helpful. I guess I'll get the hang of it eventually.0 -
I read rowing, as Rowling and got seriously offended. #potterhead.0
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rowing strapless will also help your form. This forces you to drive with the legs0
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Strapless, add in no foot strap? How do to pull / slide yourself forward?0
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Well, I tried it again, tried to follow the advice, and I'm still not getting it. I think I'm going back to other machines until I csn get some coaching.
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sheldonklein wrote: »Strapless, add in no foot strap? How do to pull / slide yourself forward?
leg power. if you aren't able to pull the cable back strapless then you aren't engaging your legs properly.You need to drive harder at the catch using just leg muscles.0
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